Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
I beat this game at 100% using Save States last month. I had 99,999 Coins, and ended up with Wario's face on the Moon. xD
I always wanted to see a 100% run of this done, and am glad someone is going to do it. :3
This was my favorite Gameboy Game. ^.^
I'm glad to hear.
So far (as of 12th October GMT Time 2008) I've done 5/8 exits of Sherbet Land.
I'm on the 2nd Sherbet Land Course searching for the hidden exit then another main level which contains a treasure to collect and then the last level. Probably a couple of days left til it might get posted, but it depends on what will happen to the in-level coin route, etc.
EDIT: OMG I've found a cool glitch to remove the Giant Skull coin signs (those doors that you need to chuck a Giant Coin in). Sadly I think it's limited but is useful on the course I'm playing on. I'll post it here soon since it's gone past midnight here in the UK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfzbvqF6RtI (video proof).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
nineko wrote:
Something like this?
Of course I'm going to try again to see if I can beat him even faster...
This is good. At least it shows that he attacks again with different timings so with luck manipulation the boss should release those rocks as soon as possible.
His tounge attack may be useful to finish the level faster, but the time it takes to hit the same rock block twice is longer than standing still after collecting the coins (since I'm going for 100%).
Keep up the good work.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
Thanks Nineko :)
Good news:
It's possible to skip both Autoscrolling screens in Course 35 now!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-AEqpXcPA2Q
I need to do some research with the Left direction and other things and see if it can be done even quicker (and see if it's possible to end up on the final screen without using any other doors).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
So I am playing it normally and stuff like the Tree Glitch and the treasure lid spawn spot. I realised that:
I may need to stand still for a few seconds for the camera to come in (and letting me to do the trick). It might not be easy manipulating the spot.
I'm not the best when describing this but when Wario is off the screen. If he then comes in again from the left you won't be able to achieve the shortcut as the camera will go to the left and not to the right (which you want it to do). Sadly I can't get on top of the Spearman (that ends up like a treasure lid when entering it properly) without seeing myself coming in from the left of the screen.
So the plan is:
To jump and dash then land on the Tree treasure room on the earliest frame when Wario lands and is in front of the doorway. Next wait and press up the earliest possible frame when the game thinks you were in that treasure room (so you'll be behind the Treasure door then press up again to re-enter and collect the treasure).
Nineko because you are a useful player that gave me some useful hints for me to think off (like the Tree Glitch and that 2nd train level glitch too). Can you try out and experiment the Stove Cave's Boss manipulation and stuff please?
Edit 1: On the 2nd Train level. I've managed to skip the first "Waiting area" of the level now.
I'll try it again later on and take some notes, etc.
Go left and when you see yourself again coming from the right stop Jet Dashing and go down 1 screen. Then do 3 rough full length Jet Dashes and you'll decend to the doorway skipping the first Waiting area.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iQOfMbnmI9E (here's the video)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
Still no progress news but:
I remember when messing around that during the moment you get a treasure from the chest "While holding a Big Coin" it disappears after Wario places his new treasure in the treasure collection screen making it useful for the coin count delay thingy.
Also in my TAS I'll probably skip the penguin fight (to follow my goals) but I might do a test with a new game file and abuse the debug's 999 coin code so I don't have to replay the levels and see if skipping it makes a difference.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
The burner is quite tough to use effectively in a TAS like Level 3/6 because you are only going in 1 direction and it's isn't obvious if using the burner in Area A is better than Area B (and vice versa).
The mini burner boosts were optimised.
There is a trick I've found in mission 7 but it might not save any frames because of the position at the end.
In the Tetris block area when they are blinking to dissappear you can do a Burner boost Down to get inside every time it blinks, how fast it is to get out to the other side, depends on the burner fuel you have left and stuff for the rest of the level. But if it is faster then you might need to optimise your fuel for the rest of the level.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
nineko wrote:
Now that's a very good plan, nice work. Apparently all of my posts in this thread have been useless so far, I'm trying to help but you know much more than me about this game.
Oh well, I'm still the official WIP encoder :3
Taking about that, any new WIP coming soon?
Don't let yourself down... it may be "I knew this" material but for the others it might trivial and useful.
I haven't done much yet (Darkrai, Shaymin glitch and Megaman 9 slowed me down).
