Ok. Allow me rewrite it in a language that you will understand:
I reckon that Fano should not start any new projects.
Pasting immature and clichéed wikipedia links is getting old.
I think the best way to determine a decent route is to make a run with a route that you think up as you proceed through the game. From there it is easy to pinpoint possible improvements and mayor changes to the route. Atleast that is what I have learned to be the most effective. All the best.
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Tonski wrote:
Fano wrote:
I'm thinking about doing a 100% TAS of this hack, but I need a route, and I'm not good at making routes. I hope someone can create a route, because I wouln't be able to do a 100% TAS without it. Thanks in adavance to anyone that tries to create a good route.
You gotta be kidding.
1. Tell me the number of TASes you've started.
2. Tell me the number of TASes you've actually finished.
Please?
Hahaha xD
Tbh I think I beat Fano7 in unfinished projects. Got about 10 unfinished projects, with only 1 finished. And mahahahaaaany hack projects. Way too many.
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I finally got around to compare my movie to moozooh's NBMB WIP movie, taken that he said he was 70 frames ahead of me. However, upon entering the corridor before the elevator to Green Brinstar you are 11 frames ahead of me, not 70. You maybe checked realtime frames? What do I know.
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I think I will actually cope with the amount of power bombs I have at the time.
I've seen skrees drop super missiles, do they actually drop power bombs? Would be handy to know. (Those green thingies charging at you from above)
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hero of the day wrote:
The other thing that bothered me was that you skipped the blue brinstar energy tank. I don't think you will have enough energy to kill ridley now, unless you use the pause glitch. Going to blue brinstar would have also given you another PB tank and missile tank.
Thanks for pointing this out, rather big mistake I did here. I will redo that part.
Tonski wrote:
Couldn't have you done one more corner boost on your way to the etecoon items in the room before the 4 Beetoms?
I could have, but it would get me longer from the door while it still was open. Would have wasted about 20-30 frames.
Tonski wrote:
And this one's just a thought, but could've you jumped over that hole into the super missiles and collect the etank on the way back, this way you wouldn't lose momentum on your way left but if it's faster to go forward armpumping from there...
I tested this, only to come to the conclusion that you need a very high speed, much more than 2.0 px/f to carry out the jump all the way to the super missiles without touching the ground. Also mockballing does not help, since you have to de-morph to get the missiles. In other words, speedbooster is needed to do that.
Tonski wrote:
And in the spike room could've you taken some kind of damage boost to the far left position on that ledge and ran to the etecoon room?
That is a possible improvement which does not save that much time, since I jump nearly as soon as I touch the ground.
Tonski wrote:
Was there a reason not to use a PB in dachora room? Save them to CF later?
Let's blame ammo shortage, the real reason being ignorance.
Tonski wrote:
Could've it been possible to jump to that grapple block while still opening the gate? I think here you could've saved some time.
Jumping to the grapple block is impossible, but getting there might be possible with some complex MBB jumping, which I did not even care to test. Falling down also gives me the missile refill.
Edit:
Cpadolf wrote:
Nice WIP, fells like you could have used more PB's in gauntlet though to save time, I know you need a bunch of them later but for example you could get 4 of them at the beetoms before the pre dachora room which would certainly take less time than you'd save at gauntlet.
With the energy I had at that moment, it was impossible to get those beetoms to drop power bombs.
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I took the liberty to update my RBO run.
Yay!
It covers the Gauntlet, green Brinstar Etecoon area (10 energy without annoying beeping), pink brinstar SS super missiles and reverse gate energy tank, spazer, and finally elevator to Norfair, where the movie ends. As usual, feel free to poke holes into it. I feel rather content with this update.
Enjoy ;]
Edit:
Saturn wrote:
Moozooh saved 2 frames before actually grabbing the bombs, which was expected. I just didn't consider this as a "part of the skip" at first.
