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notes:
jump saves time for getting downstab. it is, of course, possible to beat the game without downstab. i've never timed it because i'm not a Crazy Person, but yeah. jump after hammer.
based on quickmath, level 3 sword should save ~70 frames over level 4 sword. Subtracting one accept and adding two cancels saves 120, adds 8 hits to gooma and 16 to barba. unless my brain is forgetting how much health bosses have.
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Arc wrote:
Is there already a complete list of the Glitch Town right exits? Because there are many Glitch Towns.
Rauru -> King's Tomb
Ruto -> Mountains
Saria -> South Saria
Mido -> King's Tomb
I'm pretty sure all towns in east hyrule lead to the ocean. It's been a long, long time since I looked at the East, though.
Arc wrote:
The area that especially needs research is fairy glitching in palaces. We need to figure out the travel route before getting into experience plans.
Just glancing at the maps, here, there's not tons of places to look;
P1 has nothing
P2 only has the block room, which will take you to the entrance of P1
P3 has the block room, which should take you back to the entrance, and the elevator room, with the stalfos knight, which should basically just be able to skip the elevator.
P4 looks interesting. It looks like you can get on some ceiling and take some non-exits where I can't guess where they might go.
P5 has the block room, I'm not sure you could use it for anything
P6 Maybe you can skip a couple of rooms, but certainly the ra/block room, after the fall if your magic is high enough
Arc wrote:
Inzult wrote:
As a side effect of fairy fall, another minute is cut if you can efficiently get to level 6 magic. This allows you to skip an extra magic container, probably the one in death mountain. Also, it means a fundamentally different leveling strategy.
Does this comment refer to going through Maze Palace with 6 magic containers at Magic-6? I think that using death could possibly cut it down to 5 containers. How much time is lost getting each container:
I was referring to the T-Bird skip, you need to cast Jump, then fairy twice with perhaps only an opportunity for a blue jar. I tend to look at the end state and work backwards. A good finish needs ?-6-1.
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OK then. As a very rough estimate, inclusion or exclusion of just this glitch should be a difference of ~2 minutes, depending on which route through maze island is best and how the overworld spawns overall pan out. The overworld path overall is minimally affected, besides the area around P4. The kill route is affected for P4 and P6.
However, it is worth noting that Arc wasn't suggesting a new category with the difference being just this glitch.
If you'd like that in terms of differing content, I'm afraid it gets a bit more complex.
Healer Glitch but no scroll lock cuts ~4 minutes from the run and affects the leveling route, with the loss of 100-some XP in the early game.
I haven't thought about how adding only fairy fall will affect almost the entirety of the game, but the skips I can think of off the top of my head after P5 (Kasuto, New Kasuto + Thunderbird) are around about 3 minutes worth. There are opportunities earlier on to use it in the various palaces, but I can't even really guess what the saving would be overall. e: i forgot, this likely requires taking the jump spell, which adds 1 minute back into the run.
As a side effect of fairy fall, another minute is cut if you can efficiently get to level 6 magic. This allows you to skip an extra magic container, probably the one in death mountain. Also, it means a fundamentally different leveling strategy.
We're getting close to 10 9 minutes, only glossing over more obvious applications, without looking at the fine details and routing it all out precisely. Hopefully it gives you a better idea of what's on the table.
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100% some major glitches makes about as much sense to me as any% some major glitches. I mean, I get differentiating a some major glitches run. But on the face of it, it sounds like the same run, only you don't get to use the glitches to actually skip anything. Besides Thunderbird, I suppose.
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If you use scroll lock without l+r and you require all crystals, you probably only use scroll lock for palace 7 anyway. I'd prefer encounter skips in the run under production, but all crystals, no l+r works well too for something down the line.
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Pokota wrote:
I say we take a breath and think for a moment. Rather than ask "what glitches are/aren't allowed", let's look at the goals instead and ask "what glitches are most useful and entertaining to watch in pursuit of this goal?"
1) Any%
2) All Crystals
3) 100% (all crystals, magic containers, heart containers, spells... what all goes into 100%, anyway?)
most useful?
1) l+r and scroll lock
2) l+r and scroll lock
3) l+r and scroll lock (all crystals, magic/heart containers, spells, items and up/downstab)
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given the glitches outlined, you'll be able to skip thunderbird, which allows you to skip thunder and old kasuto, which allows you to skip new kasuto for one thing. or is that three things?
you will probably have to get jump though
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if we're moving to 3 categories, i think it it should be 1) as glitchless as possible 2) anything goes besides l&r 3) anything goes
this also takes a bit of work. As glitchless as possible might well be slower than the published movie, even.
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It's not technically glitchless, it has skipped entering a name, for example, for a long time. Nor does it not abuse the way the game handles screen transitions, we use that to get onto ceilings after a fall. Those are both very minor and don't much affect the overall gameplay, though. I'm not sure you could even make a glitchless run if you wanted to, there's some janky stuff going on that you never even see; based on how the game keeps track of what overworld items are taken and what aren't, it's possible that something is wrong and you'd never even notice. Who's to say a red jar somewhere isn't flagged as taken by accident.
