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ars4326 wrote:
could it be used to retrieve lip #6 as you continue through the level?
I tested that earlier, but seeing as you lose your beak during that time, which is the fastest mode of travel, it actually turned out to be slower by.. 20 frames or so. I'll go back and recheck that. Also, the grass "stairs" are time consuming to climb, and I'd have to climb them if I boomerang'd #6. As far as directions, there are only 2, left and right. You can't throw it diagonally. However when it returns to you it must go diagonally so that's something to consider too.
I messed around with the ending section, and cut off 18 more frames. Here's that file if anyone is interested:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/9cw4f62ejc5cqcx/Exxonym_Hachiemon_hard3.3.bk2
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So this Japanese only game I came across seems like a nice game to TAS. There are quite a few variations of movement, so optimizing the game completely is pretty hard. That makes it interesting (at least to me) to TAS.
The games difficulty affects how many "lips" you have to collect in each level, as well as how many enemies there are. You have to collect at least 11 out of the first stage, and there are a total of 13. Which means I can omit two.
I did the first stage several times, and I think I've found which 11 I want to get. Tell me what you think. (Userfiles still being a pain, so mediafire it is)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/b40srrshbpd0dmq/Exxonym_Hachiemon_hard3.bk2
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There were 2 topics for this game, so I went with the one that had a posted WIP.
I experimented with this game last night, and after watching funkdocs SDA run, I noticed that something that makes the game a little bit faster might ruin the run for some people. It's a trick involving holding the charge on smart bombs, which can damage enemies, meaning I can kill them slightly faster to bypass them. Unfortunately it comes with a noise that drowns out the music, and cancels all other sound effects, and it's very annoying.
But anyway I did the first few levels. Posting on mediafire, because the userfiles seems to be taking a dump.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/2boz8pblrvvbt85/JimPower_test1.bk2
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So I finished the test run, and there are some sloppy moments for now, but would be easily fixed on a serious TAS playthrough. For now I'll post what I know that needs to be fixed, and you can see the full game, somewhat fast.
- Take the left route in 1-4, around the seesaw sections. Using the ropes is probably faster because it's closer to where I need to be to pick up the rock.
- More playaround in the autoscrollers. I didn't spend much time making the first and second autoscrollers interesting. In the world 2 autoscroller, I'm pretty sure you can manage to get throw that rock all the way to the end, which would be a little more entertaining.
- Staying on the leaves longer in 1-3 might be faster, at least for the ones that fall to the right. I believe it adds your speed to the leafs speed, but it doesn't show that in the RAM for flink's speed for some reason.
- Use the level transition trick on the overworld map on all the stages up to 2-3, in which I first figured it out.
- Didn't realize on the first run through of 2-5 that you could pick that platform up while it's falling instead of waiting around for it to slowly drift into place. I also didn't spend any time optimizing it on the 2nd visit to the stage.
- The platform spell I made is completely unnecessary. There is no point in the game where you need to get that high, nor is there anywhere that it would create a big enough shortcut, considering how long it takes to make a spell and cast it. Also, you can't get the tiger's eye until cloud stage 1 or mountain stage 5, which is very late in the game, so that minimizes areas it could be used. You only need the shrink spell and the ghost spell to complete the game.
- The gorilla boss in the Old Apple Tree world can most likely be manipulated to never jump across the screen, and in fact stand in place to make the fruits fall. In fact, I found that different inputs will affect where the throwable fruit will fall, and having it fall closest to him, at least for the last hit, will be most effective. I also thought about possibly leading on the little health items that fly towards you when you hit the boss, and try to avoid all of them until the fight was over. I'm not sure if that's possible but would be more entertaining.
- Might be possible to do the seesaw section a little faster, in the first world. I didn't spend too much time on it, but I did look for a super jump trick involving them for a while, with no luck.
- Boss Fights in general. First boss fight might be able to be a little bit faster, or at least a little bit more entertaining. For example, could keep both rocks inside his stilts until the fight is over. Second boss can possibly be killed in one cycle, I didn't spend hardly any time investigating though.
