Posts for Lobsterzelda


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Lobsterzelda
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Joined: 3/17/2019
Posts: 280
Nice movie! My favorite part was the combo against Zelda in Hyrule. This gets a clear yes vote from me.
Post subject: Battletoads Progress!
Lobsterzelda
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Joined: 3/17/2019
Posts: 280
Hello everyone! After a long break from TASing to focus on school work, I have finally had some time to return to working on my Battletoads 2 players warpless TAS. I am happy to announce that I have finished TASing levels 9 and 10, and have also TASed up until the boss fight at the end of level 11 (level 10 and all of level 11 except the boss battle are the same in this TAS as they are in the 2 player warps TAS). With that, here are my timesaves: Level 9: This was by far the longest and most complicated level to TAS of the game. Ultimately, most of my timesaves throughout this level depended on me finding lag-reduction strategies, although a few timesaves were from better movement as compared to the 2 players warps TAS. This level contains 4 checkpoints followed by the end of the level. The destruction of certain walls by the rolling gears while crossing a certain boundary point alive with a toad activates each of the 4 checkpoints. However, any of the walls that are destroyed without a bonus number appearing on screen are not checkpoints. The only reason I have to wait for the gears to destroy these walls is that the next gear won't spawn if I don't wait for the previous wall to be destroyed. Additionally, the gears won't load if you skip a checkpoint, and the end of level can't be activated without activating all checkpoints, so you can't skip any checkpoints in this level either. In the section up until the first checkpoint, I saved about 60 frames over the 2 player warps TAS by taking a different route through the out of bounds water which had much less lag. The section between the first checkpoint and the second checkpoint is mostly waiting for the gears to move. However, compared to my first WIP of this category, I was able to save about 14 frames in this section by doing different inputs at different times to completely eliminate all lag from this section. Also, I used my downtime in this section to shift the Toads' Z-Position to prepare for the next section without wasting time. In the section between the second and third checkpoints, I saved about 60 frames by shifting the z-position of my toads more so that one toad could get more of a head start on swimming while waiting for the last gear to break and activate the checkpoint (part of this timesave also occurred via better lag reduction as well). In the section between the third and the fourth checkpoints, I saved about 40 frames by timing the death of the first toad so that the toad respawns on the same frame that the checkpoint was activated (the 2 player warps TAS wastes about 20 frames here waiting for the toad to respawn since it kills the toad 20 frames later than it needs to). I was also able to use lag reduction to save the remaining 20 frames of this segment. In the section between the fourth checkpoint and the end of the level, I was able to save 6 frames via slightly better lag reduction over the 2 player warps TAS. All told, I finished level nine 194 frames faster than the published 2 players warps TAS (over 3 seconds)! The same strategies that work in level 9 of my TAS would work in level 9 of the 2 player warps TAS. As such, considering that there is also a 3 second timesave in the 2 player warps TAS due to the void jump trick in level 3, the current 2 player warps TAS could be improved by at least 6 seconds, which means that the TAS can finish in under 11 minutes. Level 10: Identical to the 2 player warps TAS. Level 11: The section up until the boss is a copy of the 2 player warps TAS, since this is basically an autoscroller. This WIP ends when the autoscroller section finishes. We are nearing the finish line of this TAS! The published movie has stood unchallenged for 15 years, but it won't be long now until I am ready to submit the new movie for this category! Here is a link to my WIP, for anyone who is interested in watching it: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/63003180390649610 I hope you enjoy watching it!
Lobsterzelda
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Spikestuff wrote:
I didn't jump or punch if you want to know how I saved almost 30 frames, and yes that kills the 3 enemies.
Based on that, I'm assuming that sub 22 is likely possible, yes?
Lobsterzelda
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Somebody... Somewhere... Sat down and wrote out the code for each frame of animation for Simba hanging himself... The only thing this makes me wonder, is why?