It indeed was expected; if you check the jump before the pickup in frame advance, you can see me blindly going back and forth to get into the right position. I also considered "Torizo skip" to start after the Morph Ball Bomb sign had disappeared, so I was rather confused. (Since the torizo skip does not have a frame window of success)
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Fano wrote:
cry
Yes, I know it was short, but instead of releasing it in 90712558917 years when I'm finished with gauntlet, I saught advice with the giant side hopper room. -simuposts for the win-
However, facing an RBO, UWWJ's will probably be needed. And convinced that I was, the current "omg walljump as quick as possible" could not be the fastest anywhere. So I started some test:
All tests were done under the same conditions. Same starting position and same ending. The height was about 3 blocks, hi-jump equipped. By frame circle, that is how long I hold jump.
Three frame circle: took 339 frames.
Four frame circle: took 282 frames. 57 frames faster than the former.
Five frame circle: took 266 frames. 16 frames faster than the former.
Six frame circle: took 261 frames. 5 frames faster than the former.
Seven frame circle: took 255 frames. 6 frames faster than the former.
Eight frame circle: took 257 frames. 2 frames slower than the former.
I did not do any tests after that, looking at the pattern, I take it just gets slower and slower. So holding the jump button for 7 frames before executing the next jump underwater is the most optimal I found, 84 frames gained, over a 3 block distance, over the good ol' walljump as quick as possible. If anyone wants to disprove me, please do.
EDIT: Correction; the distance was 5 blocks.
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Tonski wrote:
By the way, I suggest you learn some more about suitless Maridia optimization, since your test SM:I-TAS was kinda ruined at that point. :/ It'd be nice to see actually how fast movement can be there.
Relax. My SM:I TAS was ruined since I was very unsatisfied with my ammo management. Having to revisit a room just to refill feels extremely unoptimized. Well, I have to admit, my standards were a little too high, being a test-run and all. Hell, I didn't even bother to do serious UWWJ's.
Next goal being gauntlet, which will be very hard to optimize. I'm going to see what I can do with the assets I have at the moment. Will be a little a lá impossible.
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Saturn wrote:
And I strongly recommend to redo the sidehopper room using the strategy Cpadolf showed. I think I even did this room a couple of frames faster in my RBO run, but it required the Wave/Spazer Beam which you don't have yet.
Otherwise it looks pretty good so far. Keep going.
I redid that room the way Cpadolf did. That and some other improvements put me about 45 frames ahead of myself =)
evilchen wrote:
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Woo! Double post.
Updated my run:
Reverse Boss Order WIP
Please be sure to poke holes into it. I feel that the big sidehopper room can be improved by some.
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Fano wrote:
and because your stopping you Gravy TAS, can I see your route (if you have 1 planned out) through a PM so I can finish it, unless you dont want me to (which is perfectly fine, as you might want to do it 1 day).
You can have the SMV and continue the run. I got far too many runs to do, and really don't feel like finishing the any%. Most of the tedious stuff is finished. Or the main tedious part. Mini-kraid; 6000 frame fight ;/
Just about to enter gauntlet in my RBO.. though I think I will redo the giant sidehopper room in red brinstar. Gauntlet without speed booster will be boring ;/
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hero of the day wrote:
Lookin good Kriole. I am happy to see that you are not just copying other people's input, but rather trying things on your own and showing off some great intuition. This Wip has nice stylistic choices and overall good optimization. Keep it up :)
Thank you =)
hero of the day wrote:
As for the route...so maybe a few tanks can be skipped.
Cpadolf and Saturn discussed this over at m2k2, so I am aware of it. Though I think I'm rather rash in my decisions; I often take way too many packs than needed.
hero of the day wrote:
The torizo exit looks cool, but I am pretty sure it is slightly slower. I think I managed to exit the room like that a few months ago, before I found the most optimal way of doing it. You can refer to Cpadolf's submission to see it.
Hmm, I think I did that in my Gravy TAS. This is also something I need to work on; instead of going with something that feels like the fastest, I should try very many different tactics to tackle a room/obstacle.
