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I think that with Warp's idea of what the rating should be, that "technical rating" is a misleading name. Though, I can't think of a very fitting one. Something like "How thorough was the author?" Bleh, that doesn't sound very good either.
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I think it's a very tough skill to be able to develop a widely liked learning curve to any game - it's probably much easier on the designer to just make things harder.
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moozooh wrote:
— How was this piece of dogshit?
— It tasted… like dogshit.
— But y'know, it was a special, ultra-rare expensive delicatessen piece of dogshit.
— Wow, that does it, I want more of this stuff!
Here's part of a positive review at Gamefaqs that seems to accompany another common reason that many like this game:
Fans of first-person shooters may look at these controls and die of a heart attack, but it should be noted that Prime is not meant to be a first-person shooter. In fact, “first-person adventure” seems to more accurately describe the game as a whole. In all, you’ll find that these controls are very effective and worthy of the game.Source
So I should change my mind on how bad the controls are because fans of the game put it in a new, make-believe genre? Please.
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Though I haven't so far and probably wouldn't enjoy playing this game at all, a TAS of it would probably be entertaining enough to hold my interest, if the game isn't too long, and there are enough original graphic ideas to keep things interesting visually.
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TixFrix, do you seriously repeat yourself this much in normal conversation?
1) Realism does not imply fun or not fun.
Source: previous post, first response to you.
2) MP2 and Jet Force Gemini is not Metroid Prime 1.
Source: previous post, point 2.
3) I have no reason to pretend I hate the game.
Source: previous post, last paragraph, plus sarcasm flag.
4) I didn't forget that "games are made to be fun". That's my main complaint.
Source: entire article, previous post, fifth paragraph (quote included).
5) Giving workarounds to existing problems (such as blinding steam vents) does not make the problems go away.
Source: previous post, fifth paragraph.
6) This article is not a misguided frustration due to my lack of Metroid Prime playing skill.
Source: previous post, point 4, plus sarcasm flag.
7) Pictures were there for comic relief. I did not actually complain about the CNN ticker being in the way of shooting enemies.
Source: previous post, second paragraph.
You dont seem to be able to read in english either since what I said about counting on 1 hand is about the number of realistic features in the game, iow they are no more than 5.
The irony of this quote is hilarious.
You can continue to repeat yourself, but I'm bored with it. Thanks for an entertaining morning. And remember, reading is fundamental!
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Ok... You are allowed to say that the game sucks cuz it has some realistic features, not that you can't count 'em on one hand, but when I say that the game acually is good cuz it has some realistic features at all, I'm a total retard that dont know what I'm talking about.. Fair enough?
I didn't say that realism makes this game suck. I said putting in realism at the expense of gameplay is a bad decision. In this case, the decisions made this game worse. Note the following quote:
JXQ wrote:
Good job again with continuing to place assumptions on a correlation between realism/unrealism and fun/not fun games.
If you don't know what correlation means, it means that the two things in question are somehow dependent on one another. A realistic game can be fun or not, and an unrealistic game can be fun or not. Saying a state of one implies the state of another is assuming a correlation between the two. You continue to do this, and I don't think you even notice.
To add, you are the one that sez that games that are realistic isn't fun to play cuz if you want realistic things you'll walk out your front door.
I never said this. Perhaps you should read the article, even though you don't claim you need to.
As I said, many others are dragging in Super Metroid much more than I am. The games are the same series, so it makes more sense to compare them. However, your type of comparison is summarized as: "You think Metroid Prime sucks, but that means this game does too!!" If you are trying to invalidate my opinion on Metroid Prime, you are completely missing the mark. Even if your statement is right, it doesn't change a thing about Metroid Prime, it just means another game sucks too.
I dont like the game "Sonic Heroes", and guess w00t?!?, I put the game back into it's folder and put it back on the shelf to wait some time and see if I might like it another time. Have I written a full webpage about it? No? Wonder why... I dont wanna expose myself as the retard I would be if I did.
Great. That's neat of you to assume everyone operates in the same fashion you do, and those who don't are "retards". Very mature and open-minded.
And yeah.. What about the acually good parts of the game? Not worth mentioning cuz that way it would seem like you acually enjoyed playing the game?
