Posts for JXQ


JXQ
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Wow, where did that come from? Your run looks very well played. Things I noticed that may be improvable (not sure, I don't know the game too well) 1) Killing Bowser with Firepower may be quicker than hitting the axe to break the bridge. 2) Some places where you jumped onto a high block (8-3 for example), you lost momentum by running into the block before getting on top of it. This may be avoidable by getting an earlier running start to jump earlier, which may be faster (I didn't test anything though). 3) In one of the levels, you delayed hitting the flagpole for a second. Are there fireworks or something similar in this game? 4) There is a different way to accelerate in the NES/FDS versions of Mario, by jumping backwards. I don't know if it's possible and/or faster in this version or not. But those are minor observations - overall this looks very good. I hope you have the time to finish it!
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JXQ
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Question - when you ask one of the three questions, do you have to pick an individual responder as well, or do all three answer that same question?
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JXQ
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Xebra I understand that you have an ideal way stylistically for this run to be done, but I don't think you understand that I may have my own opinion about this, and that as far as style is concerned, it is up to the author. I was glad that you are giving me lots of ideas for futher optimization because you do have a very extensive knowledge of this game, and your WIPs have helped immensely...so I don't understand why you are taking offense. The reason my Green Hill levels were so similar to yours is because you optimized it so damn well. What could I have possibly done for those levels to not make you mad? If I had done exactly what you did stylistically, then why wouldn't I have just continued from your existing WIP? I'm sure you would think that is lame as well, as would I. I wanted to learn this game myself and I was doing so by studying your WIPs because they are very good. By the same token, if I think Marble 1 is optimized enough, then it is my right to move on. Of course, you can voice your opinion too (as you are), but I'm not going to be bullied into doing exactly what you want this run to be. I don't think your attitude is fair, and stuff like this makes me wonder if I would be better off doing the run without posting WIPs and updates.
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JXQ
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I thought that there was some game genie code that opened some kind of programming mode where up+B changed which Mario you were - I remember it being discussed somewhere on here. I don't know if that would be allowed, but it was a neat idea.
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JXQ
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I'm pretty sure I'll go for it after Sonic, especially with the improvements in the new FCEU. You can hold frame advance!!!Exclamation point
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Post subject: Boss Battles
JXQ
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I was just talking with my friend about this - what are some games that have a really good boss or final boss battle? Good characteristics (to me) include good music, a good attack variety to the boss, and good difficulty without being cheap. One boss I always liked was the Mantis from the first Turok game. I know there are cooler ones than this, but I'm drawing a blank right now.
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JXQ
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nitsuja wrote:
JXQ: I find it difficult to believe that you got so lucky the first time you ran it that even 1 more frame of improvement anywhere always causes a longer delay later, and even if that's the case, it should at least be possible to add in the right delays to get the same time you got before
The 1 frame of improvement may not cause a delay, but if it doesn't load the moving platforms earlier, it won't give any net improvement either.
I remember seeing Sonic hit the lava and lose some rings in this stage in one of Xebra's WIPs, but it didn't seem especially faster than what you're doing now so maybe I'm not thinking of the same thing.
There is a difference of a few frames - mine was slightly slower because I landed to the left of a block while Xebra had open space to the right, so the first few frames of his jump allowed for more horizontal acceleration.
maybe [the lava bounce] depends on how many rings you are holding and you simply don't have as many rings as Xebra had before.
I think you are right, except it looks like I had too many. I watched Xebra's v2 and he had 2-3 less rings than I did, and so I kept that in mind and was able to do the better lava bounce for the first time on the first try. Hopefully that problem stays solved. Busy today, but I have lots of time tomorrow so I will try to hammer out a new Marble 1.
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JXQ
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Xebra, to be clear - is this the ideal run for Marble 1? 1) Optimized beginning up to block push 2) Lava jump from your v1/v2 3) Moving platforms jumped on early as possible (earliest I've found so far is emerging from wall at 3:06.43) 4) Able to jump onto spiked chandelier immediately as in my first version If I am missing something, please correct me. This scenario shares some of the frustrating properties of Super Demo World. In that run, entering levels on different frames (starting states) can subtly change the amount of lag in a level. This means some levels were improvable from that standpoint, if it had been tested to enter and play through them with many different starting states. But...I'm only human. And as you were saying in a WIP you had worked on, you slowed down in a certain part which loaded pistons at a different spot. Perhaps some of the places that are not fully optimized in my first run helped me unknowingly set up timesavers in the later parts of the level. I'm not saying that means it should be kept, because it could still be improvable, but it may mean that your ideal run is not possible. I just don't know. I plan to test it more (as I tried some hexediting myself and was unsuccessful) before moving on, but whatever the fastest run I end up with after my patience is done is what I'm going to go with.