Lobsterzelda
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Hello everyone. I have finally finished the first 8 levels in my Battletoads 2 players warpless TAS. Alyosha's WIP ended in level 8, so I can now compare how fast my movie was compared to his. In total, I ended up finishing exactly 420 frames faster than Alyosha, which means that my current WIP is faster by 7 seconds! I've already summarized earlier ITT where I saved time in levels 1-4, so I won't repeat that description here. However, I managed to save more time in levels 5 and 6 (which I went back to redo), and also in levels 7 and 8. As such, I will list those timesaves here: Level 5: I saved 20 frames in this level by using player 2 to fall out of bounds instead of player 1, and by falling out of bounds slightly faster as well. The reason why player 2 was faster is that you start the level with player 2 being slightly closer to the surfboards than player 1. Level 6 Even though this level is mostly an autoscroller, I was surprisingly able to save 101 frames in this level. The reason for this is that jumping at particular times to scroll the screen makes the snakes turn their heads slightly faster/sooner, which allows for a few frames to be saved on each snake. This adds up over the course of all snakes throughout the level, which ultimately allowed for a relatively large timesave. Level 7 I saved 99 frames in this level compared to Alyosha's WIP. Some of this timesave came from the first half of the level before the flying section, by killing enemies slightly faster and by having one toad do 2 mid-air punches to kill the 2 rats while the other toad runs to the right edge of the screen so that the screen can be scrolled slightly sooner. Additionally, I saved time in the flying section by keeping as far to the right as possible for every checkpoint except for the last one. On the last checkpoint, I kept as far to the left as possible, and since the screen scrolls faster before you hit the checkpoint, I was able to save about 30 frames on this last checkpoint alone! Also, I embedded a secret message in the middle of level 7. See if you can find it! :) Level 8: Up to Robomanus, this fight is a copy of Alyosha's WIP, so no time is gained or lost. Alyosha's WIP desyncs during the Robomanus fight, so this marks the last point that I can compare my WIP with Alyosha's WIP. The start of the Robomanus fight occurs 420 frames faster in my WIP compared to Alyosha. In the Robomanus fight, I finished 11 frames faster than the fight I did in my original WIP of the game, and I also finished 39 frames faster than the 2 player warps TAS did, since I had faster attacks and didn't perform the speed-entertainment tradeoff of getting squashed by the boss after he is killed. Next up, I have to TAS the longest and most difficult-to-TAS level of the game: the Terra Tubes! Wish me luck! Here is a link to my WIP: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/62355587629478395
Lobsterzelda
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Koh1fds wrote:
Idea is... Maybe, you can keep that state (when green toad holds nothing) to the end of the stage and get a state when robomanus gets attached to the green toad (maybe even before it properly spawns). And maybe when robomanus just spawns he have like 1 hp or something (happens in many other games) and maybe you can trow him and get some crazy quick kill. Just an idea. Nothing of that was tested
It's an interesting idea. How exactly do you get the toad into this state, though (what inputs/conditions do you need)? Btw, on an unrelated note, did anybody ever figure out if it's possible to spawn the warp portal in the turbo tunnel instead of the level end object in order to improve the current 2 player warps TAS? The question was asked about 9 years ago in this thread, but I couldn't find the answer ITT. As an aside, I went back and redid levels 5 and 6, and saved almost 2 seconds combined between the 2 levels. Now I have to redo level 7 (which I already did). Once I finish level 8, i'll post an updated WIP to userfiles.
Lobsterzelda
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Posts: 280
moozooh wrote:
Big post update and some good (?) news. If there are any gamers™ among you, or just people with beefy computers and not much to do with them, I've just set up a TASVideos Folding@Home team, of which I am currently the sole member. If you feel the quarantines and lockdowns have deprived the planet of some major global warming contribution, you can help heat it back up while doing some protein simulations that may or may not help understand the virus and develop cures. More info in the opening post.
My laptop's kind of on it's last legs now, so I doubt I would be able to do that...