I've done 3 out of 8 exits still and now I'm on the bottom right of Sherbet Land, just hitting the switch to get the Key the only problem is the coin plan. Since the level is scattered with coins but not a lot if you speed through the level. In other words I need to optimise my coins so I can throw big ones to make the count 000 again (skips the small delay before the coin countdown).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
nineko wrote:
Back on topic, the SDA run was rather interesting, and also made me realise that you can't keep the Flying Hat during all the game if you aim for 100% completion.
For example, you'll need either the Bull Hat or the Fire Hat to get the treasure in course 28; you'll need the Bull Hat to get the treasure in course 39. And there's probably more than these, I just gave it a quick look.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gameboy/file/563296/44640
The tresaure list.
The only notable power up change will be course 39. I have to be Bull Wario in the "Spear trap" room and then get the key, I'm not sure if a mini-detour from the pre-treasure room and get the Dragon hat to see if it is faster or not. After I get the treasure of Course 39 and clear it. I go back to Parsley Woods' Course 31 for 2 reasons:
Nearest level to get the Jet Hat (Syrup's Castle Course 2 takes too long).
A second visit after removing the entire lake is required to get a treasure on that course as well.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
Even if Wario manages to enter a door "Out of Bounds" he could possibly end up in a Minus world (swapped objects in the same level), fingers cross that it's as useful as the shortcut on the tree level.
Don't forget there is an SDA run on this now, it's any% sub 45 minutes long.
http://speeddemosarchive.com/WarioLand.html
The tactics used in the run is the main reason why I chosed to do an 100% > Any% first.
EDIT: The trick where you use the tree trick to move the Spearman spot that ends up being the treasure lid seems cool. The only way to get near to me by the entrance is a bounce that should take him to the left of the room, then I leave and re-enter to see if I can hit the lid, get the treasure and leave the room with minimum frames as possible.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
eternaljwh wrote:
It doesn't blue in the paths between worlds, I mean. I have a game currently in this position (with worlds 6 and 8 accessible, but the paths 5-6 and 6-8 gray).
For my 100% 3 star run I did everything on the first 7 worlds but NOT including:
5-Castle Alt Exit. Without that level the path to World 7 via Touch sreen is greyed out (I did everything on World 7 by using the Cannon of World 4).
However: I did everything on World 8 and after completing Bowser's Castle for some reason the path between World 5 to 7 went blue.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
eternaljwh wrote:
But it does differentiate on the map whether you have accessed a world by normal path or cannon.
Not really:
World 4 can only be accesed by a 2-Castle hidden exit.
World 7 can be accessed by 2 methods:
A) 5-Castle Hidden Exit or
B) Cannon at World 4 (reccomended)
The cannons are required to get a Star on the player's file and you only need to do 1 of the 2 methods to reach World 7.
It doesn't really work on Castles that were replaced by cannons such as
Castle 6/7 to World 8 against The cannon of World 5 to World 8.
I don't think the game will give you a star that way.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
N. Harmonik wrote:
GreenaLink wrote:
I've just been playing again recently after finding out Darkrai and Shaymin are finally possible to get by glitching on a non-Japanese Copy.
(O_O) Please tell me how it works!!!!
And in regards to TASing, maybe players should also take into account what gender they pick, because the one they didn't pick will be in the game was a sort of rival and he/she might have different speeches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEWUM7VcRbY
My instruction video on how to get Darkrai.
It requires tweaking so it's a difficult trick to pull off.
EDIT1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGv43pmLzoI
My instruction video on how to get Shaymin
Again it requires tweaking so it's a difficult trick to pull off.
Both of these are very risky if you mess it up.
EDIT end
A player may start with Chimchar (and nickname it with 1 letter) because the rivals never nickname their starters & have less letters (Turtwig & Piplup).
The players' default names are Lucas and Dawn. So staring as a boy should face less text on Dawn.
Possible words:
His vs Her
He vs She (A boy would wait a few more frames for She)
Him vs Her (odd how "Her" can be used for 2 uses really).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
nineko wrote:
GreenaLink wrote:
I've found out that it's possible to defeat the penguin as Tiny Wario by chucking the big coins to knock his spikey helmet off.
I just found out that you can use the coins also against the knight in level 40, just in case you're interested.