This amuses me. You are so blind with how much you like the game, that you assume I too loved it, and are hiding that fact, for some reason. See, since the title is "Metroid Prime Sucks Balls", I don't feel the need to spend a lot of space praising the game (WHICH, AS YOU SEZ, I COULDNT COUNT ON 1 HAND LOLZ). However, near the end of the article, I mention the one thing I like about the game - that it's fun to watch someone else play, because you get to see all the nice graphical effects without having to deal with the limitations they place on the gameplay. I guess you didn't notice that part since
I dont have to spend time reading your article
You are an amazing individual. Please don't waste my time more by repeating things you think make sense, but don't since you haven't actually read what you're commenting on. Here's a link to the article, for your convenience:
http://jxq.skuzz.com/MPSucks/
Cheers
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1) Thanks for "fast reading" the article, and then commenting on it like you know what I'm talking about.
2) Good job comparing Metroid Prime to even more games that have nothing to do with my article.
3) Good job again with continuing to place assumptions on a correlation between realism/unrealism and fun/not fun games.
4) You've found me out. I suck so bad at Metroid Prime that I had to write a web page about how much the game sucks to disguise my lack of skill.
but when someone makes a game and you dont like som parts of it, dont whine about the game being crap
5) Fair enough, but I ask that when you play a game you like, don't talk about how much you like it either. Sound good?
6) Regarding widescreen: Interesting proposal, offering a workaround for one of the flaws in a game, rather than acknowledging the flaw itself.
(All these points were mentioned in previous posts. Perhaps you should improve your "fast-reading")
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Wow.
Response to paragraph 1: You're saying that the things Samus does in MP are realistic. Is this just to say them, or are you trying to use them as an argument that MP is a better game because of it? If the second case, please see the article and/or several previous posts.
Response to paragraph 2: I don't care about speedruns, I'm talking about actually playing the game. I don't want a cramped, cluttered view, but it's good to have essential information on screen somewhere - like, I dunno, above the screen perhaps?
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MissileWaster:
This whole article is an opinion. Any article talking about a game is an opinion, good or bad. I thought this was fairly obvious. I also didn't mention that I wasn't insulting fans because I wasn't saying things like "If you like this game, you are an idiot". I figured the absence of insults towards players was enough to indicate that I wasn't insulting them.
Rooms are similar looking to me. When a path forks (I'm thinking of Magmoor at the moment), unless I check my map two-three times in the room with the choice (this is not an exaggeration), I will often choose the wrong door, not realizing it's the wrong door, and can progress a few rooms before I recognize that I'm going the wrong way, unless I keep constantly checking my map.
My vision is not stellar. I'm wondering if it's even worse than I thought, now. I just tested the opacity thing out and I need it at about 75% before I can reliably read that Missile meter. I can see the map and radar well earlier that than, maybe around 40-50%
With the Thermal visor, yes there is a spot inside the triangle that shows the game play. It's tiny as hell and the triangle really had no point to put in there. You obviously know that you are in Thermal mode - why is a big triangle in the view necessary? And about the inside of the helmet blocking useless parts of the screen - just because it's not blocking useful visual information, doesn't mean that it doesn't affect the way I see the game. It, together with the HUD and the field of vision, add to the cramped view experience.
As I said to Graveworm, just because a problem in a game has a workaround, doesn't eliminate the flaw from the game. Yes, I can run around those Chozo ghosts, but what if I wanted to try and see the room, or explore a bit, to see if I missed something? Whoops, I can't, because now the room is pitch black, and I've got to spend time killing these guys. It's not terribly difficult, but it's not very fast, and gets repetitive quickly.
Another thing is that saying Super Metroid has some of the same problems as Metroid Prime isn't going to make my perception of Metroid Prime any better. If anything it can make my perception of Super Metroid worse.
How do you beat Metroid Prime without the Scan visor? You have to activate all sorts of switches, elevators, and so forth.
The realism I seem to hate is the kind that sacrifices inutitive and/or fun game play. It's like food spoiling in Metal Gear Solid 3.
TixFrix:
Your first two paragraphs is another argument that assumes realism -> good game, or at least, that realism -> don't complain about the game. I think that's an incorrect assumption.
