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moozooh wrote:
It seems that sound channels 1—5 are responsible for the background SPC ("music") playback, and 6—8 for other sound effects. I didn't test it throughout the whole game, though.
As far as I can tell, you can't mess with that kind of settings in Snes9x without modifying the code (I myself used one of the ZSNES latest WIPs to check that).
ZSNES you say... *investigates*
This is awesome. You can disable sound channels. This means I could record individual sound effects and slowly paste them onto the video. (Unfortunately, being ZSNES, I can't just load up my movie file and record the entire thing music-less...)
I've done more tedious sound-engineering projects than this, and there can't be that many different sound effects to this game.
We'll see how this goes.
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It would be neat to watch the run without those delays, from the items and the doors.
I've actually been trying to figure out if there's a variable I can poke at which determines the game's music. This way, I might be able to turn it off and record just the sound effects to the run. Then I could take the existing AVI video, remove the pauses, and paste those sound effects in. Finally, I would record the music tracks seperately that would be needed, and place them into the run at the appropriate times. This way, the sound effects and music aren't constantly cutting into the wrong parts (from removing the pause sequences).
So far, no luck with the music thing though.
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If you have SNES9x improvement-v9, there is a "watch" button in this menu that will allow you to do exactly this. The values will appear just above where frame count appears if you have that enabled. If you have improvement-v7, I believe this feature wasn't yet implemented.
You can find v9 here.
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Sonic 1 and 2? I'm guessing the subtleties are quite different, because in Sonic 1, running at a faster speed than the "allowed maximum" and pressing forward will actually slow Sonic down.
25% speed is probably not an easy way to optimize things to the frame level. Jumping at different frames can subtlely change the horizontal momentum. If you overcorrect on a stop, simply reload and try stopping on a different frame.
I don't know much about Sonic 2.
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But does Mega Man start at the same height in every level? I don't think he does (Bubble Man is quite high, for example), so the height must be reset between levels. Maybe this is done on the screen that introduces the level bosses, and so Wily 1 is a special case. This could be tested by killing Bubble Man in this way when another robot boss is still alive.
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Hopefully I won't come off as an arrogant prick talking about my own movie and its star-worthiness. But some points I have about whether this run should get a star: (based on what has stars now and what I percieve the ideal "star" run to be)
1) Super Metroid 100% (as opposed to the any% run) has some more tricks to be exploited for unexpected speed (mostly with the Spring Ball), which is fun to watch.
2) The SMW 100% has a star rather than the SMW-11 exit run, and it's longer than this run, so I don't think the time is much of an issue.
The vote count also far exceeded my expectations, although this doesn't imply that it should automatically get a star. However, I personally think the run turned out to be a good example of what is possible with tool-assistance as opposed to normal playing.
Star or not, I'm definitely happy with the response this run got!
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GuanoBowl wrote:
yeah, I killed Ryan because he wont have to move up to waste time. Plus he has no extra power so he doesnt lose any. I thought it is funny watching him jump off.
I realize that, but it seemed there were a couple times you could have done this and didn't. Examples - frames 2100 and 5000.
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Kejardon's knowledge of the game is very comprehensive. He updated memory addresses section at the Super Metroid Tricks page far beyond what I could figure out from watching the memory.
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KDR_11k wrote:
Naah, I mean the short charging, you only press dash on the frames where it checks. I'm wondering if you can do something similar with the directional input (e.g. when moving right only pushing right on certain frames) to make the charge distance even shorter? Does the game check for that every frame?
This what I thought you meant, I just must have explained it badly. For example, when fighting Phantoon, I press -> for 2 frames, and release for 2 frames. I was thinking maybe slow walking like this (or some derivative) combined with short shinespark charging would allow even shorter distances (like the platform before the Wave Beam). However, I couldn't get it to work, and I later confirmed with the game's memory that releasing the direction you are running, even if for only one frame, no matter how close you are to running full speed, will put the speed-boost counter back at zero.
Fabianx wrote:
It would be very nice if you could stop this voluntarily without having to wait to crash into a wall ...
Kejardon told me about a way to slightly lower the effect of this - by using a charged beam power bomb combo when shinesparking, a second shinespark in the same room will end faster. I haven't tried it, so I don't know how effective it is, and I also can't think of a place it would help in the run, but here's what Kejardon told me:
Also on the topic of beam tricks, if you have a 4-projectile charge beam combo going and you do a super jump, one of the echoes will not fire off because the projectile array is full already (5 projectiles max)
The useful part is that the *next* set of super jump echoes will still be prepped to fire, and so you will cut off a lot of the super jump ending wait. The catch is that it has to be within the same room, leaving the room will lose the effect.
