comparing accuracies between diffrent emulators sounds very arbitrary. What if the most accurate emulator only had 1 inaccuracy that let you beat the game super fast or with 0 a presses? Who should decide (arbitrarly) which emulator is the most accurate?
Also, as far as I know, SoulCal have a controller that plays back N64 games from input file on consoles. And as far as I know, it played back several Super Mario 64 runs on N64 already.
Do you still think that this trick that would crash the N64 should be allowed to reduce the A press counts? Because that's what it sounds like to me...
Arguing that it's possible on Wii's VC would only reduce A presses for Wii's VC runs.
I think using emulators should be considered tools when making TAS inputfiles for runs that can be verified on console. If you use a more accurate emulator you're just using a better tool for your tool assisted run. If you're aware of flaws in the tools you use, then you have to adjust how you use the tools.
I completely agree with this. You could make an emulator with perfectly accurate lag, but screw up the exception handler and allow ACE on every game. Glitches due to emulator inaccuracies really shouldn't ever be considered part of the game. Wii VC is a little different because it'a an official emulator, but in that case, it's really just a very similar remake of the original game. Wii VC Super Mario 64 is a separate game from DS Super Mario 64 and N64 Super Mario 64. As for the SA entry in ABC 100% TAS, I don't think it will be included. Plush and I are both against it. Ultimately pannenkoek's opinion matters the most, but I think he's leaning towards no as well.
It's definitely a cool trick however, and is a great example of how the smallest discrepancies in emulation can make a big difference. Pan did a great job planning and executing the route; anything involving PU strats is a lot of work. Hopefully we can find a lower speed strat that will put this all to rest.
Or another tech to prevent the crash. Though the best way to come up with them is figure out what causes the crash, AFAIK this is still not known. Though I'm aware you may correct me on this. Or find a way to jam the camera.
As for emulator bugs, consider this. What if someone TASed using an emulator with obscure bugs they put in on purpose?
I'll briefly weigh in with what I've said in the past: the emulator is an intrinsic part of the TAS. It's not about what can be accomplished on the console, it's about what can be accomplished on the emulator. In addition, the best and most preferred emulator offers the closest emulation of the console, so we will inevitably drift toward TASes that are more console-accurate, even if today's TASes aren't.
So I say let emulator-specific glitches stand. To do otherwise invites a slippery slope argument towards invalidating any TAS that can't be console-verified. After all, if a run desyncs on the console, that means the emulator "glitched" in a way that the console didn't.
(Also, get back to TASing, Personman!)
Not really, it could just be due to lag frames or other timing differences.
I found it to be a very nice looking and epic TAS. Honestly one of the most enjoyable I've seen (though I'm biased by my love of this game). Though it's sheer length meant I've had to watch it in bits.
I show a theoretical way to get from Hazy Maze Cave to the Secret Aquarium using PU movement. I hacked in the initial secret Z speed, but after that everything was done unhacked. The strat shown takes ~40 minutes. Tyler tells me we should be able to generate "infinite" speed in HMC using hyper speed walking, which would enable the obtainment of my initial speed.
Unfortunately, this entire strat would only be possible on emulator or virtual console. This is because travelling to PUs without a fixed cam freezes the game on N64, and you can't fix the camera in the castle foyer. So will the finalized version of this strat even count?
Here is an overview of what I do. I start in the water of HMC with secret Z speed and exit out. I press Z to conserve this speed into the castle foyer, and C^/Cv to cancel the crouching. From there, I skillfully navigate between PUs to move my local position from the foyer to the hallway containing BitDW. This is because we need to be within 149 units of the SA entrance hole to grab onto it, and the hallway provides sufficient height for that. And from the hallway, I do one last movement to the SA entrance, grab on, climb up, and enter. Here is a rough outline of my movement:
Usually PU movement would be faster, since we could use the A button to decrease speed faster. However, as this is the A button challenge, the quickest way to decrease speed is by punching constantly, which comparatively takes a much longer time.
