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kuja killer wrote:
Just in case you do not know about this:
http://www.romhacking.net/docs/363/
This may help you out as it got all the info you could ever wish for of every single RAM address description and all that stuff, for mm4. :)
Very nice demonstration! This is why it's important to do drillman early on in the run ;). I think a new megaman 4 movie could turn out really interesting :)
Thanks! I just kinda blazed through it! I wasn't really going for optimization. Also note how I called it stage 07 (that's Skull Man's level identification number which can be found in hex address 0022).
I can see this run being under 33:00 minutes now! :D
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Baxter wrote:
mega_man_3 wrote:
Thanks! I worked really hard on it! Also, check out this demonstration run of the boss on Stage 1 of Dr. Cossack's fortress!
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/946915054/mega_man_3-Mega%20Man%204%20%28U%29-demo1.fm2
I learned that you can perform the Rush Jet zipping glitch while sliding into an enemy (you don't have to face the other way). Also, during the fortress bosses if you unpause at a certain time the boss will explode while the ending music plays!
Haha, very nice. In our wip, we were actually planning to do drillman after brightman, so that we could use that rushjet glitch more (drillman can be killed with pharaohshot quite fast). It definately will save time at the start of skullman's level, but maybe also at a lot of other places!
Awesome huh? I found a lot more time savers when I was playing through this game, such as switching weapons after entering the boss room and falling onto the floor like in Toad Man's stage (as demonstrated in the WIP). With our cool techniques, we can save not just one but TWO minutes off of the old Mega Man 4 run!
Also, I tried downloading your WIP but it comes up as just a text document. How do you convert it to a FM2 movie?
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Thanks! I worked really hard on it! Also, check out this demonstration run of the boss on Stage 1 of Dr. Cossack's fortress!
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/946915054/mega_man_3-Mega%20Man%204%20%28U%29-demo1.fm2
I learned that you can perform the Rush Jet zipping glitch while sliding into an enemy (you don't have to face the other way). Also, during the fortress bosses if you unpause at a certain time the boss will explode while the ending music plays!
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That TAS movie was awesome! I liked how use abused the glitches in Crash Man's stage and Wood Man's stage! For Wood Man's stage I was really surprised by how you were able to get to the boss chamber and then pull off the death glitch!
This movie was exciting to watch! It definitely deserves a 10/10!
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GUYS! YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE WHAT I FOUND!!!
If you press up and down on the controller at the same time you can slide while your on a ladder!
I think this will save a sufficient amount of time on my Mega Man 6 speedrun! :D
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Aglar wrote:
mega_man_3 wrote:
I think it will be faster if I start with Top Man for my run because Hard Man takes 28 hits to beat and that's way too long. I even did the math for it.
Start with Hard Man = 28 hits + 4 hits for Top Man's boss fight = 32 hits = 16 seconds
Start with Top Man = 14 hits + 7 hits for Hard Man = 21 hits = 11.5 seconds
I know I have to wait for about two seconds for Top Man to do his Top Spin before I can hit him again but I think the time difference will be worth it!
I think this route has been discussed before but never really got implemented so go ahead and try if you like.
While testing a new way of jumping in the first room of Hard Man's stage I found another thing. If you shoot magnets before a big bee appears and then make the bee appear before the magnet has left the screen the magnet will travel up and will, with the right timing, hit the big bee. Short demonstration.
Also I noticed that my run was faster than your test run at the end of the first room due to some better Rush maneuvers. Here's how you could've gained 2 more frames in your run.
Edit: Links works
Awesome demonstration Algar! You're really good at finding these glitches!
BTW here's my RM3 WIP (starting with Top Man):
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/995973884/mega_man_3-Rockman%203%20%28J%29%20WIP1%20%28new%20route%29.fcm
Sorry if near the end of Shadow Man's stage it turned out slower than usual but there was no way to luck manipulate the boss's action and the only way to do that is by entering the boss room at a different time. Even with lag if you enter on that exact same frame the boss does that same sequence of actions (I tested this on enemies too)!
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I think it will be faster if I start with Top Man for my run because Hard Man takes 28 hits to beat and that's way too long. I even did the math for it.
Start with Hard Man = 28 hits + 4 hits for Top Man's boss fight = 32 hits = 16 seconds
Start with Top Man = 14 hits + 7 hits for Hard Man = 21 hits = 11.5 seconds
I know I have to wait for about two seconds for Top Man to do his Top Spin before I can hit him again but I think the time difference will be worth it!
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Aglar wrote:
Speaking of your route choice I first got the impression that your only timesaver would be using Rush Jet in Magnet Man's level. I now see that you'll also be able to use Spark Man's weapon on Magnet Man and this might get your route strategy to work. However, it will probably be a very close call and even if you beat my time by a few seconds it's no guarantee that your route is faster since you might be able to do the old route faster then me. So kudos to you for even trying this:)
Actually, I thought about switching to Shadow Blade for Magnet Man's stage after Rush Jet so that I could use it on that enemy that's blocking the path near the end. It's also good becuse there is less lag.