Also, I found a bug with the bull hat that can probably be useful in some circumstances, but I don't think you're even going to use the bull hat at all so this is pretty much an useless discovery. Basically, when you do the butt drop, the screen shakes for a few seconds, and when it stops shaking, you revert to the standing position for one frame whatever thing you were doing before (yes, including climbing a ladder, ducking, etc). This means that you can (for example) do a butt drop, jump, wait for the standing frame, jump again, to reach higher places. You can also use the shoulder attack mid-air. Another application is when you have to go down from a ladder that begins at the floor: you can butt drop on the top of it, then go down a few steps while the screen is shaking, then you will be standing in the middle of the ladder, you can use the shoulder attack and Wario will fall to the ground (while keeping the chance to use the ladder if you press up or down).
Sorry if this was already know, I hope I could describe it in a good way. Also I'm not sure that the standing position lasts for one frame or more, as I found this while playing in real time.
I've noticed the 1 free frame thingy during the shake but you did find some good uses, the best use is both higher jumping and going down ladders quickly sadly the speed loss compare to Jet Dashing abuse is notable, it there was the Bull Wario only TAS (like the Super Mario World Small only TAS) it would be interseting to watch.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
I've just been playing again recently after finding out Darkrai and Shaymin are finally possible to get by glitching on a non-Japanese Copy.
But anyway for TASing this game there are some notable changes:
Using the Japanese Vesion (Early releases before 2007) enables a Surf glitch that can skip the Elite 4 entirely
The bad thing about it is that it ruins the entertainment of how is the TASer is going to get through High Level Pokémon for 5 battles in a row.
Most of Team Galatics' Pokémon are mostly Poison types including:
Crogunk (Poison/Fighting)
Toxicroak (Poison/Fighting)
Zubat Family (Posion/Flying)
There is a forced Legendary Battle like Ruby/Sapphire (Dialga or Palkia)
Palkia has less resistance and weaknesses than Dialga but get STAB from Surf, an reliable Dragon type attack called Spacial Rend (replace it with Dragon Pulse later on for PP purposes at Victory Road)
Dialga is slower than Palkia but has way more resistance and 1 more weakness. Sadly its signature move isn't as reliable as Palkia (because it requires a turn loss after using it).
I played the game as Piplup and during levels 16-23 (as Prinplup) it took a long time to defeat the foe's Pokémon in battle because it its limited level-up movepool (Bubble, Pound, Peck and Bide/Metal Clow)
You can get a Machop at level 6 north of Oreburgh City (the first Gym city too). But remember it's not just IVs to manipulate it's his ability as well because the Machop family has got a new (and unique) ability called: No-Guard which makes any attack (not counting 1 Hit Ko moves like Horn Drill) 100% accurate.
An Guts rush like the Sapphire TAS would work well but will need to know some good TMs to counter many Poison types from the many Team Glactic Battles.
Quick Claw can be found a Jubilife City (But I can't remember if you can get it immediately or get it way later).
Turtwig is the slowest starter so they are likely to attack last, the evolutions are intersting though since at Lv32 they can evolve into Torterra which are then Grass/Ground and learn Earthquake )to make it even deadly). They can also learn Rock Slide from a TM in the Snowy Mountain part of the game (during Mt.Coronet for the final showdown).
Chimchar is the fastest of the 3 but since they are Fire types they will have a problem getting past the first Gym. Luckily they can learn Ember at level 7 which is a special attack which should deal at least some damage with a critical hit against: Geodude, Onix and Cranidos poor Special Defence. The only backfire is that the AI is much meaner and uses potions to heal Pokémon as early as the first Gym.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
For either All levels or All levels and every Star coin spent run. There isn't any red boxes that goes to the castle levels (I think) so you may have to get a mini-shroom in reserve and collect it a few frames before the last fireball hits the mommy pokey boss.
Also if you get the cannon of World 4 that leads to World 7 you DON'T need to do 2 fights against Petey in World 5.
Since Cannons are part of a File Star too,
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
Thank you very much, the next WIP will be released after Sherbet Land is completed. I've found out that it's possible to defeat the penguin as Tiny Wario by chucking the big coins to knock his spikey helmet off. It might save frames but it will require 20 coins and nearly 20 extra frames in the Coin bonus game (since that level contains an giant 100 coin).
Edit: Hang on I can pickup a Big coin that I just thrown (to knock off the spikey helmet) so I am going to that method then.
