Posts for Lobsterzelda


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Lobsterzelda
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I wonder if somebody will ever make an optimized TAS of this game that can be published? As an aside, is better timing of jumps able to allow you to get any further in the game, or is the max score in this submission still the best that anyone can do?
Lobsterzelda
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DrD2k9 wrote:
Lobsterzelda wrote:
I would also like to clarify why I have a separate question for entertainment and what tier a movie belongs in, since some may think that this is redundant. With certain movies, a user may not find them to be personally entertaining, but may still be so impressed by the TAS (or entertained with the background work that went into making the TAS) that the user may want the movie to be in moons or stars tier despite not being particularly entertained by watching the TAS.
The reason most would consider your latter two questions redundant is because, the very difference between vault and moon tier is based on entertainment....not impressiveness of the TAS technical level.
While what you're saying is technically true, the way that people vote might not always reflect the way that the tiers are set up. Having different options to clarify what people really think about the movies makes the most sense, since this would remove any ambiguity. Like I said, some of the people who voted in the SMB 3 TAS thought that the run should go in moons, despite not being entertained by the TAS itself. Bearing that in mind, its worth considering if there's other runs on the site that people have voted "yes" to the site question for because they believed that the movie should be in moons (despite not being very entertaining).
Lobsterzelda
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I agree that the workbench poll really should be split up into at least 2 questions. There are a lot of times where I see a run on the workbench which is pretty boring for me to actually watch, but is extremely optimized and a good example of TASing. However, by convention I vote yes on the workbench poll for these, even though I'm not very entertained by them. Even if I believe that the quality of a run lends itself to publication in moons or vault tier, that doesn't necessarily mean that I found the run very entertaining. Even for movies of popular games which get accepted into moons, I still sometimes run into the issue of not wanting to vote no because I think that the movie should be published (but I don't necessarily find it entertaining). On the other hand, there are also occasionally runs submitted to the workbench which have some unoptimal or sloppy parts that should prevent them from being published. However, when I watch the movie itself, I am entertained by it anyway. However, I feel obliged to vote no on the workbench poll, because me voting yes would imply to some that I believe that the movie is optimized enough that it should be published, when in reality, all I want to say is that I was entertained by watching the movie. I would actually go one step further than what DrD2k9 purposed and say that the workbench poll should be broken down into 3 smaller questions, which are as follows: 1. Do you believe that this movie should be published? a. Yes b. No c. I'm not sure 2. (A question that only appears if the user answers yes to the first question) What tier do you feel that this movie belongs in? a. Vault b. Moons c. Stars d. I'm not sure. 3. Were you entertained by the movie? a. Yes b. No. c. Meh. This would generate an unambiguous assessment of how entertaining users find movies on the workbench and how strongly users feel that a given movie is optimized or entertaining enough to deserve being published. Thus, all of the ambiguity of the current system could be easily ended. I would also like to clarify why I have a separate question for entertainment and what tier a movie belongs in, since some may think that this is redundant. With certain movies, a user may not find them to be personally entertaining, but may still be so impressed by the TAS (or entertained with the background work that went into making the TAS) that the user may want the movie to be in moons or stars tier despite not being particularly entertained by watching the TAS. A good example of this that came up recently was the Super Mario Brothers 3 TAS that was just published. Some people thought that the background work that went into the TAS was so impressive that the movie deserved a spot in either moons or stars tier, despite not finding the run itself entertaining. Changing the workbench poll would allow users to express these opinions in a clearer and more nuanced manner, which would allow the person judging the submission to better understand how exactly the audience has reacted to the movie. After that, the judge could use their experience and knowledge of the rules of the website and the quality of the movie to decide what should best be done with the movie given the audience's perception of the movie.
Lobsterzelda
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Arc wrote:
There are 2138 published movies currently. Most people have seen only a small fraction of them. They want certain movies they've seen to be Stars, but they overlook all the movies that they haven't seen. I'd think that being the only person who has seen every movie would give me some credibility. The selection of Stars needs to take a holistic approach. There are many, many older movies worthy of at least being nominated.