Your point about the HUD agrees with my point that making it translucent enough to not affect play can make playing the game very difficult.
I have the original version (not Player's Choice), but since I haven't done any crazy breaks like early Plasma, it hasn't affected how I played, I don't think. I haven't played MP2.
I can compare the two games because they both say "Metroid" in the title. But I did that very little - everyone else here is doing more comparisons to Super Metroid than I did.
You have jogged my memory about Super Metroid's original route. I should play through it that way and compare it to MP's original route. However, I don't think the path is as long as the back-and-forth you do in Metroid Prime. As I said, both games have backtracking, but MP's is a lot more of a "connect-the-dots" feel.
Maur:
You've made good points about the control. I blame some of the problem on the layout of the gamecube controller itself, but that's straying from the original topic. However, given a proper controller (meaning, non-analog shoulder buttons), I don't see a problem with both dual-stick play and lock-on both being present.
Graveworm:
20 years ago videogames were made for people to play them and have fun for a while, today they're mostly made so that you'll play it once, and then go buy a new one, so that you'll spend as much money as possible on videogames.
It's true :(
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Graveworm, good to see you back.
Please understand that I'm not writing this article to insult fans of the game. This is simply how I feel about it. I know that I am in the minority, and that this is one of the most popular games out there. But to me, it does suck.
I don't see the point of phrases like "Well if you don't like it, go play another game." I will, I have been for a long time. I do own the game and I've played through it twice - the first time because I kept thinking I just wasn't used to it, the second time in a serious attempt to try and like it despite its flaws. But talking bad about it isn't automatically a bad thing, and I'm certainly justified in doing so. I'm not telling the fans to go play it and stop posting the good things about it.
The game seems to have a quality that people appreciate the more they play it. I'm told to "get used to" the small field of view, or that if I'm getting lost, I can just switch to the map (I addressed this many times, it breaks up the flow of the game), and I can run past monsters instead of fighting them, so I shouldn't complain that they continually respawn. Yeah the game's dark, but the makers intended it that way for atmosphere or whatever, so I should stop complaining.
No. Finding workarounds to a game's flaws doesn't eliminate the flaws from the game - it only avoids situations that exploit them, but the game's code has not changed, and the flaws are still there.
I also did play Metroid Prime during the evening - I had to! During the day, I could not see well enough to play it at all (except for parts of Phendrana and probably a bit of Magmoor as well). I thought I said this in the article but reading it again, it was stated in a very roundabout way, so meh.
About Samus's hand, I wasn't even very bothered by it. I put it in the article as a reference to something that a fan might say adds to the realism of the game, not as a gripe itself. The gripe would be about someone seeing the hand go up after the hit and say "See? What a realistic and therefore awesome game."
If nothing happened you'd probably whine about that though.
This is unnecessary. Like I said, I didn't write this to insult fans of the game.
Other points I've already written several times and feel no need to further repeat.
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Turning the hud to 0: you lose missles, minimap, radar, and the other useless shit bars. Luckily however, the gurus at Nintendo up with this new invention called the 'slide bar' which lets you select values between totally off, and totally on. So, if you REALLY need the missles/radar/map then putting it to about 40% will almost get rid of the bars, but you can still see the map radar and missles fine.
I can't. I don't see them both "fine". Maybe everyone else has super vision except me. I always see them both, I can't block the HUD out to look at the terrain behind it. I need to make the HUD opaque enough to be able to read my Missile count (which by the way, I need since when I don't have it, I run out at crappy times). At that level of opaque, now it gets in the way when I'm trying to scan the environment not in my direct line of sight for things like passages, doorways, enemies, items, etc.
Also, I didn't quote your first paragraph, but I did read it. It was basically a set up to your other points, so I didn't feel the need to quote it. Please don't respond that I didn't read your post - I think you have zero right to accuse anyone of not reading shit by this point.
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Everything I said applied to your entire post. Do you really need shit hammered into your head? If so, give me a few minutes to compile it all, and I'll edit this post.
Edit: Ok, here's your "more to read".
Here I go, sentence by sentence.
