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(This is mainly DS related but it's an idea we might need to know now rather than later. If this topic doesn't fit the General thread well, you can move it to the "Other Emulators")
The DS has loads of ways playing the games.
If a TAS run gets published we need to think which screen needs to be encoded during AVI recording stages.
Some Hardcore games (Mario 64 DS, New Super Mario Bros and Metroid Prime Hunters) has the main action on the top screen whilst the touch screen is some form of map (Level layout, progress or radar & Ammo), if those games has both screens encoded we would only see the top half with action whilst the bottom half with less action.
http://files.filefront.com/Mario+Wings+to+the+Sky+DS/;12919650;/fileinfo.html
This was from the latest DeSmuME' AVI recording in Xvid codec. With the Top screen being the main action you can see what I mean how awful is sorta looks sometimes (some people would only watch the top screen).
But there's more
Some games usually focus on the touch screen like Phantom Hourglass and Kirby's Power Paintbrush (Canvas Curse) however for Phantom Hourglass, some parts of the game uses both screens for action mainly boss battles. Imagine we only recorded the bottom screen and not showing the top screen for boss battles it wouldn't look right.
Last notificaiton: Some games are also required to play the DS sideways like Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword, Brain Training and some major battles as Bowser on Mario and Luigi RPG 3. We don't want to see a TAS movie of the action in the wrong angle.
My whole point for this is that the future DS emulators would need more complex AVI recordings and noting certain frames from A to B which screens should be recorded at what angle.
But as long as I remember wasn't there a video player that allowed you to rotate the video image 90 degress or not?
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Twilight Princess (GCN): It's faster to do it on that version because of an exclusive trick called the Long Jump Attack by using the Gale Boomerang and a faster Map Glitch.
Super Mario Galaxy:
I wonder how long it will actually take for Luigi (New Game+) to get 121 stars? All of the purple coin missions will look fun to watch.
Don't forget that Metroid Prime 2 will probably recieve "New Wii Play control" edition that will have faster gun pointing but hopefully Retro hasn't tweaked the other mechanics/add invisible walls to prevent sequence breaking.
If WiiWare Titles can somewhat be obtainable and work on Dolphin then:
MEGAMAN 9 Both In-Game and Real times
World of Goo
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Normally like in most of the games now you want to turbo fire the B button.
It works like this:
(0001) B on
(0002) B off
(0003) B on
(0004) B off
(0005) B on
(0006) B off.
It takes around 5-6 frames to normally see 3 M.Buster shots.
Now if my theory is correct: ( I accidently found out a flaw in my last post)
It could be like this:
(0001) B + SELECT
(0002) onwards. This should Fire and also go to the challenge screen (then exit) so that you can fire again at the earliest possbile IN-GAME frame. This should save 1 IN-GAME frame per shot. But since it's roughly 4/60 frames (16/60 when counting 2 clock flower and 2 Chankey Dragon fights) difference, it might not save an entire second to find out the All Clear time.
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An In-Game TAS would also abuse the Challenge List menu popping up. In case you didn't know Pressing - on the Wiimote to bring up the challenge list DOESN'T remove the current weapon used on the screen. So in other words it's basically saves some "In game time" when it comes to attacking mid bosses like C.Shot against the Chankey Dragon. It would roughly be like:
WRONG IDEA SEE THE NEXT POST
(0001)1 (Button)
(0002) - (Minus button)
wait until you can exit the menu and then:
(0369) 1
(0370) -
THE SECOND POST LOOKS MORE ACCURATE.
again for another 3 more times until the dragon is defeated.
Although I don't know how useful it will be since the All Clear times doesn't show the milliseconds. So abusing that trick might not even save 1 second if the time gets rounded at all.
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I tested what it plays like on the 3D graphics games (Super Mario 64 DS & New Super Mario Bros) and it's still pretty laggy ranging from 8 to 40 fps. But it's a proper 3d Handheld that lacks texture blending (pixcelated at closeup)
I tested out the AVI recording and playback from a XVID Mpeg 4 codec is really smooth without any sound of course.
