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DK64_MASTER wrote:
Or does the game end before you can finish your doubles roll?
I would imagine it ends before you can roll again, even though I've not experienced it. The 'collect $50 form each player' card is the only way I could think of doing this. edit: even so, you'd have to land on luxury tax or something afterwards. I'm not sure how to whittle everyone down so far...
If I may throw this out there: bankrupt a player with mortgaged properties, but don't have enough assets to cover the 10% needed to be paid to the bank upon transfer of mortgaged properties. edit: again... everyone would have to have little cash...
My best guess would be that the 10% is ignored when the last player gets the mortgaged properties. But who knows?
edit again: what happens when two players trade mortgaged properties, but both don't have the money to cover the 10%? Hmm...
By the way, I'm planning on watching the run when I get home. If it's better than the one you canceled, I'd have to vote yes ;)
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Rising Tempest wrote:
You probably could skip that guy, but you'll have to kill an extra lizard dude on the way to or from kasuto (in the cave). This might cost frames due to the un-even-ness of the ground, so you may want to kill the ironknuckle anyway.
We came to the same conclusion at the same time, it seems :D
I'll take that as a good sign.
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AngerFist wrote:
May I ask how much you have gained so far?
1361 frames, as of the exit of Palace 5. Short of a major route overhaul, I'm not sure how much else can be saved.
Rising Tempest wrote:
I noticed something with a daira back at the hammer cave that might save like five frames if you want to redo everything :P
ugh. No thanks :(
We'll save that one for next time ;)
And I'll keep that in mind for palace 6. Maybe I can skip that reflect cast. Come to think of it, maybe I can skip the orange knight in palace 5 and use fairy on the elevator in stead. I haven't looked too closely at the 6 count in palace 6 yet.
edit: It is possible to skip all the above mentioned, but it seems the only way to kill the red lizalfos is to slow down. Therefore, killing one to get the drop for palace 6 = in. Killing another to skip the orange knight in palace five = out.
And thanks, Serj. :D
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Up to Palace 4
I have been unable to find a way to kill the blue stalfos' in the small holes in palace 4 without slowing down. Therefore, I'm going to go back to the cave with the kid and redo everything from there. I'll kill the lizalfos in there and skip one of those stalfos.
Should be faster. Plus I'll try to find out what happened to those 20-odd frames I lost going to and from the town. But I spent an embarassing amount of time on that section already.
enjoy.
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Rising Tempest wrote:
Maybe, it will help you in those few parts you were having a bit of problems?
Yeah, cool man, cool. That solution for the Jump cave is definately better than what I came up with. I'm not sure why, but my enemy group afterwards is a bit different from yours. But that still works.
Definately worth the price of admission, thanks ;D
edit: On closer inspection, it seems that my wait is still 4 frames slower. My best guess is that not getting the first jar right away changed the timing.
The most obvious question this raises is when is the best time to get the jar, then? I don't *think* you even need it until after Palace 3. Or further, will a shorter or longer name change the enemy formation as well?
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I'm done getting the hammer, about 7 and a half seconds fater than the published run. Here's the hammer run, I hope you enjoy it.
Improvements to be done:
Skip the 2 goriyas in the jump cave (stun & run) saves ~50 frames
32 frames are lost on the overworld due to a bad luck. Points can be made up on small enemies, or switching which darias I skip. Find out how many frames waiting in the cave it takes to get a different enemy group.
(edit: I squeezed 20 frames out of this.)
Save 10 frames by entering the door to the bridge guy's house one frame later. If you wait the extra frame, Link spawns much farther left.
Possible improvements:
Reduce lag in the room with the 2 spear guys.
Figure out a way to get past the octorok staircase. Reduce lag in this room by killing the first 3 octoroks.
Consider jumping over one (or two) extra orange dairas, and kill red ones so I don't have to jump over axes. If that's slower, try to manipulate fewer axes to jump over.
Actually test if stabbing the wall on an up elevator saves time. I'm not sure if it does, but I did try it to see if it works...
