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No apple?
I suppose it's not necessary, but I find it such a useful weapon because it can hit multiple enemies.
Haven't played this game in about three forevers.
Edit: Okay, I'm watching now and I see you make a number of mistakes. You did say it's a test run, so I guess that's okay. Just make sure you avoid these in the completed run:
1. You collect too many vials. You go out of your way to pick up some that you don't need. In that first room with four "7 vial" pickups, you pick up three and then pick up the fourth on the way out. You probably only need one, and it wastes time collecting the others. Later on, there are two "7 vial" pickups in the same room and you still have a crapload but still go out of your way to pick them up as well.
2. A couple of missed shots here and there.
3. In downtown, where you're heading straight south, it looks good, but at one point you move to the right to collect some spirit points and whatnot, but unless the movement of this game is particularly strange (which is possible) it wastes time to move east since you need to turn west at the most southern area.
4. I notice at a few points you actually bump into walls. Make sure you fix that.
I'm guessing you don't care about the small stuff for just a test, and that's probably the reason behind most of the above, but just keep them in mind.
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Hmm. The formula I posted actually isn't correct because you start with 10 newspapers. So where it says "number of refills" it should say "number of refills + 1"
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Twisted Eye wrote:
Isn't it nice how a thread originally intended for 100% KILLS ALL DEATH ALL VIOLENCE got turned into a nice pleasant Paperboy hijack? aaahhhhh....
Actually, this was a good end result. It's not *exactly* the same thing, but same basic principle and we've arrived at something actually worth doing now.
So, considering you can now get up to three newspapers in one mailbox without slowing down, we can assume that it's possible to get every single newspaper into a mailbox.
Also: Picking up a bundle of papers gives you 50 points.
So the maximum score for each level before the bonus areas would be:
((Number of refills x 50) + (Number of refills x 10 x 700))
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Vatchern wrote:
100% kill is not a very impressive first goal for a movi imo... Like say if you had a Megaman game, and you made it a second goal to kill 100% of the enemies and succeeded without losing time, that would be better.
I suggest taking a take that would be neat to kill all enemies while being the fast as possible.
That's more or less my point. If the game requires you to slow down in order to kill every enemy, it's not going to be very fun to watch. Megaman X for instance might be doable for a 100% kills run. Only problem there is that enemies respawn and sometimes an enemy you already killed will come back if you so much as scroll a few pixels backwards (which you need to do for some of the vertical areas.)
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Not for a shooter. That would be too... expected. That's what first person shooters are for.
I'd like it to be something that you wouldn't expect a 100% kills run for. Also, Doom already has established TAS runs.
A 100% kill run for a platformer could be amazing if you find the right game and the right tricks.
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I'm thinking it should be a popular game. Something that would surprise people. I'd like for it to be a platformer just because it would be unexpected.
The SMB warpless run kills a lot of enemies and it just makes me think there has to be a way to get all of them.
(By the way, I did a test of SMB3 to see if I could find a way to dispose of that venus fire trap. It looked ugly.)
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I've been trying to think of a good game that would work for a 100% kills TAS. It has to be something where it's not necessary to kill most of the enemies, so that doing so would be more entertaining.
The rules:
1. Kill any non-invulnerable enemy that appears on screen. Some games spawn enemies infinitely so it would be impossible to kill them all, so the rule is "if they appear on screen"
2. Somewhat optional, depending on how reasonable to do it: No warps or shortcuts. Meaning, never skip any opportunities to kill enemies.
I'd thought of a few mario games, but each have their own specific problems:
Super Mario Bros.: Right at the beginning is at least one goomba that's impossible to kill without greatly slowing down. Also, there are a lot of buzzy beetles throughout the game and there's only one way to kill them, which is to hit them with a shell. Killing two buzzies would require you to kick them both in opposite directions, bank them off a wall, and back into each other. Otherwise, you'd need to kill them with a koopa shell and fireball it after.