Wait a minute... you've seen all 2138 published TASes on the website? 0_o That's pretty impressive. With regards to extremely long RPG TASes, do you basically dedicate a 5 hour timeblock to watch them, or do you watch it in pieces over time? Also, in your subjective opinion, which TAS stands out as having the least entertainment value of any TAS on the website? I'd be curious if some other old veteran of the site who joined in 2004 has also seen every currently published TAS on the site, though I suppose there's no way I can get a definitive answer to that question...
Lobsterzelda
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Spikestuff wrote:
I've also compared with the submission that's here, and not the video as a note. Even if IGT is not the focus, it's still usable enough to do comparisons such as these.
In terms of total frame count minus lag frames, how does this TAS compare to the 2010 submission?
Lobsterzelda
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Spikestuff wrote:
Did you know? That instead of using the actual IGT you can use the value related to the IGT 0x436. Since this TAS focuses on IGT apparently. Let's grab a table up to compare to the previous.
The TAS that Mazzin submitted here is supposed to focus on fastest real-time (from power on to last input to kill Dracula). The fastest IGT video was for a different TAS on his channel. I've updated the link in my earlier post to reflect this.
Lobsterzelda
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Mazzin wrote:
did you even read the video name or look at the thumbnail? it clearly states ingame time and not real time... i was obviously refering to the video that matches my submission file: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvLYA-e2Wek
Well excuse me for not being able to find the link to the encode of your TAS that you made over a month before submitting your movie to TASVideos which you also uploaded at the same time as another TAS of the same game... -_- For future reference, you can edit your original submission text to include a link to your video. Doing so helps drive up interest in your submission, as people are less interested in downloading a Castlevania ROM and watching the run play back in real time for 20 minutes than they are watching a video online of the TAS which allows them to skip through autoscroller sections as they please.
Lobsterzelda
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Anyways, I don't know if this is the video that Mazzin was referring to, but this is a link to an encode of A TAS of Castlevania on the Game Boy on his channel: Link to video Edit: edited to include the link to the correct video of this TAS.
Post subject: Re: RNG issues
Lobsterzelda
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Mazzin wrote:
however, i decided to take that trade off to showcase a more optimal run up until that boss fight (which is very boring to watch anyway), so i would say it is either just innevitable, because the global timer just hits an unfavourable value or it can be treated as entertainment trade off to show better movement before the boss. also there is no perfect run anyway, what do you expect
That's not how it works. To be considered a speed vs. entertainment tradeoff, you have to compromise fastest time for something which is more entertaining. However, in your case, having 5 frames faster movement followed by an extra second and a half of waiting at the boss fight is much less entertaining than waiting 5 frames before starting the boss fight and hitting the boss immediately as the fight starts. It's important to keep this in mind when making a TAS, especially one which is intended to go into the vault (which discourages speed vs. entertainment tradeoffs). If this run was accepted to the vault, then somebody could immediately obsolete it by just getting better RNG on the boss fight and then re-syncing the rest of your movie after that. You wouldn't want your hard work to go to waste - so if you're interested in seeing your movie published, you should probably check if some combination of delaying your movement or pressing different buttons before the boss fight can change which hole the boss spawns out of in order to be sure that your run is truly optimal.
Post subject: Re: just wanna test this button^^
Lobsterzelda
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Mazzin wrote:
i already sent it in pm, but GBC version cannot be compared to GB version, since GBC runs way faster than GB sorry for repeating myself ps: the 18:07~ min run that is submitted here, is the fastest that could be compared to my submission here, so i think i can argue that my time (17:41~) is faster by a large margin
Is GBC so much faster than GB that it really saves over 5 minutes in a 20 minute run? Hopefully, somebody will provide a temp encode so that this run can be watched to see how optimized it is in terms of movement and lag reduction.
Lobsterzelda
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I never thought I'd see the day when a TI-83 TAS would be published on TASVideos. Could this TAS be the first one? Yes vote for demonstrating a new and interesting way of TASing.
