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hero of the day wrote:
If I recall correctly some key items have random placement, so luck manipulation would play a huge factor in getting a good time.
Yes. As a matter of fact, the first randomly placed item (The pass in the first level) seems to spawn in the closest possible place when the game starts optimally (I skip each dialogue at the earliest possible frame, etc) so the luck was manipulated for me. :D
As far as I remember, all randomized items only appear in one of two places, so luck manipulation would be 50/50 and thus not hard at all.
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Sorry if I don't completely understand what you mean, but from what I gathered:
First, I don't exactly see the point. It seems to me that the only reason you'd want to reproduce these videos on a console would be to trick people into thinking it was done normally (which is NOT good.)
Second, certain consoles--the NES in particular--seem to be rather random with their memory. When emulated, a game runs the same time every time, but on occasion strange things happen on the actual console. I've noticed times on SMB where a goomba just doesn't appear where it's supposed to, and having a run where Mario jumps on a goomba that doesn't actually exist, would very quickly desync. Maybe it's a problem with reading the cartridge... I don't know.
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I agree. Just a few weeks ago I downloaded a run of Out of this World and it desynced after the first level. (Amazingly it ran through the first level flawlessly.)
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Okay, I decided to try it out. This game is actually very easy to optimize for a TAS, which is funny because the game is really hard to play normally.
You'd probably have to be familiar with the game to find the run very entertaining, but there is some universal appeal I think.
The basic tactic is to constantly use Grant. He's the fastest of the three agents. His attack is close range, but it's just as powerful as Max's gun, and his secondary attack is extremely useful to stun enemies (and thus prevent them from blocking his way so he can just ease his way past them.)
I may experiment with some of the others for certain areas. Max might be better for certain boss battles because of his range, and Nicholas can be useful for dealing multiple hits with his boomerang, or using disguises to run past enemies (if Grant's gas doesn't do the job.)
I may also switch to other agents quickly so they can take damage instead of Grant (if he runs low on health) which in the long run can save time and prevent me from having to seek out medical kits.
Since two of the levels are vehicle levels (fast-paced racing/shooting, similar to Spy Hunter) that alone would make this very well-suited for a TAS.
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I don't think this is enough of a problem that we need to take such drastic steps. And I agree that it would be too much of a hassle for potential fans.
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Can't say for the others, but a run of Demon Sword was just added to the workbench, and I know someone's working on Bart Vs. the Space Mutants.
Oh, and you should probably rename the thread title. It sounds like you're asking for ROMs.
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I think this game is well-suited for a no-damage run, anyway. It seems pretty effortless to avoid getting hurt, except from bosses. Even then, if there was some way to get injured without dying, my guess is it would slow your attacks more than otherwise.
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The creators of this game really got lazy towards the end there. The first three levels are well-designed (except for one part in Level 2 where you can actually fall and be trapped forever--obviously avoided in the TAS) and have a decent length.
Levels 4, 5, and 6 are very, very, short and pretty straightforward.
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This is a little off-topic for Zelda, but I've been thinking about a very simple game that might benefit from Bisqbot. Bisqwit had mentioned in the Monopoly thread how difficult it would be to process a 30-second video with the wide range of input options.
How hard would it be, if there were only six different possible inputs? "Up, Up/left, Up/right, Up and A, Up/Left and A, Up/Right and A" for instance.
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I was going to ask about the jumping, but your entry text explained that.
Only question I have then, is, why does your attack speed change so often? Sometimes you'll be slashing at a boss rapidly, then suddenly you inexplicably go slower, then speed up, then slow down.
Other than that, this seems very well done.
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I know it was done as a joke, but I actually found the speedwalk of SMB entertaining. Maybe that's just because I wasn't aware of the walljump trick before then.
The SMB3 run has more applications than just that, though.
Chef Stef does make a valid point, though. Unless there's a way to glitch through those areas (would be awesome if there was), I guess B-less is impossible.
I'm convinced if there's a way to make this work, it would be entertaining... except, now that I think of it, the scrolling levels would probably be very boring, and World 8 has many of those.
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Are any of you actually watching the video before saying "bad idea"?
I found it actually fairly amazing how he managed to do those two short levels without B. The no-run SMB run was cool, but there weren't hills to slide down in that.
Anyway, I'd suggest to forget about coinless and just concentrate on B-less. And your question about opening chests: I'd say, don't press B at all.
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JXQ wrote:
I don't understand why this wouldn't obsolete the former run.
Runs of this game are to show off luck manipulation, which is all based on when the player inputs what. Once the input is no longer needed, the luck has been manipulated.
I say it shouldn't obsolete the former run because, although the input ends earlier, the computer player takes longer to bankrupt.
It's faster... but it's not.
The original is entertaining because the computer is bankrupted insanely fast. This is entertaining because the computer eventually bankrupts themselves. They're fun for very different reasons.
If anything, I think I prefer the original.
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Ozmodiar wrote:
2 things: regardless of whether or not the concept will work or if it's liked...
a) I don't think you need to hold "Y" throughout the entire thing. It got on my nerves.
Then turn off input display.
b) Your speed for the last little bit of YI3 was 48.. (after the screen moved up because you were on the ground for more than a frame or whatever)..
Yeah. Unfortunately, I tried about a hundred ways to avoid getting the dragon coin on top of one of the bridges and still stay at 49 and eventually I settled for 48.
Since it wasn't a serious run, I don't think that really matters.
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I think it's probably less boring than it sounds. (Narrowly avoiding stuff is always fun) but yeah, it would get old. Especially since I can't take the star road shortcut (which means doing a whole bunch of extra levels and all the same way)
I guess I just like unusual concepts for speedruns.
Oh well. I'll come up with something good eventually. I think all the good ideas for Super Mario World are already taken. I'll just find something else.
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I've been toying with this idea and experimenting a little bit and I think it's possible. Here's how it works:
1. Collect no powerups. No mushrooms, fire flowers, feathers, starmen, 1up mushrooms, and so on. This also means avoiding the "Continue" checkpoints which give you the benefit of a mushroom when you trigger them.
2. Collect no dragon coins. Not a single one.
3. Kill only the enemies that are absolutely necessary. Such as bosses. Avoid every single enemy that it is in any way possible to do so.
4. Never gain any 1ups in any way. (That means collecting a maximum of 99 coins, for instance)
5. Less stringent requirements: Avoid collecting coins, and avoid anything that will gain you any points, so long as it is possible to do so without slowing down or violating the above rules.
Obviously the best way to get a low score is to wait until the timer runs down, but that's no fun, is it? Some coins are just unavoidable without severely losing speed too, and that wouldn't be entertaining. That's why this is just a general rule and not a strict one.
Note that this means I can't take the star road shortcut because it would require smashing blocks, and that means at least getting a mushroom.
So, I'd need to work out a route that gets me from start to finish as quickly as possible without taking the star road.
Would this be worth watching? A concern of mine is that this would start to get old after a couple of levels since there's no flying or throwing fireballs, just a lot of running, jumping, and dodging. I'd like to think I can still keep it interesting, but I thought I'd see what reactions there would be to this idea before I decide.
Comments?
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Just to sort of show you that webslinging is the most optimal way to get through the first level, I made this short movie of me trying to get through by running and only jumping when there's an obstacle. It doesn't go all through the whole level, I just wanted to show how slow the landing animation is, and how much of a waste of frames there is when you do high jumps.
http://hyena.kiwibonga.com/SPIDER~1.fcm
