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http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/45582566634888137Link to video
Ends after Zombor.
This WIP contains the first two dupping sessions. During the second dupping session, I somehow got around 90 invisible Magic Tabs. I don't know how this happened, but I'm not gonna complain. :P
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http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/45193133605920554
I changed the default ("None") mode to battle mode. This mode displays the battle RNG graph from FractalFusion's script.
I also made the "Next Encounter" mode display the stats for the stationary Pokemon generated by current RNG. It should work for all scripted encounters and maybe fishing as well. However, it does not work for gift Pokemon, including starters.
Edit: Descriptions are added to the natures.
I updated the Pokemon data lua again: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/45193606014900979
It's now possible to switch between modes by clicking on the arrows. The colors that show buffs and debuffs due to nature are changed to match the colors used in Gen 5+ games.
Edit 2: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/45209523159510745
Now the Pokemon data lua can read Gen 4 glitch Pokemon data when you turn the safe mode off.
Fortranm wrote:
Where could "L=A" save time? I haven't thought of it yet.
For instance, every time you use an item from the menu, you would need to wait for one non-lag frame before you can press A another time. This wouldn't happen if "L=A" is chosen.
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Thanks a lot. RNG graphs don't scroll at all during the battle in Pt, but that's just how it works in Pt probably because the RNG doesn't scroll at all. I suppose battle RNG is independent in Plat? Would be good if that can be figured out and a line of texted added in the lua to tell about crits and ranges in the current turn.
So you removed the "Next Encounter" function? I'll see if I can combine that with your script, and maybe add a new function to tell the stats of event Pokemon (starter, legendary, etc) generated via current RNG.
Another thing is that in current any%, button mode is not switched to "L=A", which can save some frames during menuing.
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FractalFusion wrote:
Thanks for the Lua updates. By the way, do you have a Lua script that indicates where critical hits and misses are? I have one, though it is more of a hack of the RNG Lua script than anything else.
It would be very helpful if you upload your script with crit. hits and misses detection. Thank you very much.
FractalFusion wrote:
- Since Jupiter's Skuntank cannot be defeated in one move without using Blaze (even with Atk+ and PKRS), it is better to have Gardenia's Roserade use Magical Leaf to take Monferno down to low health. It is also faster than burning Skuntank to KO it.
I made Monferno get poisoned during Gardenia fight in my glitchless run because it speeds up many upcoming battles. I'm not sure if it's worthy for Jupiter fight alone.
FractalFusion wrote:
I'm currently looking at doing a J version of mkdasher's run for fun, but it will take some time. I'll probably do the U version later.
My J version "all bosses" run will have the exact same route as any% until Jubilife or after the first rival battle. We can work on this part together if you would like to. My run can probably benefit from PKRS though.
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FractalFusion wrote:
BTW, if you want Lua scripts for Japanese versions, I can make them for you. I have one for Diamond J so far (since I wanted to see what a run on the J version looks like) and it shouldn't be too hard to get the addresses for Pearl J as well.
Thank you very much, but I'll try to convert MKDasher's scripts first later on. Also, his scripts for Pearl work just fine on Diamond so I suppose they have same RAM addresses for most stuff.
I'll wait for a while to see how the research on the trainer summoning glitch turns out, and make a run on early Japanese release with Darkrai or Arceus to see how it turns out. Whatever the goal choice is, it won't include Battle Tower this time. At first I thought winning 49 battles in Battle Tower in a reasonable time has some novelty because that's almost unthinkable for RTA and it would feature many opponent Pokemon that are usually never seen in a speedrun, but it sure turns out to be tedious to watch. :/
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Well, to be honest, I saw this coming, and that's why I reserved a "Possible alternative routes and goal choices" section in the comments. :P
First of all, one of my goal is to show more complex and potentially mind-blowing application of the void glitch. Sure, biking in the void gets old really quick, but I do believe the effects of certain application of the void can be interesting to watch and as a matter of fact, are not well known and never being featured in a speedrun. This is one of the reasons I don't think a run of a similar category on Platinum would look better. The other reason is that such a run on Platinum would repeat even more content from an any% Platinum run, which is a direct result of the not having the void glitch.
