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Just posting to show (to Zeupar) the "waterfall jump" trick.
Here is the movie file.
To perform it, you just have to jump at the right frame, the downside is that it resets horizontal speed to 0.
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We are on this game with Cooljay, still in the "dissection" phase.
There are already some neat tricks discovered:
-a way to murder bosses when they get near the edge of the screen
-quite a bunch of ram addresses (useful or not...)
-2 speed "caps" and how to bypass the first one without bumpers or spindash, etc...
-little tricks that might be helpful. or not (like jumping from the top of a waterfall)
-how the end panels work, at least in the first level, didn't try elsewhere yet.
There is one thing with this game: the only TAS possible is a 100% run (maybe a time attack, too), because if we don't get all the chaos emeralds, we don't see the credits. Instead we have a frustrating "TRY AGAIN" screen at the end ^^
We're going with Sonic.
I think that's all...
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I suppose you also tried to find a way to destroy the Hind without the Stinger. (seems impossible to me, but maybe if grenades can hit it when it's low, I really can't find another idea)
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TheThrillness wrote:
Grincevent wrote:
TheThrillness wrote:
The plan now is to OoB at the Comm Tower B area but nothing has a vent or any walkable on objects.
Is it possible to OoB where the stairs are broken, inside the tower? Just a random idea.
We've tried everywhere yeah.
It's not fair... Finding an awesome glitch and not being able to find a way to use it's full potential.
But there must be a way, arrg!
Maybe a combination with another (minor or not) glitch.
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Personman wrote:
Great run! Really enjoyed the movement through the dense enemy segments.
It's awesome to see how far you've come from your first post in the Newbie Corner not so long ago! Congrats on the probable acceptance of your first run! (And a yes vote, of course)
Thanks (I tend to say that a lot on this site :P).
When I first posted in the newbie corner, the test run was already quite far in the game, and I knew most of the tricks used in this version at that time. That's why it didn't take too long; the game is short, too.
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zaphod77 wrote:
This is absolutely worth publishing.
While he makes a lot of it look easy, it really is not, and that's what TASing is all about. showing superhuman skill. (well that and glitching.) And some levels are hard even with tool assistance for this goal.
TASes make the games look easy, for sure ^^
There is a place where I tried to add entertainment because of that.
It's the first part of the last level, with the giant bats.
Normally, if you just walk and jump when necessary across the gaps in the bridge, most of the bats don't pose a threat at all... So I manipulated them to try to attack me as much as I could ^^ (without losing time, of course, it was just about jumping at certain frames)
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THC98 wrote:
STBM wrote:
Hi,
I tried to make an optimized version of the first mission of Billy Hatcher, do you think it's enough optimized this time ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDbmhyrhonw
Yeah, this seems much more optimized :D
I just think you should test if you lose some speed jumping, if so you could save some frames at the start, dodging that guy/something you jumped.
Oh, and while you're at it (STBM), I see that you seem to slide against walls just after jumping over the NPC in the beginning... It's very brief and I'm not certain that you touch the wall, but if it is the case, that's another thing to check. I mean, to see if you can gain time by avoiding sliding against walls.
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I never played this game, but it was nice to watch. Limbs flying, lots of slidings and a special guest named "screw attack".
That was entertaining, and it looks well optimized (the comments comfort me on this, it's an improvement, etc...).
*throws a limb on the YES vote button*
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Arg, la manipulation de la chance, une bonne prise de tête, bonne chance ^^
Je sais pas si c'est une bonne idée de le faire en vidéo, ça, y'aura sûrement plus de blabla que de démonstration concrète. Ou alors juste une petite vidéo d'exemples qui servira à illustrer le guide.
Je suis derrière lapogne36 (pas trop près derrière, pas de danger :p) sur ce coup là; si tu dois montrer des exemples, commence par un classique comme le monopoly.
Le fait qu'il y ait clairement des dés dans le jeu montre en plus bien qu'on parle de "chance", un bon symbole, ça :)
Dans ma run de Castlevania, j'ai pas du tout "surveillé" le RNG, c'était tout du brute force, mais je peux te fournir des exemples (avec fichier movie et instructions pour reproduire le truc) pour montrer comment un ennemi tué à différentes frames peut lâcher ou non un objet, ou comment un ennemi peut changer de comportement assez radicalement selon le "timer" du jeu (pas le timer affiché, je parle de perdre volontairement une petite poignée de frames avant l'apparition de l'ennemi).
En dehors de ça, je suis nul en RNG ^^.
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TrenchAce wrote:
I have to admit, I was iffy about the goal before I saw the vid. But after watching, I can say that I was thoroughly entertained by the routes took to avoid/play around with enemies. This is a well-made TAS. Yes vote
PS I especially like that you don't take damage from the crows which would end up killing them!