- Handling of the throwable raft in world 2 can be better.
- There are probably many more small optimizations here and there that can be made.
To be honest I don't even know if this game deserves it. Even with all the improvements, it's still a slow paced game, and I think that would turn off most people. I don't know if I'll ever completely optimize it. Although it does have very nice graphics.
Well here's the unoptimized version anyway:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16990286074110489
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The link no longer works for me, and I was interested seeing how your test looked. Do you happen to still have the gmv by any chance? Just wondering cause the game was on my list of "maybe TASable." Seeing a test would give a good impression of how entertaining it is to watch, without wasting time doing it myself.
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If it's at all possible, you might consider canceling your submission that's still on the workbench and resubmitting the improved version. 3 minutes is such a large improvement, I think it should be a whole new submission, especially since the other one has already been accepted.
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jlun2 wrote:
The minute of item flying made stage 7 look tolerable in comparison
Yeah, I knew this would cause boredom for most viewers. The stage was very bland and they included nothing to dodge. If they just added something that hurt you like in the first bonus stage you could end it early, but they added nothing. Then to top it off, there's a relatively boring autoscroller right afterwards. Bad game design there in my opinion, so I respect your vote.
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So tonight I decided to continue the test run of this a little bit. Completed up to 2-3 and I've found a timesaver on level transition. Turns out if you just press a button to go to the current level flink is standing on, and THEN pressing the direction towards the new level, it skips him slowly floating to the new level on the map. I didn't use it up until the 2-3 transition, but it's something to do when doing a completely optimized version.
Here is some other info I found out, you need to beat all of the bosses in the game to open up the final boss. To do this, you need to make 3 magic spells:
Shrink (allows you to enter the Old Apple Tree stages)
Ingredients: Magic mirror, magic necklace, magic amulet
This spell is the reason I grabbed the magic necklace from the guy in 2-2, as it is the only level you can get it. Magic mirror and magic amulet can be obtained from 2-3, which is an autoscroller. Edit: I just noticed I grabbed the magic mirror instead of the magic necklace in 2-2.. Time to go back.
Ghost
Ingredients: Skull, Goblin's tooth, Magic Root.
all of these items can be found later
Platform
Ingredients: Eagle's Feather, Tiger's eye, eagle's feather
I'm not even sure if you actually NEED this one, the longplay I watched used it near the end of the game, but it looked like frame precise movements might be able to bypass it. I haven't gotten that far so I have no idea. If I need it it will probably be best to grab an eagle's feather in the first world.RT-55J wrote:
Have you tried to see if jumping while not holding forward works?
I did. Unfortunately no matter what you do, you lose your speed over time.
Aside from the room transition trick I just found, I know there are at least a couple places that can be improved, but will worry about that later on the rerun.
Here's the newest file up to 2-3:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16881308928444540http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16899943890784112
Fixed to get the magic necklace instead of the magic mirror.
Edit2: Okay, apparently the GameFAQ guide lied to me. You don't get magic mirror and magic amulet on 2-3 autoscroller. Instead you get Magic necklace and magic amulet. This makes collecting the magic necklace in 2-2 unnecessary, but I'll leave it in for the test run, and fix it later. The FAQ says there's an enemy carrying a magic mirror in 2-4, so I'll have to pick it up there for the time being to avoid backtracking. Who knows if it's even correct though, we'll see..
Yet another edit: Well ignore all the above... I forgot I still had my old save file from when I accidentally collected the magic mirror, which is in fact actually the correct decision.
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Dooty wrote:
1)The swimming animation is what cancels the damage animation.
Indeed, and the only other place I could find that you can cancel the damage animation was the second boss. That's only because the blocks are moving beneath you, and on the first bounce it puts you on top of the block, canceling the animation a few frames short.
I tried to find a way to skip the bonus stages, but it seems inevitable. I really wanted to skip at least the Stage 6 bonus stage.