I have a few alternative goal choices in mind, please tell me which one do you think work the best:
1. Significantly reduce the goals - all badges
If the goal is reduced to all badges, the time spent in the void would be significantly reduced, and there wouldn't be a need to do Battle Tower at all.
2. Slightly alter the goals - redefine "boss battles"
Another similar alternative is to redefine boss battles as the battles that have a special intro and thus cut the rival and Palmer(and therefore Battle Tower) out, or just cut Palmer out, really.
3. Expand the goals - including all legendaries with special BGM
As suggested by ThunderAxe31, certain legendaries have non standard battle theme, and they can meet the definition of bosses as well. To catch Heatran, I'll actually have to complete the Sinnoh Pokedex by fighting more NPCs to see all 150 Pokemon, and thus meeting the "traditional full completion" goal. If I have to complete the Pokedex anyway, I might also send the titans from a RSE rom to activate Regigigas. I'm not sure if Desmume 0.9.9 can handle recording with existing GBA save file though.
Either way, the run might look a little better if it's done on Japanese version. There will be more trips to the void, but each of them will probably be shorter. The best of all for some people, I'll probably use Darkrai as the main battle Pokemon in this case.
Another thing worth mentioning is that someone in Hall of Origin discord server is trying to figure out a glitch that can potentially allow summoning specific trainers in daycare(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7zsSZxR8uw). If it turns out to be possible to summon Palmer via this glitch, it would be fantastic. It's still hard to say where will this glitch lead at this point though.
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AFAIK, no. For the other questions, I don't really know the details either.
---------------------------------------------
Link to video
Now the "all bosses" run uses MKDasher's any% input up until getting the bike. This WIP contains everything after getting the bike up to entering Battle Tower.
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jlun2 wrote:
Hey, just curious. If it's possible to "magically" trigger Arceus with the void glitch, would it be possible to trigger other pokemon such as Regigagas WITHOUT needed requirements? Same with Heatran.
Here is how it works for Arceus: https://forums.glitchcity.info/index.php?topic=7770.0
The short answer is no. I suppose there is only one script that activates the Regigagas battle, and it always checks whether you have the 3 titans.
Heatran actually won't appear in the room unless you have Nationaldex, and AFAIK its script cannot be activated with RETIRE (yet, at least).
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grassini wrote:
Since there's no thread for HGSS, i just wanted to point out Facade is an available TM42 in the Goldenrod Department Store lottery (Friday only), not feasible for RTA but definitely for a TAS.
Actually, there is a post for HGSS: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9485
I doubt paralysis abuse would work well for HGSS though.
----------------------------------------------
Link to videohttp://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/44595031701342507
Thanks to new discoveries, I decided to continue working on the completionist run I started in early 2016. However, the goal is changed to just beating all bosses because Heatran actually won't appear before you get Nationaldex, and simply encountering all legendaries and catching them would get old really quick anyway.
Arceus is caught to be the main fighter. This WIP stops after getting HM05 Surf.
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You are probably using a wrong ROM if anti-piracy is in effect.
The best choice for TASing is Desmume 0.9.9 at this point. While Desmume 0.9.11 is probably more accurate overall, TASes made with 0.9.11 are hard to sync due to SRAM issues.
I know the RTA runs end after the Ghetsis fight, but IMHO defeating the (supposedly) hardest boss that rolls credits is the better ending point when you don't need to do anything different before rolling credits for the first time, and that's how it works for Johto games.
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https://www.speedrun.com/pkmnbw1/thread/iia5e
It's probably faster to use Tepig line all the way to the end for this game. I think it would be good to make becoming the champion the end point of the run, like Kaphotics's run did, since defeating Red is considered the end point of G/S/C/HG/SS runs.
