TASVideos

Posted: 3/9/2014 4:12 AM

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Inzult

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I know of one more place to save time. It's probably easier for me to just make an adjustment than to attempt to explain it. So here. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/13193944508739415 89 frames saved with this trick using the wrong exit on maze island. I'm not aware of other places where this would work, but there's probably others. Of course, this desynced the Dark Link fight. But to make a TAS sometimes you have to eat a few omelettes. Or something. edit: I have once gotten from P2 to Saria with 0 encounters. The input file was lost, however, and it wasn't done from a "good" starting point it was just in testing, so all of the initial RNG was possibly something it wouldn't normally be at that point. It is possible that there could be a good overworld manipulation there, but I was never able to find one for my movie either :(

Posted: 3/3/2014 11:51 PM

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Inzult

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Oh hey, somebody finally made this. And I like how it turned out. The full run looks nice and fast. Yes vote

Posted: 2/23/2014 2:10 AM

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Inzult

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Yes vote. That is all.

Posted: 2/14/2014 11:55 PM

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Inzult

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taseditor, the overworld is indeed a harsh mistress :( I've been messing with the movie and the fastest I can get there so far with the seed you've got (by taking only one step on the path near p2 in stead of 2) is 9 frames behind the published movie, you said you were 9 frames ahead of that so that is 18 frames lost :( Curiously, waiting inside of glitch town for any number of frames between 0 and 9, or the full 18 frames does not seem to result in the same initial overworld spawns I got in the published movie. In fact, the time encounters barely changed at all. I was not aware of other ways to manipulate the spawns besides time, so it seemed to me the results would be the same as what I saw in the published movie. But there apparently is something I have missed after all this time. For the published movie, I redid the downstab basement to be 1 frame slower than my fastest result and the overworld changed significantly. So I waited for 1 frame in the town screen with the downstab door, and this is the result: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/12701473793563120 As you can see, I was still not successful in getting around the spawns efficiently, but more importantly, the behavior of the time-based enemy spawns is drastically changed, and so is the random steps the spawns take. I was experiencing only subtle changes by waiting on the last screen in town. I don't want to suggest trial and error, because that's pretty lame. But try some different stuff deeper into Mido town to see if you can get a friendly seed?

Posted: 2/6/2014 9:33 AM

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Inzult

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Okay, here's the new any% no unintentional exit WIP, getting ready to go to palace 3. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/12510086418736967 If anyone wants to mess around with any of the run and try to tighten it a bit, you're more than welcome to it. The overall route (probably) isn't going to get tweaked any more and the game is actually somewhat hex friendly. Good places to look for improvements are any side scrolling room where I don't simply hold the direction I want to go and kill enemies with sneaky momentum conserving tricks on my way out, and, of course, any overworld section.

Posted: 1/28/2014 12:53 AM

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Inzult

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Yeah the swamp is the worst part of the whole run to actually do, hands down. So, iirc, the encounter spawns do 4 "random" steps and then 12 steps based on where they are on screen, depending on where you are in the global timer. The priority goes like this: 1) If they are one step above or below you, no matter how far away to the left or right they are, when it's their turn to take a step, they will step towards you in the x plane. 2) Or if they are one step left or right of you, no matter how far away above or below you they are, when it's their turn to take a step, they will step towards you in the y plane. 3) Else if they are more than one step away in both directions, they will take a random step. Fairies always take random steps. A consequence of this is if you can herd all spawns one step above or below you, you will be able to take many steps left or right, and they will never move toward you (until random time) Of course, every spawn starts in line with Link, and Link walks at half speed on the swamp, so you have to lean on random steps to a certain degree, which is based on your position and what frame it is. To get a different result on what spawns based on the timer you'll need to wait frame(s) on a path or inside the previous town room. My method was always to just sort of try stuff until something worked, then try to find ways to shave time off that.

Posted: 1/18/2014 8:04 PM

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Inzult

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Rising Tempest wrote:

So I guess it's really just a matter of sorting out the optimal way to be 3-5-1 after the first three palaces?

