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RBO WIP
Ridley is dead.
Just some short notes;
Uhm.
At the energy refill station in norfair you can see me using up a 80/100 from a reserve tank, I had gathered energy refills to try if LN was possible with 1 less energy tank. My tests were not completely fruitless; it is possible, but needs some insane ammo/energy management, which I don't possess. I take that pause screen to turn off ice/spazer, so no harm done. Enjoy.
Edit: forgot to mention. Took Saturn's route instead. I know, it's slower, but many people said that it was way more entertaining with norfair first. So do I.
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Fano wrote:
taco is awsome. is there any more improvment that you can see?
There is still one left, but don't keep your hopes up on that one. I think that Taco will pretty much give up Ceres now ;]. And I got Elite Pirates to worry about; the other fecka only wants to give me 5 SMissiles and a normal missile, and we wouldn't want that.
Edit: Good news. It just dropped me 6 super missiles. Expect new WIP very soon =)
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Taco wrote:
49'20
I was able to skip both frame delays in Ceres (one before the scientist room and one before the steam / debris room). I always knew it was possible somehow, but only just now got it to work.
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Saturn wrote:
Kriole wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm unsure if I may spoil. But in Ceres, there is a possible 6 frame improvement, which I and Taco will start working on soon.
This is bullshit. Maybe I would believe if it'd be 1 frame, but 6 (assuming you mean ingame-frames only), all of a sudden, is way too much to be realistic, especially in a place like Ceres.
Hihi. You are so funny =). The potential does exist, and that will bring us up to 49'25~'27.
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Cpadolf wrote:
Also creative as you are I can not believe that you are still slower than my old any% in the purple diagonal room, though it is only 1 frame now I excpected you to find a faster strategy than mine.
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Saturn wrote:
Why you don't show it then? After all you mentioned to have "regained" some frames somewhere, didn't you? :-)
I'm sorry, I'm unsure if I may spoil. But in Ceres, there is a possible 6 frame improvement, which I and Taco will start working on soon.
Saturn wrote:
But no, to be honest, the only theoretical possibility to ever save a frame in my entire Zebes-demo until pre-Torizo, would be in the mainstreet room when running over that mountain on the way to OTES, by optimizing subpixels to not being forced to skip any arm pumps during all the slopes there. I tried alot of variations though, and came to the conclusion that it's impossible to be faster there. You mentioned to skip 0 pumps for just 1 dash frame, but I don't see that in your latest RBO WIP, which means that it's same fast at best or slower than my strategy.
...what? Frame 16073.
Saturn wrote:
Speaking of the RBO WIP, very solid done so far, Kriole.
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evilchen wrote:
good wip, much better didnt check frames now but looked much better :P
Until Green Brinstar I'm 79 frames ahead of my old run. Until pink brinstar SS shaft, I'm 67 frames ahead of myself, due to 1 more picked up missile expansion.
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Happiness
As for the super missile door leading to the big sidehopper room in Red Brinstar, shooting at it diagonally was NOT 2 frames faster. The super missile hit the door at the same frame in both instances. You need hi-jump boots to execute it in a way so that it saves frames. I still shot at it diagonally for variation ;]
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Fano wrote:
sorry to ruin you pride Saturn, but how is you WIP "perfect" (excluding the pre-torizo room) if you didn't know about the frame Kriole/Taco found on the way to Ceres Ridley?
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After exiting the crateria mainstreet, I think you can gain a frame when jumping into the escape shaft by using the release forward trick. I have not tested if it can be improved, but it might be worth looking into.
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moozooh wrote:
Kriole wrote:
I got 0 at the first door in Crateria
Nice to hear that; I'm keeping it on my to-check list because it can help in not skipping pumps on the four slopes in the mainstreet before jumping down the Torizo turf in preparation for the moozooh jump. How many pumps did you skip with a position of 0? IIRC, to save a frame, you can't skip pumping for more than two frames overall.
I skipped 0 arm pumps and, but 1 frame dash.
moozooh wrote:
Also, in regards to your earlier question about my frame counts, I can't answer you right now, but if you're in a hurry, you can check the first low% test WIP and see the ingame frame value during the blackout before the gunship lands.
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Saturn wrote:
Kriole:
I always suspected you to have the biggest potential to find many of the new tricks I discovered. You have proved it many times already. Getting the idea alone for this shaft strategy deserves respect already, as it requires one to be very creative and have very deep analyzing skills, because the gain is hardly noticeable unless the entire shaft is done.