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JXQ
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I haven't done any hex-editing tests yet, so I'm not sure if it would be easy at this point. I don't have a problem redoing levels, however, if improvements are found in earlier parts of the game. To be clear, I'm all for putting effort into improving Marble Zone 1 as a whole, but only if it's actually going to improve the entire level. What I'm not all for is improving Marble Zone 1 up to that point just to match the time I already have, because it doesn't look sloppy to me (except for the lava jump, which I haven't been able to do once), and also because every improvement I've tried has actually caused a 2-second delay later in the level. I have tried getting to the platform in a lot of goofy ways with delays in different spots and the earliest I can get it to appear is 3.46.03, as was in my first version. Getting on the platform on the way in is at least 40 frames away from possible by the most recent improvement, and these 40 frames must be gained after the platforms are loaded, which at the earliest is just before the pistons. Even if the other lava jump was pulled off, there would still be over 30 frames to gain in a very small segment that is already quite optimized, and that does not seem possible to me. Nevertheless, I'm still willing to try improvements, because I am not the most knowledgable about this game, but at the same time, I won't stay on this level forever trying what seems impossible. I hope I don't seem lazy or like I'm rushing this; that's not my intention. And I also don't mean to seem ungrateful for the improvements, because learning the game more now can help me in later levels. I just want to spread out my energy on this project efficiently.
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JXQ
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Just because a level isn't entertaining doesn't mean it should be left out of a 100% run. You might as well extend that concept and do a non-warp run if you are going to make the auto-scrolling exception.
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JXQ
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It wasn't with every stat turned up to full, if that's what you are referring to. As the trick in EGM said:
Get all the Goldeneye 007 in-game cheats but don't turn them on then go to the Aztec level in 007 mode and set enemy health at 200% enemy damage at 100% enemy accuracy at 100% enemy reaction speed at 100% and complete the level in under 9:00.
Source. I did do this once, but it was years ago and I don't have proof. I think I got 8:53 or something near that.
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JXQ
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I redid the beginning and had some trouble figuring out exactly how to correct the part. It seems that Sonic slows down a bit from jumping, or bouncing, but not in every case. Xebra, do you know of a good way to determine this, or is it just something to test on each jump? I did improve the beginning a bit more messing around with different jumping strategies, but again, the platform in the wall was coming out later than in my original run. I'm going to leave this level for now - these improvements that end up not improving the overall level are frustrating me, and I think my energy is better spent on upcoming levels. When I come back to this level, I will try and figure out where the two spiked chandeliers and moving platforms are loaded, and figure out a "timing map" of sorts to play the level by.
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JXQ
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Thread topic wrote:
Super Mario Bros. 3 - All Levels
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Post subject: Re: that one rumor
JXQ
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Ersatz wrote:
also there was a rumor that if you beat the aztec with all the 00agent stats cranked up (DLTK) you could get all the old bond identities such as Sean Connery for multi player mode.
That rumor was from an April Fools joke in EGM. It said to complete the Aztec level with those stats at full (except for health was at 100% instead of the crazy 1000%) under 9 minutes. I actually was able to do it one day, and then is when I discovered it was a joke. I always hated April Fools Day.
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JXQ
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Neither (2) or (3) require entering extra doors, so they can be compared by differences in the frame counter when taking or not taking those missiles.
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JXQ
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The new WIP vs. your v2 is 28 frames faster to the block push. About the lava jump, it's not that I insist on using the bad one, but I haven't gotten the good one to work once on my run. Even if I did, and I got it a few frames faster than your v2, I don't see how I would save 5-6 seconds. Do you mean if I can get to the moving platforms early enough to jump on the first one as it is moving into the wall? That would definitely save some time if it still allowed jumping onto the top of the spiked chandelier. I will also test the deceleration you described while jumping down the shaft. (Edited for clarity) Unless the position of the platforms can be manipulated to our advantage, all the timesavers in the world aren't going to improve the time, they will just make for more waiting near the platforms. Any time gained before the platform is loaded into memory is only good if it doesn't mess up the position of the platforms, and to get this 5-6 seconds you are talking about (if I'm interpreting correctly), enough frames must be gained after the loading point of the platforms, wherever it is.
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JXQ
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I redid Marble Zone 1 with the new improvements, thanks to Nitsuja & Xebra. Unfortunately, the improvements end up hurting the time later on, as I can't jump to the spiked chandelier as I did in my first version. The techniques gained 16 frames in total, but it is irrelevant because of the timing of the moving platforms near the end. In this run, the platform on the right is visible on frame 3.06.46, three frames later than my first version. By messing around near the lava, I was able to make it appear on 3.06.45, but that's still slower than the first version. Honestly, I don't have the patience to try different pauses all over the level to see where the platform can be manipulated to the same time as my first version because then the frame count would just be the same as what I already have. I also tried doing the original lava bounce with this new timing for quite a while and was still unable to do so. However, I'm pretty sure that these ideas will have time-saving applications in later levels when there is less randomness to worry about. Anyone who's curious to watch or mess around with this can find Marble 1 partially redone here.