You might find Masterjun's Black 2 WIP(http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/44378127928492667) helpful, although I can't sync it.
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It has been said that Vault does not allow dirty SRAM.
However, if I make a Castlevania Portrait of Ruin Sister Mode run that starts from clean SRAM(parts of mtbRc's input might be used), would it be eligible for Vault?
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Alyosha wrote:
I have just committed some major improvements to Gambatte from gifvex (mcmaeve on github.)
The improvement fix Pinball Fantasies on Gambatte, restore BIOS support (and make it mandatory), restores ability to play GB games in GBC mode, and make a few other small accuracy improvements.
These improvements should help in creating some runs that work on console. If anyone is interested please try out the dev build.
Is it now possible to use GBC bios under CGB on GBA mode? I know the actual bios is still not dumped, but is the hacky solution from Gamebatte Speedrun included?
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It's probably a better idea to start the run from clean SRAM because you can collect certain A coins before beating 7-2 for the first time and then go back to those stages to collect eggs.
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FractalFusion wrote:
Fortranm: I did some testing, and I am nearly 100% sure that whether Quick Claw works or not is determined at the beginning of the previous round of turns after you select your move; e.g. if you want to manipulate Quick Claw for round n, you have to time selecting your move for round n-1. I didn't test for the first round but I think it should be determined at some point after entering battle.
Just something in case you're making more Diamond/Pearl TASes. It does make manipulation more difficult though (since it occurs at the same time as manipulating the first move of a round for crit/range/miss).
Thanks for the information!
Quick Claw wouldn't be useful for "no save/reset" with Kazza route since Kazza will need to hold Zap Plate during late game. The same goes for any% glitchless with Chimchar/Dialga route for similar reasons.
If there is any chance that Machop/Machoke is used for any categories with the classical Guts abuse, you would need to manipulate Quick Claw for next turn while manipulating paralysis or/and critical hit for the current turn at the same time. Such route would probably be unfeasible unless the run is made with a bot.
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FractalFusion wrote:
- Needing to trigger the ! on both trainers, as opposed to talking to them.
- Extra dialogs from having two Pokemon gain experience after each KO.
- Time spent because of the weaker Pokemon leveling.
- Potential experience lost from main battler.
- Extra time from needing to select target.
- When opponent trainers have differing numbers of Pokemon, needing the weaker Pokemon to waste time somehow when there is no target.
- In this TAS, extra messages from things like Gyarados's Intimidate (affects both Pokemon) and Croagunk's Anticipation (because of weaker Pokemon having Flying moves).
- Possibly more delays (critical hit, super effective) from needing the weaker Pokemon to KO enemy in one hit.
These are good points. My impression that doing double battles is faster comes from my experience of making the testrun back in 2015. I didn't know much about micro-optimization back then so the result of comparison might not be very accurate.
When opponent trainers have differing numbers of Pokemon, needing the weaker Pokemon to waste time somehow when there is no target.
This is not an serious issue in this run since most of double battles involve trainers with the same number of Pokemon. The fact that Murkrow knows Fly also helps.
Edit: Actually, the only double battle in this run involving trainers with different numbers of Pokemon is the one at Lake Verity, and this one is mandatory.
Another note worthy thing is that the PP for Fire Wheel is scarce. If I do as many single battles as possible, I probably will need to pick up one more Ether at Mt. Coronet. Doing this might allow me to save a few crits by using Fire Wheel more often at Mt. Coronet though, so the total net effect is hard to estimate.
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FractalFusion wrote:
In addition, the number of forced trainer battles is ridiculous. There are 97 forced trainer battles in this game (counting double battles as 2); more than the main-game of any game prior (except maybe Pokemon Crystal, which I didn't check). This is nearly twice that of Ruby/Sapphire.
