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Elaborating (sending ideas) about the fake desync.
I'll first copy what is already planned:
Fake a desync by writing something, but have the game ignore it. Long pause. "Something is wrong...". Mention a desync and start fiddling with the electronics to find the problem. TASBot resumes and drawa a screen from Gradius. (thanks to Invariel and SamsaraTF)Rick Roll (bonus points if we can make the drawing sounds sound like the song)
Write "Desync" on screen, wait, then write "JK": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwpFr9VZdng (thanks to Masterjun)
There are many possibilities for how it can be made to look like a desync.
1) This is the "longest" one, to do and to explain with text :P.
After drawing maybe one or two simple good answers (plain numbers written like a robot: perfect angles and straight lines), start giving answers that look completely then/or partially displaced; making the "desync" more and more apparent for each answer. Only for maybe 4 answers. That shouldn't waste too much time or questions, but we should give enough time for the viewers to realize what's happening and for people on the couch to play the surprise and fake messing with the cables (maybe add some pauses in the drawing or "?" answers in the game).
In terms of good and bad answers (after being interpreted by the game), let at least the first "desync" answer be good, then the rest are wrong (but the bot apparently tries to draw the right answer). As a bonus, the last group of "desync" answers, after being interpreted "wrongly" by the game, form a countdown.
Example:
The game asks, in order, for 5, 2, 6, 3, 7
Note: we have one or two perfectly good answers before that part.
When drawing the 5, the last line, or last two lines, are drawn a little to the right from where they should be, but it's ok for the game and is accepted.
After that, TASbot starts drawing the 2 but it's not centered anymore (just slightly to the right), and each line starts going more and more to the right side compared to the previous one. The game starts saying that the answers are wrong. Here, it says that a 4 was drawn.
Same with the 6, more to the right again, more space between lines. The game thinks it was a 3.
Same with 3 and 7: they continue the "shifting to the right" stuff, and are interpreted as 2 and 1 respectively, completing the countdown gimmick.
Then let TASbot explain in its way that it was a joke, like already planned.
2) This idea is quite similar but it implies that there is a timing problem (contrary to displaced inputs). Here we have the right answers, perfectly centered, etc... But by using pauses/delays (if it's possible to do it multiple times for a single question) to stop the game from interpreting the answers, so they pile up on top of each other. Con: no "hidden" countdown on the top screen. Pro: it only uses one question from the 100 we have.
The intent with these is to make it look like a really obvious desync in the eyes of the viewers.
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GoombaHeart wrote:
GIMP works well, I use that. Though there's no preview so you need to work out the gap between frames. You can just use it's crop tools. Though you need a video to JPEG converter.
I've used Gimp for the ones I did for the Castlevania page... But no video converter :P
In other words, I took screenshots for each frame, and then put them in different layers before converting all of this into a gif... Quite time consuming ^^.
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I'll start by quoting what I've posted near the beginning of the topic:
Grincevent wrote:
Thanks for all the work done to get that race going (and it's not finished).
I think I'll try to participate, even though I'm quite a slow TASer :D
Now that it's over, I want to thank everyone again, it was really fun, with a very good game choice :)
About the "slow TASer" part in the quote, I think I can confirm it, since I was very low on time :P
But that was part of the fun, hearing some Super Metroid music when I still had multiple rooms to do... That was quite intense! Luckily, the last parts of the game, where I was completely rushing, were not the most complex rooms.
I've completely missed a big shortcut (going through an inverter thing to skip a room) and other smaller tricks but am still happy, and surpised, with my results ^^.
So, about a hard deadline or the honor system for another race, I don't have a preference. The only problem I can see with a hard deadline is with timezones.
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There is also the option to do a TAS with someone you like. Or someone you'll have a great chance to end up liking if you didn't know him/her before.
TASing in a team can boost the motivation. You'll have someone to maybe "push" you a little and give you feedback. And you know it will be accurate feedback because that person will know how it is to TAS the game ;)
And it works both ways, you'll be a motivating teammate, too.