Main things remaining to add:
- Input Display
- Sound included for Avi recording
- An NDS game movie file. (Re-recording)
- Less lag on a game that uses a 3D graphic engine.
I understand how long & complex these things can actually happen.
But for now it's cool at least that there are updates to these DS emus :)
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The bug is old as it is possible to start a mid-air body slam attack after finishing the former one in real time (at least once) but it is the first vid I've seen being used in the entire course. Looks interesting.
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On your 2nd list. Number 11 (Quicksand) is very likely to be from Course 3 (before the floods comes in).
I wish I knew how to read memory from the cheat search menu (It nearly gives my mind a headache working out each one but I get it what they mean when it's revealed like Jet's Fuel counter).
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If you can't get either problem fixed (have you tried using a CRT on that other PC if you don't have one already, or getting a new video card?), I have an idea...
1. You can send your work so far to a trusted member of the forums who knows how to exploit the hell out of this game...like UNKNOWNFILE maybe?
2. That member (say UNKNOWNFILE) finishes the TAS and submits it as "Wario Land (Super Mario Land 3) in (time) by GreenaLink and UNKNOWNFILE."
3. It gets accepted, encoded, and published.
4. ???
5. PROFIT!!!
I mean I would do it but I am unsure of my knowledge of the glitches in this game, so that is why I suggested someone else.
Also, in another thread I will ask what exactly is wrong with your computers.
Well I know there were moments that 1 TASer can finish off an old TASer's work (GB Megaman IV). But there is a flaw as early as Course 4. You see that I did a Dash bump boost to skip the ladder, I didn't know the faster strat until Course 17 (and a even better one on Course 30). Course 5 the boss reward coins were not optimised which I learnt how to do that on the end of Mt.Teapot.
The recent OMG Hax vid on Course 3 (revisit) shows that it's possible to get Treasure A without the key possibly saving a few frames (due to screen transistion costing some frames).
I am going to wait until 1 of the 2 PCs are healthy and try to finish it off.
The new trick could open up some awesome sequence breaks on the courses that has treasure.
Basically I am going to finish it off and post the full movie file on this topic (Unsure about submitting it that is 90% optimised).
Then I'll point out the main flaws on each course. It will give you readers the ideas how much improvement the 100% TAS can be done.
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Well it has a different effect on the stages that only shift the camera upwards if Wario is on a higher platform. UNKNOWNFILE's channel has 2 video examples. It even shows how to get treasure A (Course 3 with floods) WITHOUT the key which might save some time.
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I've been having some technical issues with my main PC that I can't properly continue my TAS. I got my work saved on my external harddrive. I got another PC in the house but SOMETIMES the screens gets screwed up so bad it's unreadable. To make up for it, there is a new glitch on my Youtube channel now which was Discovered by UNKNOWFILE. www.youtube.com/Greenalink (yes I am using the Wii so I can't copy the video link).
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So, it is currently impossible to do a tas of this game, since there isn't an emulator that can record it? I'm interested in doing a 100% run; I think it would be a lot of fun.
Also, I think I found a way to shorten 7-2, the vertical autoscroller with the three-arrow platform. It's possible to ascend the entire level with a mini-mushroom, through a series of wall-jumps and bouncing off paratroopas. I've only been trying it in real-time on my actual DS, and I can get as far as this part, right before the pipe to go to the flag:
| 00 |
| |
| KK 00 KK |
| KK KK |
|K 00 K|
0
0 0 0
0 0 0
m 0
?
The 0s are coins, the Ks are paratroopas that move vertically in formation, and the ? is a solid block with a coin in it.This level wraps, so it's possible to run and jump from the block to the right, wrap around, and land on the same block to double jump from, giving you enough height to wall kick off the wall hanging down, and, with perfect timing, shoot up bewtwwn the two sets of koopas. That's the only part I haven't been able to do yet, but I've done the wall jump; I just always hit the bottom or side of a koopa and die.