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I went back and tested the first world pretty thoroughly. I found 2 instances where the clipping glitch can be used. Skips the whole tube riding section for the first clip, and I'm happy about that. That saves... around 611 frames of useless tube riding. I used the same drop down method into the little hole to position the block in the next room. It's way faster than setting it up the other way, in which I'd have to wait for the guy carrying the block so that I could get high enough.
Second improvement comes from the boss in Stage 2. I found that there is one frame at the beginning where you can jump, and I use this to jump up into the boss on the right. I also found that if I position myself just right, I can land on the conveyor belt and when the damage animation bounces up, it immediately changes back to normal animation on the block, effectively cancelling a few frames of damaged animation. Damaging myself is necessary as I have to suction to the ceiling to do the instakill trick. Also I position the blocks so that I perform the stage complete dance in the air. This actually wastes 2 frames, but I think it's worth it for entertainment value.
That's it so far, here are the first 2 worlds, in final form.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16681206809144819
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I've found a useful place to use a recently discovered glitch involving blocks and the vacuum. I haven't optimized it perfectly just yet, but it clips through to the boss, saving about 400-500 frames (estimate). Setting up the glitch to go through to the right is a little more difficult than the left, probably because of the way it's coded. It's still possible, it just takes more setup.
Not including this glitch I've saved ~19 frames over my previous run so far.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16516528748322063
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Another night with too much free time. I started working on yet another game, and still haven't worked on the other ones I started a long time ago. All of them are just vault-worthy games though, including this one.
So Flink is a game I'm not sure many people know about. That's what I tend to TAS the most, so that people can see the game they've never heard of, or bothered to play. I'll most likely be posting way too much info about this game, and probably end up quitting, but I'll leave the info here for future reference.
00FFC7EF - xspeed
00FFC7F0 - xsub
00FFC7F3 - yspeed
00FFC7F4 - ysub
00FFC7E7 - xpos
00FFC7EB - ypos
I haven't tested these RAM addresses for the second world. Some games like to switch up the addresses for different levels, and make you do more work than you want to (Radical Rex).
The character moves rather slowly, but if you jump you can reach the normal running speed of 2, yes 2, much faster. Going down slopes is necessary but I haven't found a way to preserve your complete downhill speed. You lose speed over time if you keep running (even when jumping).
There are a couple areas where it seems to be a few pixels away from making a jump. In 1-2 the gap where you have to hang on to a vine is just such a jump. After going down the slope jumping almost reaches the ledge below, but I have found no way to do any boosting to your jump height, or run speed.
Tricks so far:
- Jumping at the end of the stage allows him to exit the top of the screen faster.
- Damage boosting.
.. That's about it so far. The game seems to be pretty well made.
I get a bit sloppy at the end, but it's okay for a test run. I made no attempt at really optimizing the boss fight. I'll do it right when I learn more about the game. The game has a magic system where you can use abilities after you mix ingredients. I haven't even began to experiment to see what these do. It's probably something I should consider looking into. Seems important.
By the way, I'm using Gens11a, cause I'm too lazy to mess with bizhawk.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16392392711089938
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I'm glad to see this game on the workbench, but I have some wellfounded concerns.
I posted on the Boogerman thread a while back a short WIP of the first 3 levels with some information that I think you could have used here.
First of all, jumping on trampolines slows you down, and you seem to jump on quite a lot of them for no real reason.
Secondly, gathering too many plungers increases your time in the bonus screen. For example at the end of stage 1-2, I was 76 frames ahead. But because I only collected one plunger for that level, and you collected 8, I was able to start 1-3 119 frames ahead.
Finally I stated that the fire powerup causes more damage to enemies/bosses that you don't seem to have used. I think you could cut down considerably on the time by using this powerup.
Another thing to note; you might want to add different things to make the movie entertaining. For example, I found that you can slide on branches with a stuck animation, while not losing any speed.
I'm only saying this so that maybe you will improve the run, a game in which I really want to see done.