(edit: I'm an idiot. You can walk while the elevator goes up. I knew that already. To fix.)
Might be abe to improve a few fights. Like the red daria in the actual cave with the hammer. Kill it sooner so I don't have to wait for the exp.
So, I guess I'll go over it again, and iron a few things out, but this is pretty much how things will look. If any of you guys have any ideas, I'd love to hear them.
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Rising Tempest wrote:
EDIT: In the future, try using one of the hosting sites in the TASvideos FAQ. Rapidshit is ass.
Normally I would just use my webspace, but that's tricky when your internet's acting up. I am, however, piggybacking off a neigbour at the moment. In the spirit of stolen internet: here's the WIP not on rapidshare.
Thanks for the pointers on Helmethead and the octorok. I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out. I did manage to improve the key grab in palace 1 as well...
Also, I know you were planning on getting back to this, but I figured you were busy with Goldeneye or some such, so I thought I'd give it a shot. I have no real desire to see my name on the front page, though, I just want an amazing run. I don't care who does it ;D
edit: I can't figure out a way to use the extra exp on the way to get the hammer that makes sense. My sword levels always fall behind the current run. Even if I can squeeze 1000 exp on the way to level my sword again, the current exp strategy makes more sense.
So off to figure out how to skip 6 darias.
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Bump, for great justice.
Someone set us up the Zelda 2 Improvement.
I am without the internet right now. It's surprising how much free time I have without it. Since I was so bored, I worked a bit on Zelda 2. The above link is from power on until the end of Palace 1, using Rising Tempest's route and level up strategy (so I wouldn't have to figure out a strategy cold).
Since I don't have the net at the moment, I couldn't download the current published run's fcm. I couldn't compare frame counts, so I can't be sure if I've done every room at least as fast as it, (especially before getting downstab) but I think I am about 5 seconds ahead at this point, based on the avi. I don't want to be basing a run off of an avi.
As the movie goes along, I get better at killing 'big' enemeis quickly. I'm at the point now where I can kill most enemies without losing any forward momentum using the downstab.
For all these reasons (and since I just downloaded Rising Tempest's .fcm to a floppy disk so I can make sure every room is at least as good as his) and since my Palace 2 boss is visibly slower, I'm stopping this test run here and starting a really real for real run. I'm just looking for a bit of feedback.
Also, I've managed to get 600 extra exp in on the way to the hammer, and if I could get the drops from the small enemies to cooperate, I could feasibly get another 200 or so. I'm hoping for some ideas on how to incorporate this exp in the strategy, or else I'm going to try to find ways to avoid about 6 of those axe... guys... I know I can pass through the red ones while they're flashing, at least, with good timing.
Okay, I shut up now. Any ideas/comments/places I messed up would be appreciated.
------------------
Edit: I've had a chance to crunch the numbers. I'm 420 frames ahead overall. 325 if you don't count the different (ie lack of) name.
The places that I've done a room slower than Rising Tempest are as follows:
Jump cave 1 and 2: I lost 3 frames on each of the goriyas. I know why this happened, and it was worrying me before I looked at the frame count. Should be a cinch to fix.
Cave maze 2: I lost 8 frames. How did you make the Octorok not appear at the end, Tempest?
Cave maze 5: I got the level-up Sword dialogue in this room, and Rising Tempest declined a magic level, so I'm not 100% sure. The numbers say I'm 157 frames behind, but I suspect it's more like 5 frames behind, ignoring the dialogues.
Hammer cave 2: I lost a mystery 10 frames. I guess my fight was bad?
Otherwise, I did just as well if not better in all of the other parts up to getting downstab and Fairy. Overall, I am ahead by 79 frames from when you can first control Link to this point.
Palace 2 is where things start to pick up. Besides one or two stalfos, I manage to keep my momentum with downstab.
I do lose 3 frames in the glove room, because I have to wait so I don't get hit by falling bricks in the next room.
I lose one mystery frame in the room before the boss fight.
My biggest loss is the palace 2 boss, where Rising Tempest gets him 20 frames ahead of me. I also lose 5 frames after getting the key, so I must not be getting it as far forward as possible.
