I didn't see the following opinion anywhere, so I figured I might as well state it:
Let the PAL run be the new official (unlabelled) any% run on TASvideos (since it is the fastest), and keep the current run in a new branch labelled "NTSC" (since it is of interest).
Hypothetical: If this were any generic game, would we have this much of a debate over it?
Most of the "any generic games" don't change physics in the PAL port, but just run slower, so another game that does what SMB does for the PAL port could certainly get this debate as well. That the game in this case is one of the most popular games ever made is not creating the debate, just making it louder.
Voted yes, because it was very entertaining. Even more so than the published NTSC run.
This submission is worthy of publication just by being the fastest any% smb run. That is a given. Whether it should obsolete the current any% run or not, is debateable.
Generally, I believe that a submitted run that is faster than a current record in the same category should obsolete. If a different version that allowed for more time saving was used, then that should be a good thing.
But I also understand that SMB is a special case. It is a very popular game to TAS and speedrun, and has a long history of optimization. Allowing PAL to compete with NTSC might even feel like cheating because of the history the game has.
Looking forward to read a nice well-motivated judge verdict, whatever it will be!
Very entertaining run, even the grinding was a joy to watch.
A n00b question: That cross you get from killing the flying head, why is that necessary or why does it save time?
What criteria determines whether a glitch should spawn its own branch? I understand "game end glitch" that doesn't even legitimately finish a game and "warp glitch" that skips large portions of a game, but why should a glitch that halfway through the run give you more ammo have its own category?
It is a natural part of the progression of TASes to exploit new glitches to get a better time. In a year from now, this glitch will be old and seen as a natural part of SM TASing.
Loved the run, very entertaining throughout. Somehow the run seemed so tight, like you only rushed straight to each boss without detours. I especially enjoyed Maridia, which I usually find a bit boring in SM runs.
It is my humble opinion that the ammo glitch should be allowed in a 100% run as well, as long as all 100 items are collected the intended way anyway. (For low%, however, I think it kind of conflicts with the purpose of the branch.)
Also, how did you do shinesparks before collecting the speed booster?
Very entertaining, not a single boring second from the bridge onward.
I laughed out loud out of surprise when Mike fell throug the water and climbed through the void.
Will this obsolete the current branch or become a "warp glitch" branch? If the latter, the new non-warp-glitch-glitches used in this movie should still be acceptable in the any% and 100% branches.
Anyway, great TAS McBobX. And thanks for making it!
Very impressive, highly entertaining.
And the commentary adds so much value to an already great video. I always feel that I understand your decisions since they are motivated exactly when they happen.
In case the submission text is still being updated, I'd be happy to see a section explaining what makes each of the 13 collected items mandatory, and why an alternative to any item would require more items or take longer time.
That, and thanks for a very, very entertaining and impressive TAS.
I personally think that it a bit disrespectful to talk about other categories in the submission threads after all that hard work, so I'm posting a question I have here instead:
Are any of the new techniques used in your warps and no warps runs also applicable in the glitched 5-minute run?
Loved so many parts of this run: The route to death mountain, beating the crap out of Gooma, literally everything about palace 6 and you toying with those orange skulls in several of the rooms of the Great palace, just to name a few.
Thanks, Arc. Yes vote.
Good work, looking forward to the run.
I'd argue for skipping exhibition in a fastest time run, as they are not necessary for completing the game. This is any% after all, right?
A highest score run (would need to be moonable) should include them however. This would also make the two categories more different, increasing the chance of acceptance. (Are you considering doing such a run as well?)
Wonderful. I'll get it cleaned up and redo the Great Palace. I'm making rapid progress in the warps movie as well so that I can submit both movies simultaneously. Assuming no unexpected surprises, give me maybe a week.
Dear god, I may be the most nonbelieving atheist on earth, but if you do exist and have fatal plans for me, pleeeeeeeeeease let me live just another week!
DrD2k9, no need to apologize. I discontinued my run because I felt I needed to attempt a goal I was not interested in making, and I got bored examining the optimal RNG for the fencing. And I too did not find this thread when I searched for it. Does an amp in the subject bug the search engine?
I will however restate my feedback on your cancelled run (which I found entertaining), in case you missed it when you cancelled:
I have a minor problem with the goal: Gold medals. Isn't it so, that you can get gold without maxing the score on triple jump, hammer throw, pole vault and archery where you would be able to save time by ending the events earlier on a lower score? If not, then I apologize. But if so, then I'd rather like to see the (in my opinion) more well-defined goal of maximum score, qualifying as soon as possible on day 1-4, then showcasing getting max score on day 5-8. (And finishing with both exhibition events would be a nice touch too.)