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JXQ
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If these are your four choices: (1) Missile to the right after first Missile (2) Missile below Crumble Blocks in Brinstar (3) Hidden Missile in the pipe of the large green room (4) Hidden Missile just after the first Power Bombs in Red-Brinstar (1) is definitely not the fastest because you have to wait for two doors to open and also travel a bit across the room. (2) requires that you head out of the room to the right to reset the falling gates (I believe). If not, it still requires backtracking rather than just falling down from the Super Missile. (3) requires a small amount of slowdown, you may even be able to mockball into the tube. (4) has the waiting time of a power bomb going off. I think (3) is the fastest.
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JXQ
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Nitsuja: I'm unable to reproduce what you are telling me. If I play the movie until the counter says 2:37:48, then stop movie, hold B and frame advance, Sonic doesn't jump, instead he lands on the first floating piece of land, and I have to jump from there. If I press jump on 2:37:47, then Sonic makes a really big jump that almost reaches the third floating piece of land, but pressing directions in the air doesn't extend this jump. I tried avoiding spinning, but I still can't make the jump, and any adjustments I've tried to make the jump gets me to the shield at 2:41:14 or later, which is a 10 frame delay. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
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JXQ
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Oh yeah, thanks, I forgot about that run. Famtasia you say? ..grumble..
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JXQ
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I liked in level 10 where you took a hit from the needle to pass through the next few. The only thing that looked suspect in level 11 is where you picked up energy after Woodman, but I'm guessing you tested it. That spike-death-but-not-really glitch is neat, I'm guessing that level 12 will allow for a lot of it, although it's a bummer because Sparkman's music is awesome.
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JXQ
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I did some more comparisons with that lava segment, and here's what I get: I am fifteen frames slower when falling down to the platform just before jumping with the lava, but I have a bit more velocity because of different jumping, I think. This causes me to gain back 11 of those 15 frames by the time we both hit the next wall. So, if the original lava bounce works, it should save at most four frames. I could be wrong on this, so if anyone else wants to compare, feel free. Four frames or not, the original way still looks cooler, so I dove into some Marble Zone 1 lava fun for a while, but still no success at this point. I got bored with that for now and did Marble Zone 2. The WIP is here. I'm not saying Marble Zone 1 will stay the way it is; I have no problem redoing levels, and I've gotten pretty good with a hex editor since Super Demo World, so redoing may not even be necessary as much as cut-and-paste.

Marble Zone 2          Xebra    -4.01    JXQ      Diff
-------------------------------------------------------
First jump             3.37.52  3.33.51  3.31.09  2.42
1st switch             3.42.49  3.38.48  3.35.56  2.52
Past lava              3.46.56  3.42.57  3.40.03  2.54
Done pushing           3.50.51  3.46.50  3.44.00  2.50
Push right             3.53.54  3.49.53  3.47.03  2.50
Edge before swings     3.57.23  3.53.22  3.50.33  2.49
On platform (all)      4.00.13  3.57.12  3.53.28  2.44
2nd switch             4.02.05  3.58.04  3.55.19  2.45
Break block            4.16.24  4.12.23  4.09.38  2.45
Land on lava block     4.21.54  4.17.53  4.15.00  2.53
Highest step           4.24.20  4.20.19  4.17.30  2.49
End                    4.31.58  4.27.57  4.24.54  3.03

I gain some frames in the beginning, but lose them in the area with the swinging platforms because they were positioned differently and I had to slow down a bit (which I did by jumping lower). I gained 21 frames in the last segment of the level. I'm not positive where, but I think that avoiding hitting the spiked-worm enemy near the end helped. I also tried waiting on the last spiked chandelier to jump directly to the top grass, which worked, but was slower. The area after the second switch has some real rapid-looking jumping. I did this because in some cases, holding the jump button longer keeps your speed just slightly faster, and that gained me a frame here or there. Finish time is still 0:53.
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JXQ
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Kyrsimys wrote:
Gah, I really don't feel like redoing the entire World 4 again for 16 frames, especially since I've already started on World 5.
Hey, I don't blame you. Sometimes runs never see the end because the author keeps correcting things and ends up getting sick of the entire thing :)
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JXQ
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I'm not sure why I didn't notice this before, but in the first level of world 4, you can jump farther at the end, hitting the Boom-Boom earlier, and saving 16 frames (maybe more if I didn't optimize it correctly). FCM here. Also, any reason why you took the switching-powers-to-the-music out of the coin level? I thought that part was fun to watch. This is looking good, as I've said numerous times, I love the power switching and the strategy it allows.
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JXQ
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Yeah I'm going to hold off a bit on Marble 2 because I hope that the lava path can be improved as well. I didn't get much time to work on it today but I'll try more tomorrow. I'm also going to see if the ending path I took is possible at the end of your v2 run. If it's not, then that may be another piece of randomness puzzle that needs to be considered. Edit: It's not possible from your v2 run, Sonic is one pixel (I think) short of the jump onto the spiked chandelier thing. On an earlier post you mentioned that you could get the moving objects to appear in a four-frame window or something like that; this is probably a similar effect of reaching different areas of the lava part at different times. Daniayaw: I don't understand the question...are you referring to the ROM, emulator, or something else? I'm using the ROM "Sonic The Hedgehog (JUE) [!].bin" and emulator Gens Test 9f.
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