All in all, I gain 205 frames on Palace 2, and in Palace 1 I only gain frames, even on the boss.
Therefore: My run can be 56 frames faster, based on just the numbers. I suspect I can kill a few Stalfos in Palace 2 a little better. And who knows what other minor optimizations I might come across.
So, the prospect of starting over is a bit of a bummer, now that I see there's only a few small blips compared to the published run. But it will amount to about a second. And since I know it's there, I don't really have a choice, I think. I'll start when I figure out what I'm doing about the extra exp.
I shut up now.
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I don't think asking everyone else to make ISOs for you is the best way to get them. The internet is filled with how-to's on the subject. Might I suggest being proactive?
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beltran63 wrote:
I do not think that 9000 is the max bonus. I have gotten a bonus of 10000 and 12000 but the over all score was 21000. To get this just dont repeat any moves.
I don't know what moves I'm missing. Could you let me know how to do them? If they're worth more than the moves I'm already using on the right wall, then I might have to replan my run.
The only move I saw in the manual that isn't in this run is a rock&roll, which I think is a board stall, which is the same as the board slide, as far as your bonus goes.
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samurai goroh wrote:
In the 1st event, do you get the best bonus?
Yes. 9000 is the maximum bonus.
Inzult wrote:
1) I don't even remember if I tested pressing up, left on the 'enter your name' screen. I suppose I should look into that one. Not really a huge deal, but I'll probably overlook it if I don't write it down :)
Wrong, idiot. You can't go up and left on the 'enter your name' screen. I guess I did test it. Yes. That's my story. But in stead of entering 2 letters for my name, I only entered one. (“I” for Inzult ^____^).
Inzult wrote:
2) I'm not happy with a couple of the moves on the ramp (especially the rail slide), and think I could boost my score a little by retesting how many frames I can stay on the lip.
This ended up being a waste of time. If I start my slide sooner, I get fewer points. Oddly, if I stay on the lip for as many frames as possible, I still get fewer points. The most points is gotten for keeping the board flat the whole way across for the minimum number of frames.
Inzult wrote:
3)I also want to try to get even more points out of the rotations in the ramp event.
I tested about 50 individual frames to see what number of points I'd get for tapping A on. Then I looked at my notes and noticed a pattern. there are ~12 frames where the grab's animation is too long, and is useless, ~9 where the grab gives you 150, then 3 where you get 300, then it repeats. So to look for a better score, I went on to find the 1st frame where the animation was too long, went back 3 frames, and tried combinations of various 300 point grabs during the rotation to see if I could find a combo of 2 that would allow for enough extra time to put in a third grab (of either 150 or 300 points).
Sadly, all the grabs seem to take too long. The best I could find was the original combo I had in the WIP... if any of that makes sense :P
Rotating by pressing left in stead of right gives a different starting point for the scores you can get from grabs. I couldn't do as well rotating left, though.
So, the score is the same.
Inzult wrote:
4) If I enable two controllers, I can probably get way higher on the high jump, since both imputs affect play.
Wrongo once again. When I first did the high jump, I just did it the way I do when normally playing the game, except frame perfect. One direction per frame, and B every other frame.
The first thing I tested was only pressing left and right every other frame, and B every other frame, because I read that's how you're supposed to do it. Same score.
Then, out of curiosity, I tried only pressing up and down every other frame, and B every other frame. Same score.
Then I tried with 2 controllers. Between the 2 controllers, B was on every frame, and there were two directions on the D pad pressed every frame. Same score.
Just to make sure, I tried pressing only B every other frame on one controller, and B every other frame on both controllers. I got about 9 feet with one controller and about 10 feet with 2.
I therefore assumed that there's some sort of ceiling to the ramp. No matter what I do, my skater will never pass that ceiling. I even tried less input, and got the same score. Looks like 13'9 is the best I'm going to get.
So! Next is the Downhill. I'll post the new WIP (which looks a lot like the last WIP so far) when I'm done that. Also, I want to make a rough Lester-free Jam run and a rough High-score Jam run to post so we can all see what they both look like.