Credit to Tyler for coming up with this route, and providing answers to all my PU questions. Credit to me for working out the specific PU movement route and executing it.
I would like to know the max amount of games we can be multitased with 30 minutes to do it.
Extra rule: If you start again some game you have beaten this game will not count.
also another question is to see if there is any game that can be beaten without doing "any action",pressing buttons to start the game or start new stage is ok, pressing keys that will not make the character act is ok.
EarthBound?
In a truer sense bad initialization may make that possible.
They do in-fact, plan to share the movie file and actually submit it to this site.
My issue with that is the fact that they probably don’t know how to replicate the Japanese improvements, at least not yet. I’d rather they not submit a movie that has known suboptimalities to it.
From what I've seen, Plush, on his own, was very good at figuring them out. They were mostly small optimizations. Some were in the first Bowser level (and thus now redundant). They'll probably ask them too. They've worked together before afterall.
Well there did seem to be a fall out from that TAS. Especially with Tyler not initially getting any credit, and I remember quite a bit of frustration. So I hope you see why I got that impression. I honestly have no ill will against you SP.
BTW, part of me think they're being secretive on purpose, since the Japenese TASers were faster, and don't want to colab, from what I've heard.
Not too secret..
But you are right, we don't want to vocalize too much. The authors working on it prefer to be low-key like with previous runs we have worked on, that end with a surprise submission making everyone lose their minds from the hype. And this time will definitely be worth it, so be patient please! Basically what that picture was meant to confirm is that we found a way inside VCutM without the wing cap.
Neat, I need to keep up with Twitter. Take all the time your need. It's been ages since a really polished TAS has been done. I'd rather weight longer for something better.
andypanther wrote:
Why can't we all just work together like with the 120 star, this is so silly. Reminds me of those very old SDA days.
Why hasn't this been published, for until an updated is done? At the moment it's still the best done so far. It could be a while until a new one is made.
Why hasn't this been published, for until an updated is done? At the moment it's still the best done so far. It could be a while until a new one is made.
If you are referring to going into the platform when ZBing into the chillbully, I can confirm that that does happen in BizHawk. Atleast with my crappy setup.
EDIT: Looks like you weren't.
BTW, part of me think they're being secretive on purpose, since the Japenese TASers were faster, and don't want to colab, from what I've heard.
I did notice that with ZBing into the chillbully it forced Mario under the ice. Weird.
It may be worth doing some more testing on it actually.
If you are referring to going into the platform when ZBing into the chillbully, I can confirm that that does happen in BizHawk. Atleast with my crappy setup.
EDIT: Looks like you weren't.
BTW, part of me think they're being secretive on purpose, since the Japenese TASers were faster, and don't want to colab, from what I've heard.
@Zeupar: There’s a difference between frame optimization, and strategy. All 3 of my SM64DS published TASes use massively different strategies that weren’t found at the time the previous one was made.
Oh, I thought that finding the optimal strategies for a video game was one of the most important parts of the process of "TASing intellingently". I mean, if one isn't good at that, their TASes will probably end up being among the "tons of suboptimal TASes published on the site".
In a game like SM64DS there are so many more strats and glitches, many take years to discover and understand, that there will be large improvements. There's a difference between standard gameplay routes, and complex series of glitches.
I mean, look how quickly he found improvements. His comment was overly harsh, but you're being silly.
Usually PU movement would be faster, since we could use the A button to decrease speed faster. However, as this is the A button challenge, the quickest way to decrease speed is by punching constantly, which comparatively takes a much longer time. Credit to Tyler for coming up with this route, and providing answers to all my PU questions. Credit to me for working out the specific PU movement route and executing it.
But you are right, we don't want to vocalize too much. The authors working on it prefer to be low-key like with previous runs we have worked on, that end with a surprise submission making everyone lose their minds from the hype. And this time will definitely be worth it, so be patient please! Basically what that picture was meant to confirm is that we found a way inside VCutM without the wing cap.