The only problem with using this for a 100% run is the first star coin, which is on the main path of the level, but completly surrounded by breakable bricks, like this:
XX
X/\X
X\/X
XX
The only way to break these blocks with mini mario would be to ground pound a koopa somewhere nearby and kick it into a brick, to get inside, but I can't see a way to do it. Or, you could start the level with the mini mushroom in reserve, use the platform to get to this coin, and then use the mini mushroom to zoom through the rest of the level.
So, it is currently impossible to do a tas of this game, since there isn't an emulator that can record it? I'm interested in doing a 100% run; I think it would be a lot of fun.
Also, I think I found a way to shorten 7-2, the vertical autoscroller with the three-arrow platform. It's possible to ascend the entire level with a mini-mushroom, through a series of wall-jumps and bouncing off paratroopas. I've only been trying it in real-time on my actual DS, and I can get as far as this part, right before the pipe to go to the flag:
| 00 |
| |
| KK 00 KK |
| KK KK |
|K 00 K|
0
0 0 0
0 0 0
m 0
?
The 0s are coins, the Ks are paratroopas that move vertically in formation, and the ? is a solid block with a coin in it.This level wraps, so it's possible to run and jump from the block to the right, wrap around, and land on the same block to double jump from, giving you enough height to wall kick off the wall hanging down, and, with perfect timing, shoot up bewtwwn the two sets of koopas. That's the only part I haven't been able to do yet, but I've done the wall jump; I just always hit the bottom or side of a koopa and die.
The only problem with using this for a 100% run is the first star coin, which is on the main path of the level, but completly surrounded by breakable bricks, like this:
XX
X/\X
X\/X
XX
The only way to break these blocks with mini mario would be to ground pound a koopa somewhere nearby and kick it into a brick, to get inside, but I can't see a way to do it. Or, you could start the level with the mini mushroom in reserve, use the platform to get to this coin, and then use the mini mushroom to zoom through the rest of the level.
There are 2 intersting videos on 7-2:~
3 Stars without using the lift : Done by me
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8CzZas0ihs
0 Stars without the lift: Not done by me but watch how sick this is.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6kXv6OjLSKE
I have made a 100% route but it's mainly for SDA only since for TAS you can manipulate luck (The Red boxes/Hammer bros and the prize items at the begginning of the stage).
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Thanks Nineko for encoding my last WIP.
I've finally worked out the coin plan :D on my last courses but I have to redo the Ship Boss reward section, I've noticed that I pressed B on every other frame and sometimes I might get another coin if the "Jet function" responded for 1 or more frames, the only thing that could end up "not" saving any time is the fade out frame rule. Then I'll copy paste (the fast way or the slow way) on the first 2 courses then I'll be up to date.
I'll tell you my progress (via edits on this post) but will not give any more secrets away (glitches, and stuff) :).
What have you done to the last SS Tea Cup level? x.x
Something really awesome that looks like it is zipping. (I perform a "Wrong Entry" glitch caused by the camera's position... I'll explain more on the workbench submission text).
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I'll continue it on Monday and finsh it ASAP. An WIP will be posted after Course 32 is completed (which shouldn't be long).
I can't think of any new tricks in the later courses other than the recent major Course 35 shortcut.
I do know the tree shortcut and the Genie being vunerable from a Jet Dash attack :).
This will be an good entertaining example of an Gameboy TAS.
* So many cool stuff that looks humanily impossible.
Edit: The huge room is soo hard to TAS that a new trick I've found to get up ladders even faster but the camera doesn't follow so it's like the train shortcut all over again (ghost items, this also means that I have to get the camera to follow me if I want to get the key). I don't know if it is even useful :(
Edit 2: Don't worry I've pulled something really awesome off now!!
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There is only 1 notable bug that was fixed on the GBC version. It is the Factory Story, Level 4(the one with the owl).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6DS1LkTEiE
I've posted a comment saying about entering an "off camera" door that leads to the title screen.