Lobsterzelda
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I have a question for anybody who is familiar with the mechanics of Battletoads about animation cancelling. What prompted my interest in this topic was this video from earlier ITT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02RkubLfOwE&feature=emb_title My question is: What are the ways to cancel the animation of the toad having their jaw drop open in shock when a boss appears? On the first level boss, I tried shooting one toad with a laser such that the laser hits the toad after their jaw drops from seeing the boss. While this does stop the jaw-dropping animation while they are stunned, they return to the jaw-dropped frozen mode as soon as the stun lock wears off, so this doesn't give you control back to your toad. I have a theory for a way to save a lot of time in one specific part of the game, but this can only work if there is a way to perform an animation cancel (using 2 players) in a very specific part of the game to skip the jaw-dropping animation. I'm guessing it's not possible, or somebody else would have made a TAS using this idea by now, but hey, you never know? EDIT: So, it looks like the big timesave I had in mind is impossible regardless of whether or not there's a way to cancel this animation. However, I can still think of a way to save about 6 seconds somewhere else if there's a way to do this.
Lobsterzelda
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So, I finally have another update on my 2 player warpless TAS of Battletoads: I've finished the first 6 levels of the game now. The first 3 levels are the same as listed earlier in the thread. Additionally, I saved 29 frames combined in levels 4-6 compared to the WIP made by Alyosha. Timesaves: Level 4: I saved 20 frames over Alyosha's run by killing the second player as I was heading towards the last checkpoint. This reduced lag by a lot, which in turn allowed for me to save all of this time. Level 5: I used a faster run pattern to start the level running quicker (which was pointed out to me by AIVV73) and had faster movement overall, which allowed me to save 9 frames here. Level 6: This is an exact copy of Alyosha's WIP, which resynced perfectly without me needing to make any adjustments. As such, I beat level 6 in the same amount of frames that it took Alyosha to beat level 6. And with that, I'm now halfway through this TAS. I'm hoping that I can make progress faster now that I'm out of level 4, where I've basically been stuck for the last month and a half. In the meantime, if anyone wants to take a crack at improving the levels I've already done so far, they're certainly welcome to do so. I'm not sure whether or not there's any time that can be saved in levels 5 and 6, but level 4 probably has 2-4 frames that could be saved somewhere by either better lag management or tighter movement through the sections of the level where the graphics are distorted. Either way, I couldn't figure out a faster way to do those sections, so if anyone else wants to, they can be my guest! Link to movie file of my WIP: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/62091469528092252
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
What trick
Clipping through walls instead of destroying them with the snowballs, like can be seen at 1:41 in this encode from the 2 players warps TAS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0elZ7VCYnEY EDIT: So, I got the answer to my question in discord. As it turns out, me and Feos were talking about 2 different things. In level 4, objects in an area are triggered to spawn when the camera hits certain key spots. The end of level warp portal is one of these objects. Since this doesn't require all checkpoints to be hit (only the camera has to move to certain key spots), in the 2 players warps TAS, one of the checkpoints is skipped. To reach the end of the level (without using warps), all previous checkpoints from the level must be activated. As such, in a 2 player warpless TAS, you cannot skip any of the checkpoints. This answers my questions.
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
It lags.
hmmm... I guess in that case, my last question is, if this creates a lot of extra lag, why did the 2 player warps TAS choose to do the trick in one spot, whereas the 1 player warpless tas didn't skip activating any of the checkpoints?
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
To spawn objects you need to go through certain points in the level. It's written in game code which camera position spawns which objects, and it's consecutive, you can't skip those portions. If you skip them they stop spawning. The warp is spawned along with all the other objects of that area. Object spawns don't depend on checkpoint activation. Still nothing?
In that case, if camera position is the only thing that makes objects spawn, then why can't you just clip through every checkpoint to save time instead of waiting for the walls to be destroyed by throwing snowballs at them or throwing ice blocks at them?