I'm almost sure that Crystal has less forced trainers than Gold/Silver, but this is kinda off-topic. :P
FractalFusion wrote:
So, this is why I prefer a shorter and more glitched version over a TAS which is not glitched and over 3 hours long. Strangely, Platinum has far smaller message delay, so it is theoretically possible a Platinum glitchless run could beat this TAS on time despite having more content.
Platinum glitchless RTA WR is literally 2 secs shorter than that of D/P, so you are probably correct.
However, I think D/P deserves a glitchless TAS more than Pt does because you can't skip as much of the game play as you can in D/P. Another note worthy thing is that in Pokemon games starting from Pt (and up to the end of Gen 5, at least), battle RNG does not scroll automatically once a battle starts. Therefore D/P is the last Pokemon game(TASable game, anyway) in which you can rely on getting a crit for every move you use. You will need to rely more on natural type effectiveness starting in Pt.
FractalFusion wrote:
It doesn't help that the submission text lacks some details that I wish were explained. Like, why was the Chimchar line used unlike the other TAS where Kazza (the traded Abra/Kadabra) does very well? Were there other Pokemon early in the game that could be used except that the Chimchar line is simply better? Would Quick Claw have helped with this TAS? ("We don't know how to manipulate it" is not a good excuse.)
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/30445013993013368
Kazza wouldn't be faster for glitchless, and you can see this testrun from 2016 for reference(there is little to none micro-optimization in that run though). Needless to say, trading takes a long time, and leveling up more often means more time is spent on texts. Kazza is faster for "no save/reset" mostly because you get much less exp due to skipping a large portion of the game.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/42817382838721960
This is the testrun I mentioned in the submission text of "the other TAS". Machop is used until getting the bike, and this is when I tried to manipulate Quick Claw and fail. Machop, the classical OHKO machine from Gen 3, is available before the very first gym, but it won't be as useful as it was back then since Facade is not available as a TM until post-game even if Quick Claw pattern can be manipulated effectively.
In the end, the best choice for main battle Pokemon at this point is Chimchar line.
As a side note, Chimchar can learn Facade at Lv.31, but it's not worthy to keep Chimchar unevolved until Lv.31.
For the route being used in this run, it's not worthy to get Quick Claw if I can't activate it whenever I need it.
FractalFusion wrote:
Is it really not faster to do two single battles in place of double battles whenever possible? Is it possible to use Potions at a different time (possibly to avoid low HP alarm) or find better ways of manipulating HP that avoid using Potions? Things like that.
I'm kinda sure that doing double battles is faster when each of your moves can KO an enemy, and that's what happened in the run.
Since there are only two manual HP refill in the run, they can't really help solving the noise issue. It's not very feasible to actively keep your health between 1/5 and 1/3 mark.
I actually did use the berry a little early than necessary and use a Repel at the same time since I would have to waste time manipulating encounters any way.
FractalFusion wrote:
You state "there is no known way to effectively manipulate Quick Claw pattern" based on posts from six years ago. 1) Just because it wasn't known six years ago doesn't mean it isn't known now. 2) Just because we didn't know how (or maybe we didn't try hard enough) doesn't mean others don't know how.
It is unclear how exactly the claim (as it is worded) would prove a video-only TAS to be illegitimate anyway.
I admit that the way I worded it might be a little rude, but my point stands. While a TAS without input file is not automatically illegitimized, it can seem fishy sometimes, to say the least, especially when how certain things are done are not explained. I'm not very sure about how often would Piplup line be outspeeded without the help of Quick Claw, but there is no way to tell if the author of the run simply used RAM hack to give the starter a very high speed value to outspeed all opponents.
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Thanks for the comments. The submission texts are completed and a temp encode is added. I changed the branch name to "glitchless" because that's the most descriptive one afterall.
Zowayix wrote:
I don't like "no save/reset" for the middle one because save/reset can be used for non-glitch stuff totally unrelated to the void. "Warpless" or "no glitch warps" would be preferred.
Maybe, but "no save/reset" should work for now since I did avoid saving and resetting in that run.