Thanks :)
I spent a long time trying to pass the crows without hitting them (I saw it coming and wondered if it was possible at first ^^), and even more time to improve it after I found a way to go past them without a kill.
If I was to try it in an unassisted speedrun, I think I would give up at stage 7 :p
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Dacicus wrote:
Why did you seemingly randomly whip the air throughout the run? Luck manipulation?
There was no luck manipulation using the whip, but I used it to gain time in a few places, the rest is for entertainment or "choregraphy".
Every time I jump from a high place and whip at the air before landing, it's for saving time; if I don't use the whip, Simon crouches after the jump and it costs time.
There are parts when I'm chased by hunchbacks, and it was quite boring to watch the character just jump back again and again... Without much options, I decided to feint whipping them. "Get off me! Go away!" Simon says...
Ok, it's not extremely funny, but just a little better than just jumping I think :p
Simon is not very expressive, which is sad.
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boct1584 wrote:
I have one concern before I make my vote: Was there no way to damage boost around the downstairs segment in Stage 02? Or did you need the health for the critical hit glitch at the boss?
Derakon explained it all about the damage boost, but I'd like to add an interesting fact about the critical glitch.
In the battle with that giant bat, this glitch is kind of enhanced by the stairs, that's weird.
If you try a critical by jumping at the bat, it will only empty about half of its HP, but standing on the stairs allows you to OHKO it.
I suppose it has to do with the fact that Simon won't be ejected and it maybe adds more "critical frames" (when doing a critical, the enemy HP doesn't drop immediately, more like a little amont per frame for some frames).
While testing, I still managed to not kill the bat with one critical on the stairs, there was like 1 HP left after the hit.
It's a weird glitch...
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I'm uploading an encode while writing this. But the quality will be the same as my test run (on the Castlevania board).
If a good encoder (not like me ^^) can do something about the framerate it would be nice. I'm mostly talking about when Simon gets hit, youtube destroys the "blinking" because of their 30fps.
By the way, the category "minimalist pacifist" was chosen by default because I can't find a more fitting name according to the rules of the run...
If someone has a better idea for a name, don't hesitate ;)
Basically, it's "don't destroy or hit furniture and enemies except if it is a boss battle" (I still avoid candles and wall breaking there).
The part about items is to make sure it is as "minimalist" as possible.
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Bisqwit wrote:
Hmm, I see no reason to not pick items that appear due to reasons beyond the player's control. I don't know where that kind of thing would happen, but the submission message says:
don't pick up items. They can indeed still drop from projectiles for example.
Technically, anything that happens in a TAS should be in the player's control.
Anyway, I'm 99% sure that no item spawns in that run, but just in case, I had that in mind: "if an item appears, don't pick it up".
It could happen for example on my test run, when I still used bats as platforms (it killed them).
Edit: talking about projectiles...
When hitting Death (the boss) at one time, I hit a scythe too. It didn't drop anything here, but it could have.
And to answer another question in advance: I didn't consider boss's projectiles as enemies for the pacifist aspect, but I still tried to avoid hitting them as much as possible without losing time, for style.
In fact I had that mini-rule in mind: "don't hit projectiles unless you are attacking (whipping) the boss and it is in the way", in other words: the boss must be hit at the same time.
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Warp wrote:
THC98 wrote:
-First thing you have to know about 3D optimizing is that you must hold the perfect angle in your TAS Input for EVERY move, making you go in the most straight line to the next curve or obstacle
Actually that's not always the case.
Quake is a very good example of this. Rapidly zig-zagging (ie. while moving towards your goal, alternatively press left and right) is faster than running straight. (AFAIK this is because of a small quirk in the game engine that makes you move slightly faster for a fraction of a second when you change direction, before your movement speed stabilizes to its intended maximum.)
(Moreover, there's a way to move even faster by combining zig-zagging and bunny-hopping: Due to another quirk, if you jump immediately after landing from your previous jump, you don't lose any speed. This, in conjunction with zig-zagging, allows you to maintain speeds that are not possible by just running.)
There is another thing with moving diagonally sometimes in 3D games, must depend on the game... (and I don't know if it happens with Quake)
Simply put, it is faster to run diagonally (still in a straight line) than just forward, or any "cardinal" direction on the controller/keyboard.
Let's say you move forward and to the right at the same time. The game just combines the two movements, for example 1 (arbitrary) "unit of distance" forward + 1 unit to the right.
Imagine a square: the diagonal is longer than the sides.
But as I said, some games do it and others don't. It seems more frequent when you don't use an analog stick to move, but I think that it works for games like Metroid Prime for example (correct me if I'm wrong).