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Graveworm:
Thanks for answering that mystery for me :)
Fabianx (and indirectly, KDR_11k):
Frame 55000 - There isn't enough space here to charge a shinespark. This area gave me the same idea that KDR_11k mentioned, but as he guessed, releasing "forward" resets the speed boost level counter.
Frame 160000 - moozooh was right. I also tried speed-morphballing through here (so only one block needed to be destroyed) but Samus still took some damage in the process which ultimately made it a bit slower.
Ducking to charge a Shinespark does make Samus slide a bit, is that what you were referring to? Unfortunately, using L or R to stop-on-a-dime gets rid of Samus's echoes and so she can't charge the spark.
Oddity:
In theory, yes. This part was very goofy as far as which movements got the Metroid to latch onto me and which ones didn't. I also had to make sure I could at least get onto the lower platform before the Metroid got me. But you could probably improve this part by 10 frames or so, if optimal conditions were met.
Qlex:
Thanks! But currently I'm not working on an improvement, I just am keeping a log of what I see that could be improved.
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So far this is my take:
Boss fights are quite entertaining and generally not as laggy as I thought they would be. The rest of the game is beyond boring, but that's not your fault.
Question - Ryan committed suicide a few times in the middle, but not the first time he was on those screens (the screen that Moose is in, for example). Any reason?
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Improvement list for Super Metroid 100%
General improvements:
More use of the lower-corner hitbox glitch (I didn't understand how it worked near the beginning, so I didn't use it in places I thought it wouldn't improve, when it actually would have).
Now that I know the specific route, including all weapons use and collection, it could be optimized even more (I was playing a bit conservatively in this regard).
Figure out what determines if the Space Jump can be used after 5 frames or 23 frames of not holding the jump button (it was always one or the other, and seemed to depend on the room).
There are many places that more frames could be squeezed out as a result of more extensive testing than I did.
Route improvements:
Missiles (88) to be gotten at (52) - these are the Missiles in the green tube. This way, on the way to old Brinstar at the end, the entire room can be traveled with the Speed Mock Spring Ball.
High Jump (24-26) to be gotten at (12-14) - Saturn pointed out that it saves in-game time overall with Crocomire first. Even if you don't switch the Hi-Jump boots off, it probably still saves some time. However, a way to get energy back before shinesparking to the Wrecked Ship needs to be incorporated or this won't work.
Room improvements:
2:23 - Ceres can be improved by ~10 frames altogether (with 49.04 being the current best escape time).
6:08 - Can jump one platform farther at the beginning of the room
6:50 - Chozo can be manipulated into jumping immediately instead of swinging his arms at first
7:31 - Different bomb technique, may save a few frames
12:02 - Could reduce lag by firing beam later (and still hitting Kraid just as early)
12:33 - Try getting hit by enemy and spikes?
15:17 - Use 5 Missiles on this door instead of the next one
20:19 - May be faster to unroll and re-roll near the ground (to avoid bouncing)
21:20 - Can be optimized a bit to have more speed when jumping to the left
25:10 - Use grapple beam delay cancel to open door earlier and get more mockball speed
35:39 - Get Missiles here (also would probably change the scenario to make enemy damage more smooth-looking)
35:50 - May be possible to run not as fast (still with speed echoes) and mockball into the door, breaking the floor in the next room
37:36 - Use Power Bomb earlier and regular bomb to jump up
38:50 - May be faster to run across all three platforms instead of jumping over the second
38:56 - Do not waste a power bomb here (This was the bonehead move of the run)
39:16 - Aim down instead of spin-jumping
39:26 - I redid this room a lot, but I have a feeling it can still be improved
40:47 - Experiment more with shine-sparking into fast-moving Draygon - perhaps he can be hit many times with the same shinespark, saving ammunition and time
41:54 - Can be improved, see example at 46:42 of the same run
42:23 - Use right-facing diagonal shinespark instead of straight up
48:42 - Try using a power bomb when first morphballing
49:20 - Kill enemies differently and try using knockback (Teri's any% run does this, not sure if it's faster in this case though)
49:46 - Aim down when falling
49:50 - Use Missiles if possible, to avoid lag
50:18 - I thought I tried this, but I can't be sure...instead of mockballing, short charge a shinespark and then use it to sail through the next two rooms
50:36 - Try to reduce lag by killing enemies sooner
51:03 - Try not using speed echoes and instead getting more speed, dodging fire, and spring-balling farther in the next room
52:48 - It may be faster to not shinespark, and instead just space-jump through here quickly with the screw attack
57:30 - This block broken by a power bomb can be broken by the screw attack
58:35 - I slow down to collect some reserve energy, but this could easily be collected by metroids in Tourian
59:49 - It may be faster to just run, space jump, mockball, and spring through these two rooms instead of shinesparking
1:00:20 - I couldn't get it to work, but perhaps mockballing here would allow jumping into the top chamber and continually bouncing at mockball-speed; however, the first gate would still need to be shot at some point - maybe they could both be power bombed with the same bomb
1:01:09 - I'll already have this Missile, so keep on speeding and bouncing left
1:04:45 - Test building up a shinespark and then shinesparking to the left after collecting the Power Bomb
1:08:10 - You can actually reach the door before the Metroid catches you, but since enemies remain active during the fadeout period, I doubt it's possible to completely avoid...and if you leave the room with the metroid attached to you, your running speed remains at a very slow crawl for the rest of the game
1:12:10 - Although I spent a good amount of time on the Zebes escape, I'm sure it's improvable
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Oddity's ?s:
There isn't enough room to build a shinespark before the X-ray beam. You generally need about one screen length of room. Same goes for the room near the Wave Beam you asked about, and for Ridley's room. Your other improvements are all possible, but may or may not be faster (I swear I tested most of them, but I can't be sure)...