Working in a team is a special experience. Depending on the game, you'll maybe give each one a "role" (route planning, glitch hunting, testing, optimizing...), or TAS the same segments then compare (mini frame war), maybe TAS completely different parts then hex edit the whole thing (if the game permits it), etc...
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feos wrote:
Is there some secret option for enabling camhack for SA1? I downloaded vba-sadvhack.exe, ran Sonic Advance (U) [!].gba and mukki-sonicadvance.vbm in it and I see no camhack.
I have a problem launching it right now (says I lack "mfc71.dll"), but I remember that the camhack option was somewhere in the menus of the emulator...
Sorry if I'm not extremely helpful.
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kirbymastah wrote:
Maria suggested i post this here.
I was practicing for the amy race at SGDQ on my GBA SP on the plane, and I clipped out of bounds in angel island 2.
I had Amy with speedshoes. She grabbed the pulley, then hopped off, aerial hammer'd the chameleon and bounced off, then touched the upper lip of the tunnel, roughly where the red circle is:
(removed picture for clarity)
Amy then curled into a ball and zipped down a bit then got stuck in a wall. She was permanently stuck in a "lean against the right wall" animation and I couldn't do anything else.
I don't have a vid since this was on my actual GBA, but if someone wants to mess around with this, feel free to do so.
Maria told me about it earlier today. It's an interesting find... Even if I can't imagine a use for it.
Assuming that we could zip at the end and not just get stuck (and Amy likes to get stuck, she is not very "zip-friendly" ^^), I think the best we can get with that glitch is zipping right and ending "resurfacing" at the bottom of the next loop. We would have to climb the wall from here without the momentum that the loop would give us. And in the TAS, we in fact avoid that loop, taking a route somewhere over it without losing much speed (except when hitting the bumper), and more importantly, ending with more speed at that point.
I think there's not a lot of hope to use it for an improvement here, but I didn't mess with it at all, it's just theory, so...
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I think the best way to settle things is to go with some proof, since talking doesn't seem to lead anywhere.
Let's take the very first video:
Link to video
The first "evidence" is presented at the 45 seconds mark... And it's clearly, really clearly, fake; not edited I think, but fake in the sense that it doesn't show a "2nd sun", or even a celestial body. The thing dances around if you look closely (you don't have to concentrate much on it, it's quite obvious), like a reflexion on a lens or window, and if we look a little more to the left, we can see another, smaller, faint relexion (but less interesting for what the video tries to prove since it doesn't have the right shape). I lack some english vocabulary about these things, but it all looks like what we call "lens flare": multiple reflexions "tied" to each other, if you know what I'm trying to explain :p.
Well, just judging by the movement of that "2nd sun", it's obviously not a celestial body, unless it likes moving on its own in erratic and very fast ways... (consider the distance)
My conclusion: the maker of this video cannot be trusted, since he/she doesn't even verify the "evidence" and starts with a clear fake one. The only matter is that it serves the scenario presented.
I won't go and analyze every other picture/video. I'm sure some of them can be really hard to debunk, and I lack the tools and knowledge to to that work. The fact is, if even I could find a fake without trying, I wonder how I could believe in this stuff.
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The more I think about it, the more I ask myself: "why does it have to be a tier?".
The works we would end up putting in it will have some sort of uniqueness, after all, that means that we would have a hard time defining strict criteria for them. It's obviously a case by case thing.
I think we just need a place to showcase these "demo" runs/works. And if they qualify for a "normal" tier (moon, vault), they can also be published normally on the site; in fact they would get published first, then added to that showcase place.
Let's go with some examples.
We could have the "multiple games with one input file" in there, and they would also get published in moons.
We can have the *GDQ events (SMW turns into pong+snake or into SMB, Pokémon plays Twitch...).
We can have the infinite SMB2 run, even if it can't be published because it doesn't finish the game, the Pokémon pi run doesn't finish the game either.
I think I've explained the idea enough. The "runs" would be picked reagrdless of what happens to them in the workbench, if they even go to the workbench to begin with :P
They'll need to be handpicked, and that's another debate, maybe one debate for each run.