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moozooh wrote:
Well, that Torizo skip was 2 frames slower than the one I did in NBMB WIP, and in total you lost about 70+ frames up to the diagonal room in Crateria
Bah =/. Well I take comparing myself to you is a bit rash.
moozooh wrote:
I was very surprised you didn't take the missile tank there, though, since it's apparently much faster to take than the second missile tank in the treasure room with the r-tank. What was the reason for that?
No particular reason at all. I did not figure that I needed to take that crumble pack if I want to leave by taking the upper route, but it felt like it would be slower. Obviously, I was proven wrong.
moozooh wrote:
Also, I suggest redoing the room you stopped the smv at, since there's a considerably faster strategy for it (at least 10 frames faster).
Rest assured, I never intended to do that room that way. It's redone the way hero discovered/invented.
Saturn wrote:
Regarding Torizo, Cpadolf is right. You indeed can exit one frame faster than you did by using the release turn around. Both strategies are indeed exactly same fast in the end.
I figured if you exit the room in it's lowest possible position and sitting facing to the left, you'd avoid unnecessary airtime in the next room.
Saturn wrote:
Hopefully you will have the patience to pull this difficult project off till the end, as I'm sure it will turn out great when it's done. Good luck!
This is the first project I have actually taken serious. I mean, taking a look at Ceres; I first improved it from 47'73 to 48'87 and finally to 49'05. And this is the first TAS I'm actually content with. And considering I have dumped all my other projects, this should finish rather quickly. I am at the moment at the first PBombs in red brinstar.
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I actually dumped all my current projects and started a serious one. I started a RBO which will use hotd's route, slightly modified; picking up one of the pink brinstar tank and skipping crocomire.
The WIP can be found here
Now it is up to anyone giving a crap to check out what I do during the Torizo skip. It's kinda innovative.
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Saturn wrote:
moozooh wrote:
Yeah, I think Fano reported that in the m2k2 TAS thread some time ago. It happens if you let go of jump at a certain point, but I have no idea what logic makes Samus touch the door trigger in this case. IIRC, it was even a bit slower due to longer fall in the next room or something like that, though.
It's same fast as already said on IRC. You lose 1 frame in Torizos room during the exit, but save it back in the next room due to skipping the turn around animation.
I actually gained 1 frame I think. I exited at the same moment as all other transitions, but I did not need to turn around.
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I managed something weird today. I managed to skip torizo but facing left. I still pressed right but I got stuck so late that samus did not have time to turn around. Does not save any time whatsoever though.
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How come people are using springball to try and open this gate? Last time I checked the spring ball was located in Maridia, and that's where this gate is leading. Unless you prepare for alot of unnecesarry backtracking, using springball for this trick is completely pointless. I think it's time we realize and accept the fact that this gate is impossible unless you completely corrupt the game in some way. Like space/time beam or something. Although that one requires plasma beam, which also is in Maridia.
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Saturn wrote:
Welcome at TASvideos, Kriole.
Cheers =)
It's kinda good to know that the current techniques will not work for this reverse gate. Now I don't have to waste time to try out the impossible. Kinda ironic though =(
Saturn wrote:
And yeah, the early pink Brinstar E-Tank will allow you to skip Crocomire in heros RBO route, and thus making it the fastest possible one for this run. A major reason why I started consider to redo my RBO run (no decision yet though).
Let that decision rest until you are finished with your with redesign and SM any%TAS. I strongly vote against it though, since the RBO is the run from you that I anticipate the most.
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moozooh wrote:
Hey Kriole, while you're at it, can you confirm that doing the same is impossible with Maridia backdoor (the one accessed through the annex of red Brinstar shaft)?
I have actually been working on it, and I figured a method that might actually work: Jump, shoot, morph, roll into tunnel, roll out again. Though due to lack of motivation I have not been trying to make it work, or to check if it actually works. If someone is giddy enough, have a try.
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To make the thread more constructive, I decided to join and contribute with a trick that, according to Saturn, will change Hero of the day's RBO-route. Instead of visiting crocomire for his energy tank you can just collect the one in pink brinstar with an accurately placed super missile.
Link