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samurai goroh wrote:
In the 1st event, do you get the best bonus? I think you do, but I kind of remember there where more moves to perform, maybe not...
I think so. I can only think of the 6 unique moves. I'm looking at the manual here, and there's a move called the "rock n roll", but I think it counts the same as a rail slide. I'll do a quick test to see if doing that, or doing a blank wall, or an ollie with a grab will count towards the bonus.
the faqs on gamefaqs are woefully inaccurate.
My intuition tells me no, but it's an easy thing to test.
samurai goroh wrote:
if you were going for score, why didn't you jumped after the lake through the rocks to get to the finish line instead of just heading towards it?
Good idea. It shouldn't take too much extra time to get over there. I'll check how many points a time unit gives you and how many points clearing gravel gives you, and try to work it in wherever I can.
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kooz wrote:
I enjoyed the movie so far. I'd definitely say you should go for speed on the downhill jam. This game is a lot slower than I remembered it being :)
I can think of good reasons to do the jam either way, but I'm leaning towards a lester-free run. I'm currently in the process of testing the bejesus out of the ramp. If I had more free time, this would be so done so quick. It's such a short game.
And I've noticed it looks a lot slower when you aren't playing it.
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Hey hey. I've been playing around with this game, testing stuff out and whatnot, trying to maximize scores. Here's what I have so far. (I hope that's the right movie file. I'm disorganized.)
So. I'm looking for coments, basically, about style. Any help regarding stuff I missed would be lovely too. I will be restarting, for several reasons, because the more I watch, the more I want to retest, like, everything.
1) I don't even remember if I tested pressing up, left on the 'enter your name' screen. I suppose I should look into that one. Not really a huge deal, but I'll probably overlook it if I don't write it down :)
2) I'm not happy with a couple of the moves on the ramp (especially the rail slide), and think I could boost my score a little by retesting how many frames I can stay on the lip.
3)I also want to try to get even more points out of the rotations in the ramp event, and if I can get even more points out of the rotations, I need to find out if doing the variety of moves (preferable) gives you a higher score than all rotations (boring).
4) If I enable two controllers, I can probably get way higher on the high jump, since both imputs affect play.
5) On that note, test if two controllers allows for faster turns on downhill.
6)I think I can do the Downhill faster. I want to retest to find the fastest start.
Now for the big question: How should I handle the Downhill Jam? My goal so far has been priority on maximizing the score while also being as fast as possible. This isn't a problem for most events, but the Jam is a different story. To maximize score, I would have to knock over Lester as much as possible. Thus I would be in the event for a long time. That would, in my opinion, make for a bad looking run. Otherwise, I'm just trying to maximize time and cans/bottles broken, knowing full well that a better score is possible.
Since I'm not sure what to do here, that's where the movie ends. Any comments would be appreciated... also, is anyone interested in seeing this done? :P
I swear I looked for it before I made any sarcastic remarks :(
I was going to follow this up with serious suggestions, but you have some pretty odd ones on there.
Orb 3D (NES) is pretty strange, I think.
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I think that pretty well every video game is weird. I mean, there's a game where an Italian plumber somehow winds up in a magical mushroom land and fights a giant turtle so he can change some anthropomorphic mushroom people back from stone to 'normal'. By the way, they have floating bricks there and if you pick up a flower, you can throw fire. Speaking of fire, balls of fire literally jump out of pits of lava, and there are long beams of fire that rotate around some of those floating bricks I mentioned before.
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AnS wrote:
Inzult wrote:
But after Contra finishes, you can start again. Would it be worth the trouble to focus on Contra, and run it twice, while still passing Super C once, and try to finish at the same time? :O
I don't think so. Are there some advantages of running Contra twice??
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Since the movie will only end as quickly as Super C is done, I think sacrificing time in Contra just to progress better in Super C makes sense.
But after Contra finishes, you can start again. Would it be worth the trouble to focus on Contra, and run it twice, while still passing Super C once, and try to finish at the same time? :O