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Hum, it can lead to a questionable movie (if there are credits at the end of world 11, for example), but also a very boring one because of the grinding, or repeating all the levels.
Can it be done as a "new game +" kind of run?
I'm not only asking you, I'm asking the potential judge for such a movie.
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Weegeechan15 wrote:
Alright! :) Thanks guys.
Just a quick question:
Does a verification movie have to start from a power on? Or can it start at the beginning of the final boss fight?
From power on. But it doesn't have to be optimized. Try not to make it extremely long, though ^^ (avoid losing lives and stuff like that, for example, easy with TAS tools, even in real time).
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No way :(
I dind't know her well (never had a direct interaction with her as far as I remember), but I know that she was always helping people on IRC or the forums when people needed help with Dolphin, for example.
Goodbye, Rachel.
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Anyway, for a case like the one we have here, I think it's not a big problem.
If you submit a movie that ends the inputs early (end at the hexagon thing), and if enough people say it's not good enough to stop at that point, the judge can ask you to "finish" the movie (continue adding inputs and enter your name). It's easy to do and the case will be closed.
It's really a case by case thing.
As you can see, it's a recurring debate on TASVideos and the answer depends on the game. It wasn't a bad idea to ask here first ;)
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I've witnessed the hard work that went into this run, but didn't see what happened after Angel Island... And you managed to surprise me again, Maria ^^. I didn't see the zipping coming in Egg Rocket for example. Voting yes, of course.
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Asdrien wrote:
Grincevent wrote:
I was caught off guard by the amount of entertainment you managed to put into this 2 player run. Good job and yes vote, of course!
I followed your advice !!!
I'm happy if I've been helpful :)
But the choice of making it a 2 player run (after getting feedback from a single player test run) was entirely yours. I think that was wise for entertainment and didn't expect that, for some reason.
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ars4326 wrote:
Another quirky mindset that has helped me in TASing is the idea that you're playing an entirely different video game, 1 frame at a time (with the goal of completing as fast as possible, of course).
I've always thought about it that way, kind of. But let's go deeper: what kind of game does it become when you start TASing it?
I'd say... Some sort of puzzle/strategy game about time travel and alternate dimensions.
Now we have to sell that game to the public and write the back of the cover :D
"Try to change and ultimately control what happens through the whole timeline to create the ideal dimension at the end!
Will you go for speed? Will you go for style? What about both? Or will you just color a dinosaur for fun?
The choices are endless, so are their consequences, but always stay on your toes, the fearsome Grue is watching you!
*some features may require a subscription to TASVideos Pro"
Unfortunately, the game may not be received well by the press, examples:
The game is ridiculously hard, it's an endless loop of restarting the same parts over and over because the player loses frames for no apparent reason, and nothing is explained in-game. -Happy Casual Player MagazineThe game is pathetically easy, there are too many checkpoints, anyone can finish it in one sitting without seeing the game over screen once. -True Hardcore Gamer MagazineAmateurish. The developers didn't even try to apply special effects to the time travel mechanics, what a missed opportunity. And the framerate is worse than subpar. -SuperHypeGames.com
Yes, I was bored :P
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I agree for the star suggestion. What other shooter can be as beautiful to watch? And if we take into account the polarity and score system...
Watching these 2 ships "dance" and change color around all the stuff that is happening is quite something.
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TASeditor wrote:
Tangent wrote:
In a word no. And an optimized AI is not equivalent to a TAS at all. Mainly, it can't predict the future to make a suboptimal decision now that leads to a more optimal outcome later.
Not quite true. Theoretically it is possible to branch off different attempts for a limited amount of frames by copying the games process and test them before the real time for one frames has passed. It's limited though, predictions far in the future would need a supercomputer.
But there are numerous cases where an AI would have trouble, even with the best computer in the world, I think.
For example, finding the technodrome in Ninja Turtles for NES, wherever it appears. And that is nothing compared to actually making it appear at the optimal place to begin with.