Exactly, yeah, the leveling in the first half is surprisingly complex. I'm not sure I'll get it right, but what I have on paper is already way better than the published tas, so that's something. The sort of problem is that being able to ignore the crystal hp/mp refills makes sword levels more useful the earlier you get them again. But the first level where we could use a crystal to exp dump sword levels into magic levels is, annoyingly, the same level you need the magic levels for.

Posted: 1/18/2014 4:01 AM

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Inzult

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I think so, yes.

Posted: 1/17/2014 11:38 PM

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Inzult

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This is a minor thing, but in the unglitched tas of zelda 2, we refrain from using l+r to "zip" (I guess) but also we refrain from using unintended exits to rooms via fairy/healer/scroll lock glicthes. A run that abused these glitches but also didn't use l+r would likely still be around 18 minutes. So labeling it as just "no zipping" isn't quite complete. I'm not sure what a good, concise label would be but I'd be happier with something along the lines of "no OOB". Even though the zipping is more visually striking, the heavy lifting is done by breaking room exits in various ways.

Posted: 1/13/2014 7:46 AM

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Inzult

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Hi Jack :) Taking a level costs ~3 seconds, cancelling ~0.5 seconds. Pbag drops also cost ~0.5s, and to generalize, you can usually deal around 5 hits to a boss without getting ejected or knocking the boss back every 20ish frames. But also, you can only deal 6 or so hits to enemies without slowing down and a lot of the enemies start taking 8 at attack 3 inside palace 3. So to get to magic 5 in time for palace 4, there will be some rooms in p3 where we need to slow down a little at attack 3 and a lot at attack 2. So I think doing p1 first is the way to go here, even with the 1 extra level cancel. I think I can save at least 30 frames in p3 with attack 3 vs attack 2 to cover that, and I think helmethead and rebonak at attack 3 will be better than them at attack 2 and a fast horsehead. Obviously there are a lot of little things that complicate the route but overall I think it's a good cake and eat it too sort of leveling plan. You're right though in your points about gooma and beyond. I will retest getting the flute first vs doing gooma first when I get there though to make sure the route makes sense. I don't even really remember why doing gooma first was faster in the old movie. Either way, though, the crystal exp is going to happen. Either we up&a at the flute or we don't up&a at all, so you can count that exp in the route. Sword 4 after carock seems like a no-brainer to me, but further sword upgrades after gooma I'm not so sure. I'll math that out later on. In my mind at that point it's either take sword levels or don't, so it's not as critical to the overall route. Maybe if I can manipulate a lot of magos I can get attack 5 in time for gooma, and that makes sense to try. Taking magic 6 makes sense maybe if it can replace a death or a red jar drop in the GP like you mentioned needed to be done, but the basic plan I had for that is to just either manipulate the jar right before the crumbling bridge room, or take a lava swim, whichever's faster. Anyway, a tentative plan is to end up with 5-5-1 or so, just sort of depending on a few things around palace 5 and beyond. I'm pretty happy with the plan through palace 4 that I have now though so I'm going to go ahead with that.

Posted: 1/7/2014 12:39 AM

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Inzult

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I can't think of anything big off the top of my head. I'm just trying to remember the route, and it might be possible to get the healer lady to spawn sooner than what I do in the published run, and it might be possible to get the downstab teacher guy to spawn a bit sooner too, but only a matter of frames in both cases. You've probably already explored this :) If you've watched the video I posted a while back to get to 2 different locations using the same exit, you might want to see if something like that can apply on the last screen of glitch town or somewhere in fairy town though. I'm away this week, I'll be able to take a look at things after I get home at the end of the week, just post whatever you've got on like Sunday or something.