Edit 2: Progress of Sherbet Land (as of 19.9.08) 3 out of 8 exits.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
New well actually it's an improved WIP which saves over 7000 frames from my old run:
Notable changes:
Used Blublu's strats in Course 1a, 2 (before hat) and 4 (after the 1st set of blocks).
Speed through Course 4 with 0 coins as opposed to 85 (640 from gamble).
Manipulated loads of coins after the boss to get a whooping 248. This doesn't reach the 999 target but it does skip a gamble in the mini-game.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/737169955/WariolandGreenalink.vbm
For those who also saw my 2nd WIP during my "re-do" announcement I've saved over 16 frames on Course 3 second visit.
Anyone is welcome to encode this (because my ones are rubbish).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
nineko wrote:
GreenaLink wrote:
Secondly you can get bumped by the skull when it's rising so it's not going to be an useful trick.
Yeah I noticed that too, but I thought to tell you this anyway, in case you could get something useful from it. Oh well, at least we tried :)
Don't feel bad though it seem like a really cool idea to save time too bad about the lack of another input to unpause the game. Although performing an tackle as Jet Wario has a different hit box that you can go underneath objects (not counting crouching areas) like spikes however you need at least 1 frame in a standing pose/on the ground and press UP to enter the door way, it might work from a distance but it will be constant pausing that it's quite difficult to find the perfect distance.
Edit:
So far I completed course 4 and I've save over 150 frames compare to Blublu's run. On Course 5 before the boss my strat saved just under 70 frames. But I'm sure Blublu's run on the boss fight saved at least 1 frame because he used the turbo attack before the "freeze" moment.
Edit 2:
After a boss gets defeated you get loads of coins the outcome varies and can be manipulated along the way. My total coins could be 213 or 222. If I can manipulate every coin to be big coins (that worths 10) I could get 250 which can skip a gamble in the coin bonus game.
So far I got up to 248 coins, multiply that by 4 and you get 992 coins (7 short) but that's still really good I could get the remaining 7 from the last course because the input time after the last boss isn't affected.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
That's intersting although the main problem is that there isn't a button other than START to unpause the game so it would be like:
Frame no : Input : Condition
001 : START: Unpaused (possibly it responds on the next frame)
002 : None* : Paused
003 : START + RIGHT: Paused
004 : Right :Unpaused Wario gets to move for 1 frame.
The pattern goes on again and Wario can only move around every 4th frame.
Secondly you can get bumped by the skull when it's rising so it's not going to be an useful trick.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
mmbossman wrote:
GreenaLink wrote:
My goals will be:
-Aims for Fastest time (in most of the levels)
-Contains Entertainment/Speed Trade offs (Penguin boss and Coin minigame)
These couple throw up a red flag for me. First, why aren't you aiming for fastest time in all the levels? Aiming for the fastest time in most levels is a very fuzzy goal, at best.
Second, I don't have a problem with entertainment/speed tradeoffs, but they tend to be small movements where the speed loss isn't very noticeable. Doing extra levels or bosses is fine, but make it part of your "100% completion" goal or something. The way you have it phrased right now, it makes me think that you're doing them just to do them, with no real point (an analogous example would be collecting 1 or 2 stars in Super Mario 64, then continuing with the entirely glitched route. Sure, it lets people see a little more of the game, but it makes your goal very hard to define).
I don't know enough about the game you're working on to give you specific examples, but I just thought I'd give you a couple tips before you continue working on it.
Thanks for the information.
I got some corrections on my previous post to tell you now.
When I said in "Most of the levels" in fact is really just 1 level (silly me) that you'll notice which is basically the penguin boss battle which I won't skip (it's faster to skip) but will be "aimed for fastest time".
Sherbert Land is the only "hidden world" that you'll get part way through World 2. The levels in Sherbert land will be done fast, not just a casual playthrough.
Some levels you have to go back again after completing a certain level to get something you couldn't get before (like backtracking for Gold Skull tokens in Zelda Ocarina of Time).
For example in Level 3 there is a giant key door that reveals the treasure but you can only see it (to unlock it) by completing level 5 which then raises the Water tide revealing the treasure door.
There is another example of this later on in the game.
After completing World 5 I get shot out of a cannon which makes me end up in Parsley Woods. On the first course of Parsley Woods it is flooded so you can't go anywhere much but there is a switch on the second course which deactivates the flood to let you play the first course without the water (and get the treasure).