BoltR wrote:
My point is: A lot of issues you complain about for no reason. They are either a non issue, or can be fixed through the settings mention (Which you acknowledge later in the article).
I complain about them because they make the game play less fun for me.
Non-issues are all based on individual user experience.
Things that can be fixed (the HUD and helmet) are mentioned in the article. The helmet is said to be a non-issue in the article. The HUD includes information that is needed when playing.
Saying "the HUD is too big" isn't an issue because you can turn it off.
Except that information that is pretty important to gameplay goes bye bye with it. (Mentioned in the article) (Quoted from previous post) (Also mentioned in above sentence)
Saying "it's too dark" is a user problem, not a problem with the game. Your problem with having to look at the map is likely because of this too.
(This response is word-for-word on the previous post. Notice that I addressed the user-problem idea, the darkness, and the map - all three things you questioned.)
All I can give is my experiences playing the game. I can't put myself in someone else's body who has better dark vision and/or attention to detail and/or better memorization of 3D landscaping and say "Well, even though I personally find this game terribly frustrating due to its dark visuals etc., others may not, so I'll ignore this point."
Similarly, all you can give is your experience playing the game. So every time you say that the problem is because of the user (me), you are stepping out of the bounds of fair critique. Everyone just assumes I don't memorize maps fast enough, or that my TV is defective, or that I close my eyes until I get to a door, because my playing experience wasn't identical to yours. Get that shit out of here.
"Having to go back to places i've been before once I get a new item" is also a terrible complaint. Have you played any of the other Metroids? The first thing you do it go get the morph ball, and then BACKTRACK to get the bombs, because 'HEY I THOUGHT I SAW A LITTLE HOLE NEAR THE START'. That is the game mechanics of a Metroid game (and now Castlevania), i'm not sure how you missed that one.
(From previous post)
Yes, because I haven't clearly stated several times that it's much worse in this game than others (note that this isn't equivalent to saying it's non-existent in others). Wait, yes I did, with the phrase "connect-the-dots".
ADDITIONAL TEXT: Yes I've played many other Metroids. Yes, backtracking is required, but not to the level that this game is. You literally go back and forth in Prime across the entire game to get a sequence of three or four items (I can't remember, but I think it involves the thermal visor, grapple beam, plasma beam, x-ray visor, maybe the spider ball too? It's been a while) unless you use some crazy sequence breaks - breaks that you need to play the game a long time to understand and perform successfully. Playing this game a long time isn't something I want to do with all the problems it has.
The FOV complaint is probably the only that has any real merit. That is if it actually made a difference to the game play. It's not like the enemies are always dancing in your blind spot. Shit, that is like me complaining that in 2D Metroid games enemies can shoot me from off screen. Why couldn't they have just zoomed out? Give me more viewing angle? Come on, they can see me but I can't see them? That's bullshit.
My previous response noted how there are more things that are annoying than enemies when your view is crippled. Since all you did was discuss problems with enemies, I will explain other things that the view affects that are of a different nature, which will show that I have in fact read your entire post. Let's begin:
The main thing is just a feeling that I don't have enough view to process what the hell I'm doing, or where I'm going, or just to actually feel like I have a grip on the game's happenings - enemies or not. Climbing up a room, running around in water, trying to find the door hidden behind some dimly-lit rock formation that looks very similar to all the other dimly-lit rock formations... these are all things that are made more tedious and artifically difficult due to the crippled field of vision.
You also missed down the screenshot. If I turn down the brightness which it was to be emulated at, HEY LOOK I CAN'T SEE I'M DOING. Just like if I were to turn down the brightness. Maybe Nintendo should have put one of those gray scale images which PC game makers have been putting in their games. "IF YOU CAN"T SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO BOXES YOUR MONITOR IS TO DARK"
Maybe they should have. In the mean time, please continue to assume that it is my fault and I forgot to check the brightness on my TV. That idea must never have come to me when the game was too dark. It's just not an intuitive solution, I suppose. Also, giant orange sarcasm flag.
If you'd still like more to read, let me know and I can continue to repeat myself, and you can continue to skim over it and incorrectly summarize what I've written. But please, no more "I know you are but what am I" posts. This "discussion" with you is becoming tedious.