As for right now I won't vote, but I have no intention of doing the run myself because I have concerns about the ROM. Various glitches occurred when I tried to do this myself. But I do wish you good luck on improving this game!
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Here are the first 2 levels. The second level boss is a revision, as I tested up to about level 6, and then realized bosses can be damaged with suction to a ceiling or wall. I then thought, well the second boss(es) have a ceiling, perhaps it could be used there. I was right, and in dramatic fashion the bosses died even quicker than I thought. Still using lsnes.
http://www.2shared.com/file/3shKTx56/Exxonym_Jetsons_level2bossfix_.html
[B]NOTE[/b]: The SECOND download button is the correct one, the first gigantic one is to something else and I hate that they try to sucker you into it. Go for the smaller one.
There's also something I noticed in this game; After the third, fourth, and sixth levels there are bonus stages. I'm not sure what triggers them or if anything even does, but it would be nice to skip them. However after watching a LP on youtube, I have come to believe they are there no matter what you do. Sad because the one after the 6th level goes on for quite a long time (there's no way to end it early like the other ones).
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Hola, TASvideos. I found this game and thought it might be entertaining, so I did a test run of the first stage up to the first boss. I didn't beat the boss yet, because I need some help finding RAM addresses (HP mainly).
Anyways, there are a couple tiny tricks I've discovered already, but I feel like there should be some kind of glitch in this game that can be abused. I haven't found one yet. Here is what I found out so far:
- Pressing duck for one frame before jumping, allows you to jump slightly lower than the minimum jump height. This is used to jump off of the switches to open the doors so I can enter the door quicker.
- Turning around and suctioning to the ceiling at just the right spot allows you to jump up. This is used in one place near the beginning.
- Suctioning to the ceiling but letting go before you actually stick to it is a good way to reach ledges without having to stop completely to climb the walls.
- in one place, there is a block that is kind of in the way of a button, and I found that if you press suction briefly during the right frame while jumping, the block just falls through the floor.
- in the section where you have to slide under a low ceiling and suction yourself to the other side, I found it faster to just let yourself slide a bit longer and dont use the suction at all. George can actually start walking while still in the wall.
- Pressing duck on the right frame before room transitions causes it to transition faster.
- You can pull enemies and objects through the ceiling if it's small enough. I haven't found any use for this yet though. Also, you can put enemies into the floor by ducking and repeated suctioning.
Now, I have found the x speed and y speed, but for some reason I cannot find the x and y positions. Usually it's easy, I must be doing something wrong. Also, if there is a subspeed I haven't found it either. X and Y positions would be particularly useful I think, if I, or someone, can find them.
Emulator used: Bizhawk 1.4.0
I used Bizhawk but unfortunately when playing back the movie I only get about 45 fps, so I can't get an accurate opinion on how fast the game looks, without a proper encode...
All in all I think this is a good candidate for a TAS, even with the long boring tube rides. I believe the game has 7 levels based on stuff I watched on youtube, but I'm not entirely sure. Any thoughts on this?
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/389753327/Exxonym_JetsonsTEST1.bkm
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Some of the improvements were definitely not what I expected :O. But it is an otherwise nice improvement, and gets my yes vote!
As to what games to work on, I have a list of genesis games:
Flink
Zool
Socket
The Ottifants
Cool Spot
3 ninjas kick back
Blades of Vengeance
Legend of Galahad
Chiki Chiki Boys
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Well, since Snes9x is going to be deprecated, I'll just post what I had of this game. I really have little interest in TAS'ing at the moment so I haven't gotten very far since last time. It's up to part-way through 2-2. Obviously there are room for improvements so if I ever pick this back up on lsnes, it will most likely be improved.
Just a note, these space levels will be very hard to optimize perfectly because in some cases you'll want to push the person just enough to be in the right position when you come back down from the level (if you know what I mean). Getting the timing perfect will require lots of rerecords and frustration.
Here's the Snes9x file for anyone curious as to what the game will look like so far:
http://www.mediafire.com/?x88gez2owuy1qef