Ooh, why thank you. I'm glad to say, that in my 49"15 testrun, I'm tied in frames with you until Blue Brinstar =). I lost some here and there but regained them through 'perfect' subpixel positioning. (I got 0 at the first door in Crateria, and 61440 in the door to the elevator) Let's see how I will cope in Blue Brinstar, taken that in my earlier test-runs I managed to gain 9 frames there from moozooh's test-wip.
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Kyrsimys wrote:
PJBoy: You don't think it's arrogant (and extremely disrespectful to moozooh) to say that the only reason moozooh managed to do the Torizo skip is Saturn?
moozooh did indeed thank Saturn for badgering him about it. And the things people are talking about is reverse psychologi.
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P.JBoy wrote:
I don't, the fact that he's been taunting everyone to be better than him has definatly improved that quality of super metroid TASing. Who can say they would have got a 49'17 without Saturn making that a goal, or the Torizo skip. People wanted to rub an achievment that he couldn't get in his face, and that has greatly benefited super metroid TASing
Extremely well put. This is very true and Saturn does indeed taunt people to become better than him, thus has improved the TASing in a very subtle way. Who knows. Maybe he took the role as a little bastard mocking everyone, just so that we become better than him and crush his annoyance.
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Tonski wrote:
Now after all this I just feel stupid. My idol of Tool-Assisted Speedrunning turned out to be like this. And I so happen to hate arrogant people... Sorry Saturn but I've just lost a lot of respect towards you.
Same here. Saturn was my tool of inspiration ;]. His attitude is rather dissapointing. People who are better at something should be humble and encouraging towards those who are less talented. Not condescending and disencouraging.
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JXQ wrote:
Kriole: You are very humble to give Saturn any credit for this effort at all. All of this ridicule he's receiving is absolutely deserved. Saturn sure can talk that shit, up until one of his perfect runs is completely molested, then he gets exactly what he dished out. He puts himself into this position - if you want to lie about how amazing you are, you have to deal with the consequences ones those lies are exposed.
:p
Since Saturn won't provide smv's he has to prove that he is "better" than everyone else through talking, and poking holes in other peoples runs. I understand he has been badgering moozooh very much, especially about Ceres.
Of course, this inevitably leads to very much bullshit, since his definition of perfection is a little off; anything he creates is perfect. Well, everything is perfect until proven otherwise. But I admit, he overuses the word perfect.
A fair reply to our discovering would be something "Yeah, you solved the 'mystery', good job fellas", or something slimey like that. His response was somewhat "Woo. You found the last frame. And you even improved my ceres. But you are still nowhere as good as me.".
God complex for life ;]
Edit: moozooh, can you provide your framecount for ceres which you got in your test-wip so one can compare fairly? It's not fun when I am 34 frames ahead and I think I am awesome, just to remember that your ceres is somewhat 20~ frames slower.
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I think it's time to lay off Saturn. Without him saying that he had gotten 49"15/3130, we would never even have bothered to find this improvement. I even discussed this with Taco, and he said that everytime he ran through his 49"13 escape he felt no single improvement whatsoever, so Saturn claiming that his one was perfect sounded indeed very plausible. At that time I said I felt one frame improvement in the run to Ridley, at which time Taco said "That's right", and then he spoiled his 800 frame run ;].
So Saturn gave us motivation to improve his part so to speak. Getting your hands on something awesome, I tell you, you wouldn't want to share it with anyone. I think Saturn made the right decision. But I would have acted different ;]. Giddiness takes upper hand and I would have provided smv's basking in my own glow of awesomeness.
Furthermore, Taco said he did Ceres a few times per day, which is understandable, since it becomes rather easy. Hell, after the second time I got 49"13 I could reproduce it under 400 rerecords.
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I and Taco bring you incredible news.
Recently Taco improved the run from the elevator to Ridley from the "perfect" 801 frames to 800 frames, though it did not go public until today. This did not only put us equal to Saturn's 3130, it did even give us the chance to improve it to 3129!
So, this very day, I was discussing possible improvements with Taco. I said that I managed to improve the last door from "84 to "87 but still get 49"13. Taco directly plunged into this, with his new 800 frame run at hand he improved the 49"13. Well, to what you all probably know.
I proudly present 3129
We believe that this is the ABSOLUTE perfect run whatsoever. Incredible amount of kudos to the one to improve this.
EDIT: Taco requested that I gave myself some more credit. So I will add that it was I, Kriole, who found the last escape frame.