Posted: 1/3/2014 11:57 PM

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Inzult

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Mm, thankfully subpixels are reset for every new room you go to, so you don't have to focus on them beyond how they affect the room you're in. IIRC each unit of speed makes you go 0.0625 pixels per frame? So when you break the usual cap you max out at exactly 8 pixels per frame? That sounds about right. It's been a long time since I was thinking about l+r speeds :p

Posted: 1/2/2014 11:58 PM

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Inzult

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I was confused at first. Then the movie started. I'm sure there's lots of frames to come off the glitched TAS, and I encourage you to do it :) I've posted a few known improvements over the past few pages, I'm sure you've seen them but feel free to use them if you intend to do a full improvement :) By my count, you're 4 frames ahead. You gained 7 on the first overworld, lost 1 in the trophy cave, then lost 2 on the second overworld. The mystery frame you "lost" in the very beginning is from your movie starting from power on, in stead of mine, which was from reset--my bad on the old version :v The second overworld loss may be unavoidable, the enemy spawns are a harsh mistress. I'm uncertain what happened inside of trophy cave. Just a cursory glance says that you took too long to get your speed to -128 in there but I don't have time to go too deep.

Posted: 12/27/2013 11:55 PM

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Inzult

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scaryice wrote:

I did it. Warped to the credits from chapter 3. This file won't explain anything, but here it is: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/833514704/end.fm2

Credits from chapter 3? Sounds like it would make a good tas :)

Posted: 12/16/2013 10:46 PM

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Inzult

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How do I miss these things.

Posted: 12/16/2013 12:29 PM

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Inzult

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Actually, I measured that! Skipping the crystal in p2 is around about 10s faster than the published movie, would take longer for higher exp crystals. Taking a death is around about 6, assuming you can die very quickly upon entering a screen, so one crystal could possibly replace 2 deaths. Taking deaths at all that don't also put you farther forward in the route probably won't be necessary though, there is enough xp to get to magic 5 in time. Making concessions on sword levels is annoying though. That also costs time. Just-- less time. You're right about palace 1, though. I'm not thinking about it right. I don't need a red jar to drop there to refill magic, the magic level up takes care of that. However, because the xp doesn't work out nicely (I wind up with too much in p1 and p2), taking magic 3 in palace 1 and sword 3 in p2 creates an extra level up screen for me to cancel overall. It also requires slowing down for 2 extra 200 pbags. This is ~1.5 seconds lost. I'm not sure at the moment if this time would be covered on helmethead and inside p3 from better fights, or if delaying p1 for a sword 4 horsehead fight basically cancels all of that out and I'd just be giving up 1.5 seconds for no real advantage. At this point, I might just need to make 2 movies to figure it out. It's a bit too complex for my brain to work out.

Posted: 12/15/2013 5:19 PM

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Inzult

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Inzult wrote:

Inzult wrote:
Otherwise I could: -pick up 300 xp in palace 1 (2-3-1) -pick up 1200 xp in p2 (3-4-1) (this might be too much) -pick up 1200 xp in palace 3 (end at 3-5-1) (this might be too much) -do p4 (end at 4-5-1 still)

This doesn't work. I can't get 300xp in 1 and fairy through 2 doors at magic 2. At least I realized before I went and redid everything this time.

Posted: 12/14/2013 7:14 PM

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Inzult

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Inzult wrote:

Otherwise I could: -pick up 300 xp in palace 1 (2-3-1) -pick up 1200 xp in p2 (3-4-1) (this might be too much) -pick up 1200 xp in palace 3 (end at 3-5-1) (this might be too much) -do p4 (end at 4-5-1 still)

I can't get the xp for this just right. There is indeed 1200 xp available in palace 2, but I can only get the numbers to 1250, which means canceling an unneeded life level. Here's the stuff available on the route, we need between (around) 1170 at least (I can pick up 30 xp from small stuff if needed) and don't want to get to 1250: B STALFOS 70 O IK 50 O IK 50 B STALFOS 70 R IK 100 O IK 50 O IK 50 B STALFOS 70 B STALFOS 70 B STALFOS 70 HAMMER BRO 50 R IK 100 B STALFOS 70 HELMETHEAD 200 Delaying p1 and doing it at attack 4 though means I'll have to cancel an extra life level anyway, since horsehead is a forced 50 xp. I think no matter what it's probably worth pushing for early attack 3 here. 2 vs 3 isn't a big dealbreaker for helmethead or rebo, but there are a lot of enemies that take 8 hits at attack 3 in palace 3, which is just barely too much to kill them without slowing down at all. At attack 2, they take 11 hits which means I'd basically need to stop for every enemy. I'd just like to avoid the extra menu popup as well. ok that is a lot of words, sorry