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Warp wrote:
I was thinking if there were any console games where such run would be feasible (supermetroid is not feasible because the monsters respawn, but this seemed like a natural place to post the question...)
How about Goldeneye? Although if I remember correctly, there are places that continually spawn enemies if the ones beginning in that room aren't killed - Bunker second time (level 9) on 00 Agent, for example.
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You sufficiently broke this game. Although it sucks that the sequence between levels is longer than probably all the levels themselves. What happens if you walk to the left "exit" instead of right "play"?
I also liked Botanic Base 1, where Knuckles turned into KNUCKLES.
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Also, you can still vote after the movie is published. So it may seem odd to ask if a movie should be published if it already is. But if it asks for something like entertainment, people will be inclined to vote their opinion regardless of whether or not it's published, which I think is a good thing.
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Comments:
Around frame 340, you grapple 2 times, which looks optimal. But around frame 700, you grapple 3 times, when it looks like you could do it one more time afterwards. Did you test this out to see if it's faster? Same with around frame 900.
Don't worry about someone else TASing this game, just take the time to do it well :)
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I understand that this could be not entertaining for some people. Another reason could be that the screen transitions somewhat break up the flow of a possible break-neck paced run (toward the end, anyway). And if one isn't familiar with the game, then this could be boring or maybe even overwhelming to watch.
Anyway, I appreciate all feedback, good and bad, so no worries!
Tompa wrote:
What will be the next insane TAS?
I've got some future project ideas listed on my personal page here, although I don't know if any qualify as insane ;)
The link to that page: http://tasvideos.org/JXQ.html
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Thanks so much to everyone so far for the votes and comments (and off topic hilariousness).
To answer various questions:
saving the animals would easily put my in-game timer at the next minute. But it wouldn't take too much effort to amend my run to incorporate the saving of those things.
Using a power bomb after Missile 70 - it sure seems faster, looking at it now. But I'm pretty sure I tested it and had big lag problems there. I may be misremembering, however. I plan on making a list of things that are improvable at some point.
The first shot on Kraid opens his mouth, but it could have been fired later, so it wouldn't be on screen as long, and reduce lag a bit.
I did the majority of route planning myself, although I watched several console and emulated runs after I had much of my route complete to make sure I wasn't missing any known ideas. The only route change I would make would be to pick up Missiles 88 (the green tube in Brinstar) the second time through, not the third, so that I could Speed-Mock-Spring-Ball all the way to the top during the third time.
There's a thread about this submission at M2K2... "BlueGlass" posted a couple ideas for improvement, so I'll comment on them here:
Speed-mockball on the way to Maridia when going from green to orange Brinstar to break through the floor. At the time I could not get the door open in time, but it may be possible to not run as fast and be able to open this door early enough to get through it with the mockball. This would save some time, and look cool.
The other improvement was in regards to round 1 of the Mother Brain fight. However, my first Mother Brain fight is optimal, because using 9 Missiles and 9 Super Missiles causes the glass around Mother Brain to break upon the last Super Missile hit, which causes about a 15-20 frame delay before the explosion starts happening. With 12 Missiles and 8 Super Missiles, I am avoiding this delay at the expense of 10 frames for an extra round of Missiles vs. 1 Super Missile. This saved Super Missile also saves me about ten more frames because 3 Super Missiles cause as much damage as one charged shot in about 10 less frames, and saving this one bumped me up from 11 to 12. Without groups of three, the first two are useless.
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Kaz, I just want to offer some encouragement! This is going to be a phenomenal run to watch when it's complete.
At least you don't have to redo any of the luck manipuation with the early enemies before the feather :)
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