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BoltR wrote:
Saying "the HUD is too big" isn't an issue because you can turn it off.
Except that information that is pretty important to gameplay goes bye bye with it. (Mentioned in the article)
Saying "it's too dark" is a user problem, not a problem with the game. Your problem with having to look at the map is likely because of this too.
All I can give is my experiences playing the game. I can't put myself in someone else's body who has better dark vision and/or attention to detail and/or better memorization of 3D landscaping and say "Well, even though I personally find this game terribly frustrating due to its dark visuals etc., others may not, so I'll ignore this point."
Similarly, all you can give is your experience playing the game. So every time you say that the problem is because of the user (me), you are stepping out of the bounds of fair critique. Everyone just assumes I don't memorize maps fast enough, or that my TV is defective, or that I close my eyes until I get to a door, because my playing experience wasn't identical to yours. Get that shit out of here.
"Having to go back to places i've been before once I get a new item" is also a terrible complaint.
Yes, because I haven't clearly stated several times that it's much worse in this game than others (note that this isn't equivalent to saying it's non-existent in others). Wait, yes I did, with the phrase "connect-the-dots".
The FOV complaint is probably the only that has any real merit. That is if it actually made a difference to the game play.
JXQ wrote:
<Upthorn> In fact, the radar is why the small viewing angle is not an issue.
This is ridiculous. I still look at the screen and it doesn't look right to me. It affects the entire play, not just fighting enemies.
Seriously, did you just read the titles to my article and look at the pictures?
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BoltR, in case you missed this as well:
JXQ wrote:
And that responses to an editorial like this in the form of "no it's not" to "the game is dark", or "you CAN see" to "you can't see" are meaningless to address.
Watching a few runs on M2K2 a while ago, I don't recall them being any brighter than the game is on my TV. Perhaps everyone else just has better attention to detail than I do?
Another thing you ignored:
JXQ wrote:
you may have to put yourself into someone else's shoes if you already extensively know the game, instead of thinking that anyone who doesn't know the game as well as you is an idiot.
I didn't write this article to personally attack the fans of the game, and there's no need to search for insult that isn't there. BoltR, I think your attitude in this thread isn't constructive to whatever argument you're trying to address, which I still haven't pinned down. So far, all I get is "If you do things to Super Metroid that make it more like Metroid Prime, the game gets worse." I agree with this statement.
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Since you didn't read the article too closely, I'll remind you that I touched on the fact that many rooms are very dark, and very similar in environments and/or details so that until you memorize the map extensively (remember, I said this yesterday as well), it's very very easy to get lost and turned around. As I also said yesterday, you may have to put yourself into someone else's shoes if you already extensively know the game, instead of thinking that anyone who doesn't know the game as well as you is an idiot.
Keep trying, maybe some day you'll get me to change my opinion via ridicule!
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BoltR wrote:
Samus sez: LOLZ WHERE R I??
Good point. From your pictures of Super Metroid, I can clearly deduce that Metroid Prime is much better than I originally gave it credit for.
My altered screenshots were to serve the purpose of some comic relief between by long-winded complaining. No one wants to hear complaint after complaint after complaint about anything without something cheery or funny in between. Obviously, I didn't use my altered screenshots when actually discussing what I didn't like about the game. (I didn't say, "Wow that CNN ticker sure is useless! What was Nintendo thinking?")
The difference between my altered screenshots and yours is that you failed to acknowledge (or purposefully ignored?) is that in Super Metroid, you have the rest of the screen to look at - you just removed it for your screenshots. In Metroid Prime, a doorway is your entire view. To familiarize yourself more, you have to turn all around, check out the environment (if light is available), and/or open up your map, rotating it about to get your bearings. This gets old quickly.
Your screenshot is also similar to the one at the bottom of my page, asking if Super Metroid would be worth playing if you couldn't see much of anything except what's right in front of you under a huge light source - as is the case with Prime. Obviously you've stated that same point in a different way, thank you!
When will silly ol' me learn that this game really is good? I'm so disadvantaged, have pity on me :'(
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I guess I should point out that if you are a fan of this game, of course you're going to disagree with what I wrote. And that responses to an editorial like this in the form of "no it's not" to "the game is dark", or "you CAN see" to "you can't see" are meaningless to address.