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kuja killer wrote:
If there's anything you need to know in terms of RAM addresses for anything at all in megaman 3, i can give you whatever info you need .. (to you mega-man 3)
400-41F and 420-43F is the high and low byte of horizontal X speeds for all enemies/bosses/megaman
440-45F and 460-47F - same thing but for vertical Y speed
Thanks kuja killer!
I figured it out now! The 0400 address means the number of pixels Mega Man is traveling and the 0420 address is the same thing but divided by 256!
This means his sliding speed is 2.5 pixels and his walking speed is 1.296875 pixels! :D
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Good news! I found the address for sliding motion! It is in the 0400 and 0420 hex addresses! Maybe I could use this to my advantage! This can indicate if I pulled off whatever sliding glitch. :)
This will be the fastest Mega Man 3 speedrun ever! Wooooo!!! :D
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Aglar wrote:
I suggest you to continuously compare your progress with my run if you aren't already, though some lag management can be hard, or even impossible, to replicate. I must say I'm a little sceptical about the route choice since it seems much to regain almost 10 seconds later but I take it that you've done quite a bit of research regarding this so feel free to surprise me:)
I think the Magnet Man boss fight will take care of 4 of those seconds. All I have to worry about is saving about 6 seconds on the disappearing/reappearing blocks part.
Aglar wrote:
mega_man_3 wrote:
Aglar wrote:
Baxter wrote:
Wasn't there a strategy to use rushcoil earlier in the first room, shooting the enemies sooner, and avoiding a lot of lag?
Yeah, I used that in my run to save magnets for the boss. I think it wouldn't be as effective in his run considering his different strategies in that room.
I had to save up on Rush Coils fo rthe boss fight against Hard Man because when I run out of Rush Coil, Mega Man won't be able to shoot any bullets.
Ok, but if it really would save some time you could skip using Rush Coil in one of the places and use it there instead. For example, if I remember right, the Rush Coil jump up the first ladder only saves a few frames so perhaps you could trade this with the other.
I will go back and redo the stage and see if I can find more glitches.
When I was playing on the Anniversary Collection on Hard Man's stage, I was going through the first room as fast as I can and the third bee didn't appear whereas on the original it appears regardless of how fast I'm going through the level.
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Aglar wrote:
Thanks, I've done some comparisions to my run, showing whether you gained or lost frames:
Room 1: lost 28 frames - couldn't use magnets
Room 2: gained 1 frame
Room 3: gained 5 - superbly executed:)
Room 4: gained/lost 0 frames
Room 5: lost 2 frames
Room 6: lost 5 frames - I think lag management could've been better here, even though it's very random
Room 7: lost 2 frames
Room 8: lost 2 frames
Room 9: gained/lost 0 frames
Room 10: lost 1 frame - was this necessary?
Room 11: gained 68 frames - no weapon switch
Room 12: gained/lost 0 frames
Room 13 (Boss): lost 597 frames - no magnets on the boss (nice fight nontheless:D)
Total difference: lost 567 frames
I suggest you to continuously compare your progress with my run if you aren't already, though some lag management can be hard, or even impossible, to replicate. I must say I'm a little sceptical about the route choice since it seems much to regain almost 10 seconds later but I take it that you've done quite a bit of research regarding this so feel free to surprise me:)
I lost a lot more frames than I thought!
This just means I'm going to go back and look for more glitches and strategies!
Aglar wrote:
Baxter wrote:
Wasn't there a strategy to use rushcoil earlier in the first room, shooting the enemies sooner, and avoiding a lot of lag?
Yeah, I used that in my run to save magnets for the boss. I think it wouldn't be as effective in his run considering his different strategies in that room.
I had to save up on Rush Coils fo rthe boss fight against Hard Man because when I run out of Rush Coil, Mega Man won't be able to shoot any bullets.
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I also have a new strategy for the Snake Man-Gemini Man-Needle Man route. I will start with Gemini Man (not for the entire run just for that boss chain) so I can use Rush Jet for that stage so that when I go to Snake Man's stage it will already be full. I can use Shadow Blade for Gemini Man unless there's some other weapon stronger than that besides Search Snake.
I did find an invisible platform under the reappearing blocks when I was playing Magnet Man's stage. I tried to abuse this glitch by switching to the Rush Coil so I wouldn't have to wait as long to continue my progress through the stage since there was already one near the end of that area. I used the Rush Coil to jump at the bottom of that block but that glitch didn't work the way I thought it would.
So it looks like I'll stick with my original route (starting with Hard Man).