Super Mario Bros. 2: Wouldn't be particularly impressive, and you'd have to keep slowing down to throw things at enemies. They also respawn if you scroll back.
Super Mario Bros. 3: Many enemies can only be killed by the hammer suit, and that means you'd need to get the hammer suit before the first castle, in order to kill the Dry Bones. Even if that were possible, right at the beginning of World 1-1 is a Venus Fire Trap that you can't easily kill. You'd need to grab the koopa shell, run back, collide it with the plant, then run back. Too much wasted time.
Contra: Not impressive enough. Even though enemies come from all directions, when you have the spread gun, it's pretty easy to just kill anything that appears on screen. I'd imagine you could do this on a console.
Metroid: WAY too many problems here.
I'm convinced there has to be some game where this would make for a great TAS but I can't find it. If there was some way to do it for SMB3, that would be great, but because of the problems above, I don't think it's possible.
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Dark Fulgore wrote:
I agree with JXQ and Highness, at least a fight against Jade and glitches in Fatalities... and you need to do more long combos... or uses glitches to do the long combos...some fights are cool... but when you fight only with Shang Tsung vs Shang Tsung are boring for me...
Vote: No
Oh, come on. He did one fight with only Shang Tsung and I thought it was nice to mix it up. And the Kintaro fatality was rather unexpected. You have to hold low punch for the entire second round to do that, right?
This seems like a dumb reason to vote no.
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This actually made me curious about the Super Mario Bros ROM map. The site listed above only has a small amount of information about them.
I had experimented with game genie codes a long time ago and don't remember all the codes now, so I was hoping to find out where things like collision detection were stored in the ROM map.
I do remember these:
PLASNA - Makes every powerup function as a mushroom/fireflower.
NAPALT - Makes you dark grey all over, like a shadow.
I'd found other weird effects. One code I created caused the first few bars of the overworld theme to constantly repeat, and one caused you to constantly slide instead of walk. Wish I could remember how I came up with them.
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Heh. You guys haven't scratched the surface.
Battleship
Duck Hunt (If you could record the shots anyway.)
Jeopardy
Pictionary
Wheel of Fortune
The thing is, as ludicrous an idea as most of those are, with the exception of Battleship and Duck Hunt, there actually is a smidgeon of logic behind doing one, namely luck manipulating so that all the answers are the shortest possible. They'd just be really boring to watch.
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http://hyena.kiwibonga.com/Double%20Dragon%20Moronity.fcm
Nothing special... no glitches or anything... just me screwing around with Mode B in Double Dragon ([U]). I thought it was sort of funny. The fun part is manipulating the CPU player to do stupid things like run into the wall.
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I can't shake the feeling that this game could be worth doing a TAS of. Shooting for the maximum score sounds like a good goal, even if it would take a while, but I think the time could possibly be shortened.
Some ideas:
- The enemies that appear onscreen can be luck manipulated. So it's possible to manipulate it so that all the enemies that appear are tire-slashers (killing normal cars loses you points, bulletproof cars are bulletproof, and you have to slow down to kill the limos.)
- After getting the highest score, you'd want to kill yourself. You have three lives, so you'd have to find creative ways to lose these earlier on without losing a lot of time. Solution: I know that towards the end of the boat areas, if you crash at the right spot, you respawn on the road as a car so you can bypass the "convert back to car" sequence which probably takes just as long. You also gain extra lives as the game commences. I think you'd probably be looking at more boat sequences than lives all around, so this can't be done every time.
It's really hard to say how long it would take to reach the max score, even if you manipulate it well enough so that a tire-slasher appears every minimal spawn period, so I still don't know how long a TAS we're talking about here. If it's unavoidable to complete it in less than 90 minutes, as was suggested earlier, this would be excrutiatingly boring to watch.
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Yeah. Super Metroid has to be my favourite game of all time. I remember when I first played it, I borrowed it from a friend and it wasn't even his. He had borrowed it from his friend. A lot of borrowing was going around.