Posted: 12/13/2013 2:43 AM

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Inzult

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Alright, this route isn't working out. I'd like to hear some ideas so I can refine it. Goals: -skip the bonus experience from crystals -maximize sword levels where possible -leave the leveling the same through death mountain as in the WIP above (2-2-1) -walk into palace 4 with level 5 magic -palace 1 can go anywhere in the route after an up&a So far my best idea is: -pick up 1000 xp in palace 2 (end at 2-4-1) -pick up 1200 xp in palace 3 (end at 2-5-1) (this might be too much) -do p4 (end at 4-5-1) -do p1 (skip everything since there isn't enough xp here) But that would necessitate slowing down a bit to get kills, since even sword 3 isn't quite strong enough to deliver enough hits to kill some enemies (doomknockers, blue stalfos) while walking past enemies at full speed. Otherwise I could: -pick up 300 xp in palace 1 (2-3-1) -pick up 1200 xp in p2 (3-4-1) (this might be too much) -pick up 1200 xp in palace 3 (end at 3-5-1) (this might be too much) -do p4 (end at 4-5-1 still) Or maybe there's something else that I'm not thinking of. At this point, whatever I think of doesn't quite work anyway, so I'm happy to listen to whatever.

Posted: 12/9/2013 3:08 PM

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Inzult

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Speaking of Zelda 2, here's the wip of the new any% tas, up though palace 2. I'm about 88 seconds ahead so far. Enjoy! http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11205629225839964

Posted: 12/7/2013 9:00 PM

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Inzult

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jlun2 wrote:

Inzult wrote:
I'd watch it. In fact, I think an FDS run has a lot to offer compared with a US release run. They changed a lot.
Mind elaborating on some of the differences?

-Many enemies give different amounts of experience -You gain levels at different levels of EXP and can choose any of the 3 stats to level up -The game only "remembers" your lowest individual stat, so when you game over or use up&a to save and quit/continue, your sword, magic and life levels are set to whatever was your lowest -Some enemies being vulnerable only to fire was added for the US release -Some layouts and enemy placements differ, probably most notably in palace 5 -The fairy fall and scroll lock glitches do not work on the FDS version -Carock behaves differently, but it's fairly minor -There is no Gooma at the end of 5, in stead it is a souped up Helmethead; Horsehead also appears as a midboss -Barba is different, but it probably won't show in a tas, since he dies so fast -Elevators move slower and load times take longer :( -The J version makes use of the FM Synth channel

Posted: 12/6/2013 11:21 PM

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Inzult

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I'd watch it. In fact, I think an FDS run has a lot to offer compared with a US release run. They changed a lot.

Posted: 11/14/2013 7:44 AM

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Inzult

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If you guys start arguing whether or not everything is an argument I will have to write a bunch of awful hyperbole. Don't make me do it!

Posted: 11/12/2013 11:45 PM

Post subject: Re: Twitch.Tv User Info

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Inzult

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yeah okay Twitch Username:inzult2 (the 2 is silent) Link to stream page: http://www.twitch.tv/inzult2 Do you stream Speedruns?:Zelda 2 - TAS work?:Zelda 2 - Races from SpeedRunsLive?:No. What else do you stream?:Various crummy NES games Do you stream on a schedule?:No.

Posted: 11/7/2013 8:06 AM

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Inzult

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In that case, why die at all? If 0 hp is the goal and not the death, why not, say, pause the game once that threshold is reached? Or, perhaps, pause then hit select to go back to the title screen in stead?

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