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eternaljwh wrote:
*watches* Oooh, looks good. Handling is interesting, particularly how you handle the Jet Hat for the level you acquire it in- it gets rather less so later, maybe because I'm used to it, maybe because it's not threaded as
General: got information on how much faster Wario runs around poles by coins, since that seems to be the factor? I feel like it ought to matter, but there's really not a place you can max coins very quickly before the first boss, where it'd make the most difference...it looks clean this way, at least. I'm just wondering where minor coin collection breaks even...
Minor : Is raising your hand necessary to collect the treasures(and make them suicide, hee) before they finish exiting their chests?
Course 20: what murder wall? 0:)
Course 25 looks like you screwed up a little having to stop to go down for the first wall.nevermind, platforms are solid. And why didn't you catch all the coins immediately like prior bosses? Can't jump high enough, I'm guessing?
Wario always raises his hand when he gets the treasure (I don't press the up button when doing it).
I didn't get all of the coins because of luck manipuation. I used the Jet Dash to get the first 10 coin as early as possible. Eventually I was too low to get the coins luckily the last 3 coins were 10 coins each. Also for some strange reason I finish the level quicker when I am on the ground (useful after collecting the coins).
Edit:
I had a one week rest since last Monday.. I usually have a 2 week break with TASing like I did during the Sherbet Land saga. For those who are wondering I'll release a final WIP after the 2nd Course of Parsely woods.
Right now i'm in the huge room of Course 30 (the boss' level) and finding a route to get the key very fast.
Afterwards I got to experiment with:
* Course 40 as Jet Wario:
See how quick I finish the level and collecting the coins that are "not in my way" (no small detours).
* See if Bull Wario can be done quick
* Also on Course 39 I need to do some experiments on:
TASing which form is faster Bull or Dragon... before the Course 39 key til before the course 31 revisit key.
If my TASing goes to plan I might beable to finish this before Christmas.
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Thanks everyone for the good feedback.
Right now I'm experimenting the other levels and see if I can get enough coins to reach the 9999 target (90,000 from the 15 treasures).
I was experimenting the 2nd level of Tea cup ship and I got rid of the skull exit sign again, but it was caused by sprite lag as far as I know.
Sadly it wasn't recorded on movie file but I'll try and do it again and see if it works.
edit: It does work and the timing, etc compare to the duck one at Sherbet Land is way easier this time around.
Edit 2: Finished Course 27 by carrying a spear man but I've found out that a Big Coin can cause the sign to remove too :D. So i re-did it and save around 200 frames. It's around 240 frames faster than using the 10 coin to open the door.
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Here's the latest WIP
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VUFZQVQI
The dehacked website is either down or not loading the page up.
It contains:
* 4 more treasures collected
* The last secret exit
* Very optimised 3rd boss battle (aka the FACE boss)
* A bull boss that gets taken down nearly instantly.
* Some insane key delivery skills mainly the first level of Stove Canyon.
I also learnt that the doors has some frame rule. So basically if I turn around before entering (1 frame later) I'll appear in the new area with the exact starting frames (so basically you can sacrifice some frames around 1 to 5 and still get a good time).
It starts at frame 83150.
And yes you'll may have noticed that the penguin fight is removed, this is increase the chance of an accepted run (thanks to a good member on here for the advice via PM).
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eternaljwh wrote:
Enemy-location addresses would be quite useful for this, if we had them...then you wouldn't have to blind-test when you don't even know if it's moving. :-/
Yeah too bad I don't have any experience at all when using the memory viewer thingy. Luckily this is an easy game for speed logic
(Jet Dash > High Jump > Normal Tackle > Walking > Crouch).
There's the VBA Watch application and I read the instrucions but sadly I couldn't get to to work :(
Edit: I'm in the room now and trying to get it to work again. If it doesn't work them I'm completing the level as normal.
Edit 2: I give up, it's too difficult and the setup is time comsuming because you got to touch the duck and then you have to pick him up costing quite a lot of frames, then find the position and then you chuck him and you go away at the right time and finally come back as early as possible when the glitch occurs. The setup and detours enough can take a long time for it to work.