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Bisqwit wrote:
Grincevent wrote:
Yes, any hit grants invulnerability for some time
Allright. Because in a pinch, where you really don't want to kill one enemy that is approaching you, you can hit another one (that does not die) and thus get past the weaker one with the invulnerability without harming it.
Thanks, but I knew it already ^^
I used it in some tries with the ravens: getting hit by a skeleton to help getting past... But in the end, the best result I had was without getting hit.
In fact, I had to redo the raven part after going back in time to change something and gain some frames (improving a damage boost), and after that, the skeleton behavior was changed just enough to not let me find a good occasion to take damage to save more time :p
I also take in consideration that life=time in this game. Taking a hit means losing a critical hit for the incoming boss, and a critical is equivalent to... Let's say 5 normal hits approximately.
To summarize:
-1st go: I can pass it with or without getting hit, but the hit doesn't save enough time, considering that I lose a critical for the battle (due to the layout of the level, it's hard to find a good spot to take damage)
-oops! I can improve a damage boost on the screen before that, let's do it
-oh no, the skeletons behave differently now. I have to redo it all
-2nd go: now I can't even find a decent way to get hit and gain time, I manage to pass unscathed, and in fact it is faster than my 1st go "no damage edition"
In the end I'm quite satisfied because it looks better to not get hit after all :p
Derakon wrote:
Awesome! That's great news. I look forward to seeing your run on the Workbench. :)
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Bisqwit wrote:
Grincevent wrote:
There is a way to pass stage 10 without killing anything, it's now official (yay!).
I couldn't go over the wall without the help of a bat (I tried with a merman, but it really seemed impossible after quite some tries...), so I had to "board the platforms!"
But it was easy in fact :p
Congratulations. P.S. If you get hit by a enemy, do you get invulnerable to further hits by other enemies for a moment, even for a small one?
Yes, any hit grants invulnerability for some time; I didn't time it, but I keep track of this "timer" with RAM watch. Useful to chain criticals on bosses, too: as long as you are in their hitbox when invulnerability wears off (and if you timed your attack to hit precisely at that moment, too), you can make a critical at the first frame possible just after becoming vulnerable again.
So, Simon gets invulnerable and also walks through enemies like if he weren't here, meaning small enemies or projectiles are not destroyed by contact.
By the way, medusa heads and hunchbacks are not killed when bumping into them, they can still be used to perform damage boosts.
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There is a way to pass stage 10 without killing anything, it's now official (yay!).
I couldn't go over the wall without the help of a bat (I tried with a merman, but it really seemed impossible after quite some tries...), so I had to "board the platforms!"
But it was easy in fact :p
All the ravens earlier were a pain (in tandem with the skeletons and small platforms), but it's done too, without getting hit to have more criticals against the mummies.
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A yes for Lester's quest Lester the unlikely.
The game looks bad, so it's satisfying to see it being abused, like in the end of the volcano, the vertical climbing.
And for all the reasons cited before: it looks optimized, it beats another run (on Nicovideo), etc...
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Bisqwit wrote:
The bats and ravens appear to have been discussed already extensively... You shouldn't do shortcuts at the cost of enemies dying.
As was the lack of critical hits in the mummy boss.
In the death boss (stage 15), it appeared to be somewhat arbitrary when you would kill the scythes and when you would not.
Otherwise, nice. I like this objective. Looks like the developers did not anticipate someone leaving the candles alone in the dracula fight. It looks nasty with the blinking.
There are only 2 hurdles concerning bats and ravens dying. (I don't want to just discuss it once, I'd prefer to have as many opinions as possible ^^)
-in stage 10 when taking the lower route on the moving platforms, I don't know yet if I'll find a way to avoid killing a bat. If I really can't find it and a bat must die, that means I'll take the shortcut above the ceiling instead.
-the second screen of stage 7. Ravens all over the place, small platforms (not a lot of room to manoeuver) and skeletons... This will be hard ^^
I don't know well how ravens and skeletons work, how to manipulate them, so if you have just some info on it, it would help a lot (even just something like: "yeah these enemies are indeed influenced by the frame counter and character position" is good info, I don't watch the RNG, it's above my skills I think :p).
What would you recommend about destroying the boss's projectiles?
I have 3 choices in mind:
1: it's ok to whip anything spawned by bosses, period
2: it's ok to destroy a boss projectile if I hit the boss at the same time (it's in the way)
3: I can't destroy any projectile
With 2 or 3, the fight vs Death will need a lot of work. The scythe that I whipped was really messing with the flow of the battle.
Anyway, thanks for your support ;)
Edit: in fact I used a critical on the mummy in that test run. As with everytime I'm hit in a boss battle.