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
feos wrote:
The warp only appears if you make all the objects of that area spawn, which requires spawning all the previous areas objects. Post #429623
I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what you're talking about. Could you elaborate?
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
Checkpoint activation has a distinguishable sound effect.
In that case, it looks like your 2 player warps TAS skips 1 checkpoint and stops to hit an earlier one. Why?
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
Are you 100% sure you don't feel like actually trying both and maybe accidentally finding a new glitch like I did?
If I could see the ground/ figure out where I was on the map, then I would be happy to. However, due to the messed up graphics, I'm pretty much playing blind. I just want to know if the 2 player warps TAS was able to skip the checkpoint seen at 1:41, or if it activated it without me realizing. Also, if it could skip that checkpoint, then why couldn't it skip the checkpoint at 1:23 as well?
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
If it saves time, sure.
I meant if I go through the wall in exactly the same manner seen in the 2 player TAS there, will the checkpoint activate?
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
You can skip all you want as long as you activate all checkpoints.
Well, I guess to be more specific, should I clip through the wall in my TAS similar to what the 2 player warps TAS does?
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
The warp only appears if you make all the objects of that area spawn, which requires spawning all the previous areas objects. Post #429623 The coordinates don't help you make sure some input is optimal in this game, only trial and error does.
So... does that mean that you can skip through the wall in a 2 player warpless TAS?
Lobsterzelda
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My question is, why does the 1 player TAS activate this checkpoint while the 2 player warps TAS goes right through the wall? Does the TAS not need to activate the checkpoint since the level warp portal still exists even before all checkpoints are activated? With regards to my second question, what are the coordinates that you are trying to match in order to clip quickly. i.e., does initial x position or z position determine where the fastest clip point is, and what are the minimum conditions needed to clip to the floor below?
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
All of this is answered by the 1p warpless movie and its submission text.
The submission text did not answer either of my questions...
Lobsterzelda
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So I'm pretty close to finishing up with level 4. However, I have some questions about how things work in this level. Namely, is the checkpoint skip seen at 1:41 in the 2 player warps TAS usable in the warpless TAS? Or does this skip prevent the level end from loading? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_231wO_OCs&feature=emb_title Additionally, going back to 1:41 in the encode above again, how exactly does the clip into the floor work? I get that it's based on pressing L+R simultaneously to alter your toad's walk plane position or whatever it's called, but what position are you aiming for, and where does this put you on the map?
Lobsterzelda
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SonicFan53 wrote:
I really need to take my time... Sorry. I like to go fast, like Sonic.
Ironically, by going slowly and taking your time to make a more optimized movie, your final submission itself would be faster... like Sonic.
Lobsterzelda
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SonicFan53 wrote:
Ok. (I swear, every little thing I do causes something bad. D:)
Out of curiosity, how old are you? Mod edit: Take this to private messages if you need to. This thread is for discussing the TAS submission, not the author. — moozooh
Lobsterzelda
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Spikestuff wrote:
Lobsterzelda wrote:
As you can see, this movie is over 2 seconds slower than the rejected movie, which itself was rejected due to poor optimization.
If you Spiked the ending input to have a jump instead it's 4 frames slower not 2 whole seconds. This isn't an improvement in any ways since it's still slower but it is a far cry from 2 seconds. And then you add 23 frames and realize it's 27 frames slower.
Are you using timing from power-on to last input?
Lobsterzelda
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Actually, as it turns out, I didn't even need to try improving this TAS to prove that it could be more than a second faster. I uploaded a copy of this TAS with the blank input frames at the end removed here: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/61638793966706215 As you can see, this movie is over 2 seconds slower than the rejected movie, which itself was rejected due to poor optimization. Please make sure that your TAS beats all known existing records BEFORE you submit it to the workbench. Otherwise, you just end up wasting the judges' time and the time of any viewers who vote on your movie.
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