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eternaljwh wrote:
Any other levels that leave/return with enemy on door will work/save time?
There is possibly one at the hidden level of Stove Cavern/Canyon.
The problem is position it correctly (my Sherbet Land one was found accidently @ Real time and was very hard to duplicate TAS wise) and this time the door is on the ground, not in mid-air.
IMO I'll try and test it out before I might give up on that trick (in that area).
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Mt.Teapot has been completed: 3 of the 6 levels I did, I play the Coin bonus game (yep nearly 3000 coins from that World alone).
In the coin bonus game I managed to manipulate 30 Big coins. Unlike the first boss there are death areas that stops the Coin reward section immediately. I also realised that:
In the coin bonus game:
Starting off with 250, (x2) another 250, (x2) 499 (since 999 is the max)
Thats 749 extra coins, (749 frames)
Starting off with 320, (x2) another 320, (x2) 359 (since 999 is the max)
Thats 679 extra coins, (679 frames) saving 70 frames. Sadly I had to lose around 14ish frames to manipulate the Big Coins.
I'm going release the next WIP when:
The first half of Stove Cave is completed or
All of the Stove Cave levels are completed.
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So far things are going ok in my TAS.
There are a few things I like to mention:
As of 18th October I've completed 3/6 exits on Mt.Teapot
Includes:
The 2nd Mt Teapot level with the normal exit.
Treasure B
The temporary level optimised
and I've got treasure C (meaning 6/15 treasures collected).
Right now I'm in the room where there is a star in the box. I'm planning to skip it but the nightmare is now with the falling part as it's difficult to find the perfect frame to stop Jet Dashing and to descend and to move to the left/right without hitting a Speaman and stuff.
The next level is the switch level and I'm planning to chuck enemies into 3 chickens along the level to get 90 coins. The problem is that the chicken only swallows the enemy by a forward throw it doesn't accept an upward throw so it's quite a toughie for optimisation wise. After the 3rd chicken, the rest will be a piece of cake and then the big switch.
The last level could cause problems as there will be sticky bomb bats that can stick to you until you make them touch a wall. This may lead to some stops in frames or leading to a wall if I'm fast enough.
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It looks like I'm the only one other than Dammit and the posters on here that know this game well. The game wasn't Sonic the Hedgehog like popular but a lost, cult classic.
It's also my first time voting a game which I did a week ago (no I wasn't a fanboy and gave 10 on both of them). I had a thought about it and my experience with the game.
I know Jumping is annoying but it's strangely faster than Walking (opposite to Megaman without the slide).
The useage with the burner on the waiting parts were well used and so was the weapons (like mmbossman said).
I think I gave entertainment an 8 or a 7 because of the crazy ninja-esque movement to avoid dying.
I think i gave technical a 9 (it's my first time voting) because it used all of the tricks that I knew of on my past ESWAT TAS work except the good useage of P.C against the bosses.
You may critise me if my votes were too high but I knew this game before I was 6 years old.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1602562748/WariolandGreenalink.vbm
All of Sherbet Land goals. It starts at frame 38355.
I don't know how to (or yet work out how to) take a sample movie file (like the Sherbet Land movie chunk) and post it as a WIP...
Nineko you're welcome to encode it again remember start the encoding at 38355.
I collected 3 more treasures,
8 more exits
some awesome glitches
and a Penguin fight.
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4matsy wrote:
Hacker "rock5easily" (at least I think that's the author's nick--either way, this is the same guy that hacked the Plug and Concrete stages into Rockman 4) has now messed around with the Rockman 5 ROM and turned it into a never-ending endurance run, like the recently-released endless mode download for MM9. o_O
The author's site is here; you can download the ips patch for the hack by clicking the screenshot.
Sound pretty cool. The only thing I could think of Zipping wise is to use ProtoMan and to use his slide whilst riding his Protojet near a ceiling (just like the MM7 TAS did).
