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In any tiered system, some tier will be the bottom one. Fair or not, the bottom tier will have some negative connotations to it for some people. If this is the problem, then changing the name and giving it a happier logo won't change anything. I can see use in sorting movies by entertainment, however, and of course there will be borderline cases.
That said, if I'm looking for a tas to watch, I click on the "all" option and scroll until I see a game that interests me. I don't pay particular attention to what tier a movie is in. I don't know if this is typical viewer behavior, but it's probably not unique.
So I suppose the option presented I find most agreeable is just to leave the system as-is. Either that or remove the vault but keep the idea it represents-- publish a tas for any game regardless of entertainment value, so long as the quality of the run itself is high.
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I'll just go ahead and remove my avatar. As much as I love downstab, it can never bring me what I truly want. Which is not to have to worry about my avatar in future.
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dwango, i'll be attending again this year, and though i don't particularly have anything to say about family feud or pokemon, i'd be happy to help with setup/teardown, toting cables, or whatever other onsite help you might need.
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hegyak wrote:
Why did you have to backtrack to Death Mountain for the Magic Jar? Since you already have the hammer, you could have gotten the jar as well.
The second trip to death mountain isn't to get the jar, it's to warp to east Hyrule. The jar just conveniently is right there, ready to be picked up.
Many moons ago I tested getting the raft from P3 in stead to save a second trip to death mountain. But at that time it seemed that the raft just took too long to get.
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Sorry, what's exactly being suggested here, that speedruns be labeled as speedruns? If so, that seems a bit redundant since not-speedruns are already labeled as not-speedruns.
Or is it being suggested that for games with multiple runs, we pick the category we like the best and flag it as the record?
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feos wrote:
"warp glitch" maybe?
This is fine too.
Really, my main concern originally was that by getting more specific with the naming, we shouldn't conflate breaking the way Link moves within a room with breaking the way rooms connect any more. Especially considering the two things have nothing to do with one another. I just couldn't come up with a good suggestion for a name to encompass the various ways connections are broken.
In the past I was less concerned because "glitched" could mean anything, and how it was sold on the site didn't bother me.
(The descriptions still present l+r as the main thing, which is probably fine since moving at ~5x normal speed is the first thing that jumps out at you)
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I can only really speak to Zelda 2, the only game on that list I'm familiar enough with to understand what exactly is going on.
The way it is now, with the short run being unnamed and the long run being tagged as something that doesn't use every technique known is fine and makes a lot of sense in this case, I think.
I personally preferred "glitched" and unnamed because it was vague enough that we could use common sense to decide what to include in which run without having to explicitly define everything. Viewers can look at these two runs and see that, yeah okay, even though both of these use an any% route, one's obviously not as close to what zelda 2 usually looks like as the other.
If you want vague names for both and rely on the movie description to explain what's happening "glitched" and "no oob" or something along those lines is fine.
If you want more specific names, "uses l+r acceleration, wrong warps" and "no l+r acceleration or wrong warps" is good. I've come to prefer wrong warps to unintended exits, even though neither name perfectly describes what's going on I think WW is a more familiar kind of name for people.
"No l+r, no healer glitch, no fairy glitch, no scroll lock" is technically exactly what's intentionally left out of the longer run, but that's getting a bit wordy.
Additionally, unnamed and "avoids game-breaking glitches" with the movie description explaining what those are is sufficient as well.
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Pokota wrote:
Is it faster to use a key or to pass through as a fairy?
Derakon wrote:
I suspect that the actual act of moving through the door as a fairy (plus pausing to re-activate the spell) is faster than stabbing an en-route key and then unlocking the door
This is correct. But it is surprisingly close. If the key can be gotten with 0 delay, it is only a matter of frames. And it's also true that the planning isn't always a simple comparison. For example, if a door must be passed twice, it is faster to unlock, but only if there's a convenient key.
I can't promise the route is perfect, but a lot of time was spent considering these seemingly minor things.
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I'm not a gambling man, but I would guess the developers didn't intend for you to get on the ceiling there, this is true. However the exit is functioning as intended-- your y position when you use a screen transition on the side of the room isn't considered.
Would it be better if I just called what this run avoids doing to exits "wrong warps" in stead? There seems to be some resistance wrt the word "intended". Like, I don't care what it's called. It could be any% no pizza pockets.
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I will concede that fairying through doors was probably unintentional but I won't call it a glitch. Just a weird thing that happens from every mechanic working as intended in unison.
Derakon wrote:
I do have to wonder if walking on the top of the wall, especially in the Great Palace, counts as using an "unintended exit". It's certainly not how the Great Palace was intended to be solved!
I thought somebody might! I am still using the intended exit (side of the room) just on the ceiling in stead of on the floor.
For the sake of absolute clarity, a run that uses unintended exits would look like something like this. This completes the game in 18 minutes.
So, if I casted fairy while I was up there and skipped the thunderbird fight, that would be an unintended exit.
"unintended exit" is a really bad name for this kind of glitch but names are really hard to think up.
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Tristal wrote:
One minor correction to the submission notes, you have sword 3 against helmethead, not sword 2.
Ah, that's correct. In fact, I gain 77 frames on helmethead from having sword 3. This is the only boss where substantial time is saved.
This is why you need to keep good notes.
edit: I added a temp encode to the submission. I probably should have done that to begin with, so that people could actually watch the thing.
Link to video
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If you just want to call it any% glitchless and call it a day, that's fine. I wouldn't argue that the run has absolutely no glitches in it, but it's a serviceable name in terms of describing what the movie is.
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true, i know dwango got my old run to sync on my cart, and the one i had on hand is a late release. as far as i know, there are no rom revisions on this game, even though there were plenty of production runs.
is it possible that your console has lag in a spot where another console might not? is that even a thing?
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IIRC they're different in text but there's also more subtle things, like the J version allows you to charge your wand faster and stuff like that. It's not quite a 1:1 comparison.
If you do due process and show exactly what improvements are from the version change and what are from better play, there shouldn't be a problem when it comes to submission.
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Derakon wrote:
Why don't you use the same path to get the Hammer as you do to teleport to Maze Island? They both take you to the end of Mount Doom, and it seems like the former path is faster than the latter one.
The path through the front door of death mountain requires the full 6-door scroll lock healer glitch, and warping to bagu's hut from Mido to set up. All things being equal going through the front door for both trips would probably(?) be faster, but with the extra setup, taking the hammer this way is overall better.
It takes ~56s from the start of Rauru town through to the up&a restart at the hammer.
It takes ~60s from the start of Rauru town through to the start of the main hammer cave using scroll lock.
Also, yes vote.
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Here is an alternate route which appears to be faster. It arrives at Dark Link's room 193 frames faster than the tweaked movie posted earlier. It is a very rough run and could probably be tightened by a good number of frames and made to look better as well:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/13206244710548155
I didn't think it was a good route, so I didn't bring it up before. However some new ideas worked out nicely, and I now think this route is better than the old one, even if the encounter near palace 2 could be avoided.
This basically means starting over, I think, but you might be able to reuse some sections. I do like the glitchier movement in your run. I used it pretty sparingly in the old one so it would be easier to watch, but at this point I think making it look as crazy as possible is for the best.