The consideration for this particular abuse being in this branch of the tas is more aesthetic, I think. Is this more of a "whoa, neat" trick, or a "this isn't zelda 2" trick
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Functionally, this seems different than falling off the top of the screen as fairy. What seems to be going on is that the single map trap screens have only one exit but where you end up is based on which way you're moving? It doesn't work on the tunnel to palace 3, for example. On screens like that, you just use the exit that is there, regardless of which way you move over it. Same for the second exit in Saria. So you couldn't skip bagu if you magically already had fairy when you got there. You can't warp from SW Hyrule to NE Hyrule. Fairying off the top of the screen uses a unique exit that isn't meant to be accessible.
Also, you don't need to be fairy to do this. As Link, if you are completely still, 1 subpixel away from the screen transition, hit towards the edge, then away, it works the same. There's no reason you couldn't walk at normal speed, manipulate your subpixel (if possible!), hit a&b right before you transition to kill your speed, then towards and away to skip any trap you want.
I've convinced myself it's fair game, and can't come up with a method to destroy the game with it (so far). I haven't tested up then down on elevators, though...
nothing happens
Arc wrote:
If I were to use this glitch, I would use it on the 3 bridge crossings (Traps 16 and 15), and then I would pick up that red jar at Secret 20 and use the glitch on all 3 Traps in The Valley of Death.
and on the traps on the way to darunia. and maze island. and on the way to hidden town/palace 6 area.
it's work.
edit: abusing exits in this manner is a bit gray, i suppose, and i wouldn't blame you if you didn't do it either. perhaps some viewer feedback is in order.
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The next big 6 enemy after the red IK at the door is another red IK in front of some glove blocks, which force you to stop. So It shouldn't waste additional time, I don't think. If you can also get a small P Bag to drop from a sword beam wrap, I think it could be possible to not have to slow down there either.
Alternately, you could pick up a blue jar after the first door, change the P Bag on the red IK to a red jar, and be able skip the first key all together, I think. But then that's 200 XP to make up, and I'm not sure how that would work.
Even more alternately, you could spawn a red IK at the entrance in stead of a jar, pick up a blue jar before the raft, then skip a paltamu. IKs are easier to kill without slowing down.
e: i think the last 2 require picking up the magic container. unless i'm mathing wrong.
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Arc wrote:
I'm not sure how well known it is that although the number 300 appears when you kill Rebonack (boss of Island), he actually gives 301 XP. So I'm going to go into the fight with 899 XP to show the glitch. There's no unnecessary XP in the run.
I know that people who run the game know, but even sort of enthusiasts who linger in the Zelda 2 twitch channels tend to be surprised when it's pointed out.
Arc wrote:
5 frames - Island overworld. Real interesting one here. You can manipulate the enemies that appear on the island overworld by delaying Link's exit from the 'fairy required' room. But, at first, it all seems to balance out.[...]
I think I've mentioned it in the past, but delaying frames in rooms further back from the last room you're in changes the overworld spawns in different ways. I'm not sure what seeds the RNG, but there are a lot of options for manipulation, if you have a lot of rooms before the spawns happen.
It goes without saying I didn't worry too much about doing this 100% optimally.
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Aha, I knew my death at the glove was a bit slow, but saving over a second there is very unexpected. Nice one.
How did you save 3 frames taking the jar? I assume there's some method to be at a higher speed when you take the jar that I simply overlooked rather than being further to the left.
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Arc wrote:
Edit: I have an idea. I'll try to have the red daira at the elevator throw an axe right as I kill it. Then the axe would hit Link right as he exits the screen. I take the necessary damage, but there's no damage animation on the next screen.
I didn't notice there was a death screen frame rule. I imagine trying to take damage here would make it hard to leave the screen after the EXP from the kill begins to tick. It's unfortunate I was never able to find a way to take damage at the edge of the screen anywhere, though, so if you can do it good on you.
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The good news is it is very easy to add more lag. If you were in to that sort of thing. Moving him farther to the left or right doesn't seem to help, and neither does hitting him with the beam sword, which always helped delay the red dairas axes.
I tried jumping him at the last possible time where you could still land in his little trough and make the jump up the stairs while keeping him close to my left, in the hopes that I could block the boomerang, but he throws too late for that and plus he throws a second.
The only other thing that comes to mind as a possibility, if your beam sword crosses off the left side of the screen while an enemy spawns on the right, you can damage it that way. I don't think the screen is big enough to damage the 6th octorok that way but like, i dunno. This train of thought is getting derailed big time.
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That's smart. I didn't consider the effect acceleration would have given a specific starting subpixel position in that situation. It follows that stabbing the dairas at a slightly higher (or lower, depending on direction) subpixel could lead to reaching the end of screen trigger slightly sooner than in the published run as well. Another situation I overlooked.
Though, as you know already, the end of screen trigger is quite wide, so it might be tough to get far enough ahead to make a difference. It's worth looking at, since I didn't optimize for that.
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That's exactly what I found when originally making the movie, the boost itself is very particular. I think we even got lucky in that the ache rng had it moving mostly right with no manipulation. Saving some time on the daira section later would be great, though. Also, I wish you luck skipping the health refill.