However (Comfirmed that it doesn't work for Parsley Woods Course 1) there is a bug that enables you to skip some courses on the map screen. I was planning to skip the first course of Parsley Woods to hit the switch on Course 2. Then without the water I go back to Course 1 to get the treasure and complete the level
I'll post video examples of these so you can see and understand what I am talking about.
Achieving 100% which includes:
All 40 courses completed (includes hidden levels),
All 15 treasures (some treasures are in the hidden levels)
All 5 hidden exits (Some re-visits I also aim for the treasure like level 3)
Perfect Ending is 99,999 coins but GameFaqs says that to achieve the best ending you got to get 99,999 coins and the 3 key things above.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
My goals will be:
-Aims for Fastest time (in most of the levels)
-Contains Entertainment/Speed Trade offs (Penguin boss and Coin minigame)
-Abuses glitches in the game (long crouch jumps, out of bounds, treasure counts as an enemy, skip a course to go back for the treasure).
-Best Ending
-All levels & Secrets.
Genre : Platform, Action
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
I've decided that
I'll use Blublu's strats on:
Course 1. part of 2 (up to the Jet hat), 4 and the Boss on Course 5.
My Stratss will be used on
Course 2, 3, 5 and the rest.
I might skip the penguin battle because an exit does give the Wario Flag on the overworld screen and in Parsley woods there is a course you got to go back after completing the different course the solution:
Use skip the course bug then complete the 2nd course aftetwards I go back and enter the first woods course where there is no water and I can get the treasure from it.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
Blublu wrote:
I'm sorry to have to tell you this now (wasn't really following the progress closely), but on level 4, you do not have to wait for the Big Thingy to come ferry you across the gap. You can use the jet helmet and jump on the bats. I did it in my otherwise rather crappy (compared to yours) WIP a while back, so I completed the level 38 gameunits faster. Since that WIP is no longer available where I originally posted it, I found it again on my compter, but it only syncs on some older versions of VBA. (it works on VBA-rerecording-17.1 ) Here is is again, if you want to see:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1190336749/blublu_warioland_wip2.vbm
*Headbutt on the screen 100 times* Sweet that's a really good reason to start again because it's a major entertaining improvement.
Well I might copy some of your strats like the last room in course 1.
Are you saying that my strats in course 2,3 and 5 (not boss) is better than yours?
I'll keep my old one to show you this: It contains my new stuff after the first boss but you got to hold the turbo button to go through it (I'm still new to posting WIPs)
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/438943900/Super%20Mario%20Land%203%20-%20Wario%20Land%20%23%20GB.vbm
Edit finally made my coin route plan:
Note: Theses are the coin total I would have after succeeding the coin bonus game 3 times in a row: (The ones in brackets is how I'm going to get these coins)
Rice Beach boss : 999 coins (Boss reward)
Sherbet Mountain boss: 999 coins (Hidden 100 coin block)
Mt Teapot switch level: 800ish coins but costs time (3 bucket birds along the way)
Mt Teapot boss: 999 Coins (Boss reward)
Stove Cavern Boss: 999 coins (Boss reward)
Stove Cavern secret course: at least 800 (Hidden 100 coin block)
Tea Cup Boss: 999 coins (Boss reward)
No water tree course 1: Around 320 coins (Coins along the way)
Woods Train course 1: Around 480 coins (Coins along the way)
Tree course if manipulated well: 800 coins, (2 bucket birds)
Woods Train Course2: Around 400 coins (Coins along the way)
Woods Boss: 999 coins (Boss)
Estimated total: Around 9694/9699
If that estimate total happens after course 39 then I need at least 5 coins on course 40 the achieve the target.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(60)
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
(Sorry for double post but imporant mini poll)
In Sherbert land there is the Penguin boss with boxing gloves.
I can skip it by using the exit but I want to defeat it for a few reasons:
+Makes a better 100% feel.
+Entertaining way to defeat it by Tools Assisted methods.
- A longer time in my run.
What do you think shall I do.. defeat it or skip it?
Edit: I'm not in that room at the moment. After WIP1 file I've done:
Course 3 Treasure and hidden exit,
Course 6 (Crab hunting)
Course 7 (Firsy level of MT.Teapot) and
Course 8 Hidden exit to Sherbert Land.