Also, isn't it faster to jump up and land on top of the hurdles in Hurdles and jump again from them across the water, than jumping as close to the hurdles as possible?
I have a minor problem with the goal: Gold medals. Isn't it so, that you can get gold without maxing the score on triple jump, hammer throw, pole vault and archery where you would be able to save time by ending the events earlier on a lower score? If not, then I apologize. But if so, then I'd rather like to see the (in my opinion) more well-defined goal of maximum score, qualifying as soon as possible on day 1-4, then showcasing getting max score on day 5-8. (And finishing with both exhibition events would be a nice touch too.)
Also, isn't it faster to jump up and land on top of the hurdles in Hurdles and jump again from them across the water, than jumping as close to the hurdles as possible?
Regardless, I was entertained by this. Good work. Yes vote.
I, too, thought this was a great hack when I played it about a year ago. I started on v1.0, but because of severe bugs I started over on 1.11, a much more polished version. The way I see it, 1.0 is more of a beta release, while 1.11 is the final product. Thus, I fully support using 1.11 for a TAS.
Also, great improvement! Yes vote.
Re-posting a question I asked in the workbench forum for submission 5236, in hope that this thread gets read by someone who knows the answer:
Since each dungeon belongs to an "internal map" with other dungeons (1-6 and 7-9), if a way to screen-wrap in dungeons was discovered:
a) Would it be possible to warp from one dungeon to another one?
b) Would the other dungeon's enemies, movable blocks, doors, item(s), triforce etc be loaded?
c) What would be the effect of collecting the other dungeon's item(s) and triforce? Where would Link exit to after collecting the triforce?
d) Would the other dungeon's exit be loaded and usable? Where would it lead?
That about sums it up. Thank you for making this TAS, it is brilliant in so many ways.
I'd also like to suggest a "Submission text of the year" category for the yearly TASvideos awards, and take the opportunity to be the first to nominate this one. (And I'm serious, why don' we have that category?)
Great TAS, Lord Tom, very impressive indeed.
I have a question:
Why does screen-wrapping not work in dungeons? If a way to do it would be discovered, since a group of dungeons all belong to the same "internal map" (1-6 and 7-9), would it be possible to warp from one dungeon to another? Would the other dungeons item(s) and triforce be loaded and what would be the effect of collecting them? Would the other dungeons exit be loaded and usable?
Why would you want to arbitrarily take out the interesting time-saving tricks that require strategic planning in favor of more walking? Less entertaining, less technical skill. It goes against the nature of TASing.
Two reasons:
1) As I stated, to make the branches more different.
2) Because the "no warps" branch has at least 4 types of warps in it (listed in my post above).
What you refer to as "interesting time-saving tricks" should not be defended against arbitrarily being taken OUT, they should instead be motivated (legacy reasons aside) for currently being arbitrarily taken IN.
I just want to question this in order to see good motivation for keeping them, precisely because they may be considered to be "WARP glitches" in a "NO WARPS" run.
Also, a longer run showing more of the game is not necessarily less entertaining.
(And no, my personal opinion is not to disallow any of them, but for the wrong reason (them being cool).)
So I know this wont be a popular opinion, but I thought I'd at least state it for you magic people (TASers) to consider:
I know the "no warps" branch already exists (and is frankly fucking awesome), but with the new "warps" branch being created (and depending on its actual outcome), I think that some "legacy rules" of the "no warps" branch for a hypothetical FUTURE improvement MIGHT be worth considering in order to differentiate the runs more from one another, even if it means that an improvement is slower. Here is an incomplete list, not necessarily reflecting my own opinions:
1) Disallow using the roof for "visual" wrong warps (palace 4 and the "dead end" room of the 7th palace).
2) Disallow using map enemies to skip mandatory encounter tiles.
3) Disallow using fairy to skip doors.
4) Disallow using Up+A warps.
My opinion is that my opinion does not matter, but that yours (actual TASers) do.
EDIT: Clarified branch names as per Samsara's comment below.
Yes vote. Congratulations on making the best TAS thus far this year, and a huge thank you for your huge effort. It shows.
It'd be nice to see a screen-by-screen comparison video, if someone who reads this knows how to make those.