After I played it once, I was instantly addicted and played it about ten times in a row, trying to beat my previous time and still get a high item percentage. Eventually I was getting 96 to 98% in four hours before I finally returned it. Not exactly an impressive feat as far as speedruns go, but this was a day or two after playing it for the first time.
Love the atmosphere. That's what makes the game what it is.
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*Applause.*
There are one or two parts where it seems like there's just a little bit of an unnecessary wait, but 99% of the time this is very fast and very entertaining.
I hear this game causes desyncs with Snes9x as well, so congrats for enduring.
I loved the glitched fatalities. Although, my brother tells me that there's a glitched stage fatality that would have been fun as well, in the acid pool arena. Apparently if you're standing in just the right spot, you can knock the enemy into the wall instead of the pool and they still turn into a skeleton and float away. Not sure how to do this, but I'm sure there's an FAQ around somewhere.
Anyway, very very nice work. Big yes vote.
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Okay, here's the thing. I'm about half-way done level 3. There are six levels in all, so I'm about half-done the whole game. Actually, probably less than half because level 2 is one of the shortest levels.
I guess starting over would be best. Although, I don't have to start right at the beginning. The first punch is delivered fairly early in the first level, but everything up to then is pretty much optimal.
Interestingly enough, I spent about two or three days doing the first level to begin with and spent at least a week hex-editing later when I found out I made a mistake. So I guess redoing that would not be too hard. (A couple of parts were a pain, but hex-editing those very short parts wouldn't be too difficult.)
So I guess the plan is:
1. Make a backup.
2. Go back to the first punch. Maybe even sooner. There's one or two parts early on that I'm not 100% convinced are optimal, so I can try those out.
3. Rerecord everything from scratch.
4. Hex-edit parts of the backup where easier.
5. Collapse.
It also occurs to me, that one of the guys I hit with stun gas might actually be faster to punch than stun. At one point I stop walking for a few frames because I'd just thrown one and it takes a little while before I can fire the next one. If it only takes three frames to punch the guy, why wait six frames to avoid him?
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Urrrgghghghghhh!!!!!!!!
That terrible, TERRIBLE, feeling when you discover a trick later on in the game that would have saved you tons of time earlier.
What do I do now? :/
After all that agonizing with hex editing just to finish the opening dialogue faster, now I discover a trick that could save me possibly hundreds of frames.
Anyway, the trick I learned was this:
Normally, Grant's Punch attack has a large number of frames during which you stay perfectly still. For this reason, I avoid killing enemies unless absolutely necessary. Even still, I kill dozens of enemies simply because they'll get in my way and prevent me from getting by more quickly.
I found that if you punch, then immediately change directions the frame afterwards, the punching animation cancels, but if you managed to score a hit in the first punch frame it still counts. In other words, a punch that I've had to use against many opponents, that can take 20 or 30 frames to do, I now know how to do in 3. Some enemies have required two punches, and that means about 40 to 60 frames that *might* be doable in 6.
I don't know what to do now. If I have to start all over again, it's going to royally suck. If I redo certain parts and hex edit it will suck nearly as much if not more. A huge hassle considering how this game works.
If I just continue on as usual, the game will not be optimal.
I'm almost ready to just give up. :(
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This does look like it can be improved a little bit.
First, there are a few areas where even if the timing is somewhat optimal, it could be done in a smoother, more entertaining way. I'm talking about where you slow down to avoid obstacles. At one point I noticed you jumped so that it would slow you enough to barely avoid the obstacle. A better way would probably be to jump earlier so that you've already slowed enough to miss it, and then you can run right past it.
At one point in the mall, I noticed you had to move backwards to avoid getting hit by bouncing shoes. If there is any way at all to avoid them without going backwards, do it.
And finally, the boss of the second level drops a suitcase that you launch up at her and miss. Avoid missed shots like this.
Keep it up. I think this has a lot of potential.