Some points I will touch on:
<MissileWaster> go outside at night
<MissileWaster> notice anything?
<MissileWaster> nope, cause its DARK
<MissileWaster> so a video game might be dark
Another argument of realism -> good game.
<Zeke> Yeah, and other complaints he makes are endemic to games in general
<Zeke> Like "good thing I got the boss's weakness right before the boss"
Not so in typical Metroids (at least to the degree in MP). That's one of the things that's so nice about them.
<Brushy> But [the doors] aren't next to each other. You just need to memorize them or quickly check your map. I don't know what makes it so annoying.
Checking your map, over and over again to make sure you're in the right spot, since after you've played through the area, all the rooms on the map are orange. That's what's annoying, it breaks up the gameplay. The alternative is to "memorize them"? I discussed this in the article as well.
<Brushy> This makes me think you're flaming this game because you're not good in it.
You are right that I'm not good at it. The reason is due to frustrations about the more often-found things in the game that I wrote about. So you could be right, indirectly. And, I'm not "flaming" the game. It's not a personal buddy that I'm making fun of, it's meant to be critiqued.
<Kyrsimys> That writeup wasn't really very fun to read, it seemed to me that you were just griping for the sake of griping.
I'm sorry? No, I'm not. I just wrote it to summarize my own thoughts, and share with others. It very much was griping just to gripe.
<Kyrsimys> I don't understand why you are complaining about the visors.
They need to be used more than should be necessary for such an even-shittier HUD (especially the Thermal visor). Through the lab after you acquire it, all over the wrecked ship, various spots in the mines to see the stupid enemies. Yes, it's a different view. It's awful. I would have greatly prefered no visors, or maybe a merged set that displays a bit of thermal info on the regular view, so you could still see the environment and walk around in it.
<Upthorn> but every enterance way looks different.
Huh? Disagree. This is what I mean. Of course the doors themselves are identical, but the environment is too similar as well. And I don't think Super Metroid suffers from this nearly as bad, because the game being 2D, there is not as much to take in and process about the environment - it's easier to identify things.
<Upthorn> In fact, the radar is why the small viewing angle is not an issue.
This is ridiculous. I still look at the screen and it doesn't look right to me. It affects the entire play, not just fighting enemies.
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That might help. But whatever you do, be sure to not wait until done fully reading to summarize your thoughts on the subject.
So I'm guessing, you like Metroid Prime?
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<BoltR> As Super Metroid was articifial difficulty in that snese too
example? The sense I referred to in Metroid Prime was the feeling of "hey, let's make a new weapon and figure out why it's needed later!" I dont have that feeling in Super Metroid, it's much more seamless.
<BoltR> And the game had a minimap with a compass
Right, I referred several times that I had to keep checking said map to make sure I wasn't getting turned around. Once you have memorized the whole game, this becomes a non-issue, so if you know the game well, you may need to think of it from a different perspective.
<BoltR> And the rooms did look different
<BoltR> As different as they did in Super Metroid anyways
Disagree
<BoltR> And you have a crappy field of vision in all FPS
I dont have the cramped feeling when playing other FPS's, nor do I recall a screen stretched to make the field of vision smaller than it should appear to be. And, this makes Metroid Prime better how?
<BoltR> You could turn the visor off
<BoltR> If you bothered to goto the settings menu
You could see that I commented on that, if you bothered to read the whole thing.
<BoltR> There were only a few rooms that I found I couldn't see in
<BoltR> And those were ones that were suppose to be pitch black
Brightness on my TV was turned up sufficiently (I did think of trying that)
<BoltR> Too much shit on the screen
<BoltR> again
<BoltR> You could turn that off
Again, read more.
<BoltR> Though I suppose I actually read through it all, so it wasn't a total waste.
Lol you did?
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
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I love how Tompa posted that without indicating that there's many theories about what the timeline could be and that Nintendo hasn't released an official timeline.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
That might help. But whatever you do, be sure to not wait until done fully reading to summarize your thoughts on the subject.
So I'm guessing, you like Metroid Prime?