Lobsterzelda
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Dimon12321 wrote:
No link on an improved movie? Ok, I'll past it: User movie #57552889267614864
Here are the first two lines of my post from earlier:
Lobsterzelda wrote:
Ok. After several weeks of research and testing, I've finally finished making my improvements to the TAS currently on the workbench. My new TAS of The Lion King for the NES can be found here: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/57552889267614864
Lobsterzelda
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Ok. After several weeks of research and testing, I've finally finished making my improvements to the TAS currently on the workbench. My new TAS of The Lion King for the NES can be found here: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/57552889267614864 FCEUX can't record AVIs on my computer, so since I can't provide an encode here, i'll summarize the improvements in this TAS for anybody who doesn't want to bother watching this in an emulator: Improvements for Each Level: 1. Level 1 is the same speed as it was in my original TAS. In all the new submissions i've made of this game, I still haven't found any timesaves in this level. 2. Level 2 saves about 20-30 frames using strategies that I discovered from TASing the gameboy version of the game. Namely, it jumps over the first Rhino's tail in the section with three rhinos in a row, which saves some time. This added time save allows me to use the next rhino's tail as a faster way of getting boosted up to the monkey, which saves even more time. 3. In this level, I use the bones that Simba can swing from to save time over rolling on the ground. Additionally, I manipulate the vultures even faster than I did before, allowing me to do a quicker double vulture boost. This all saves about 15-30 frames overall. 4. This level is an autoscroller. No timesave to be found here... 5. This level had a lot of small timesaves scattered throughout it. Most of them involved rolling in the last few sections of the level instead of jumping, since rolls are faster than jumps in this game. Additionally, I jumped at a certain drop instead of falling, since this lets you redirect your speed, which allowed me to move to the right while falling and save about 10 frames. All in all, I saved somewhere between 25 and 35 frames in this level. 6. The first 5 levels took me about a day or two to TAS. This level is what I've been stuck on for the last month. I saved 6 frames in the beginning of the level by improving my movement slightly, and everything seemed to be going well. After that, I reached the waterfall... The main issue with the waterfall is that the logs that fall down spawn based on a global timer. In my old TAS, I got essentially the fastest log pattern possible, with it only taking 380 frames to climb the waterfall (for comparison, in all of my other TASes of the game, it took me around 440 frames to climb the waterfall). No matter what I did, I kept finishing the waterfall section in about 480 frames, which was slow enough that I was tied with my original TAS when I finished the waterfall section. I had to find a better way to manipulate the logs in my favor. And so, I set about to figure out the basics of how the log's work. I'm not the best at deciphering assembly language functions, but I did make some basic discoveries based on my analysis: 1. The number of frames since power on is stored in addresses 0x560 - 0x561. If you use a hex editor to alter either of these values, it changes the pattern of the logs that you get. 2. The actual y-coordinates of the logs themselves are stored in 5 addresses from 0x665 - 0x669 3. There are only 5 possible x-coordinates that the logs can have 4. All new logs load from the top of the screen, and move downwards to the bottom of the screen. When all 5 logs have loaded, if you go up high enough, you can see an earlier log higher up (since the logs only store the least significant byte of their y-position, which wraps around when you reach the next byte of the y-position). However, if all 5 logs are in the center of the screen, one of them most reach the bottom of the screen before another log can load. 5. When a log is loaded, it's y-position is set equal to the value stored in address 0x536 minus 16 (base 10 number). 6. The value stored in 0x536 increases while you are jumping up and decreases while you are falling down. Additionally, if you jump to a different platform with a different y-position, it can change the value stored in 0x536. 7. The moment when a log is loaded is determined by 2 things: it must first be possible to load a log (all 5 can't already be on screen), and if that is the case, then the value in address 0x57D must count down to 0 before the log can load. 0x57D is usually set to 0, but at certain points, (probably based on the global frame number) it gets set to 5 or 15. From there, it counts down by 1 every 3 frames. When it hits 0, the next time you move upwards a new log will load. My main goal in finding a way to manipulate the log's pattern was to find a way to alter the value stored in address 0x57D. However, I couldn't find a consistent way to do that, so I was left with using trial and error to do the best that I could. Eventually I was able to get up the waterfall in 445 frames, which is the final value it has in this new TAS. Adding up all the timesaves and timelosses, this run finished about 0.4 seconds faster than my original submission. If anybody wants to try to improve this time, here are 3 places that could potentially be optimized to save time: 1. The waterfall. 2. The waterfall. 3. The waterfall. The waterfall probably has about 1 more second of possible timesave available for somebody who figures out how to precisely manipulate where the logs spawn. Other than that, I'm fairly content with this new TAS, and am requesting that this submission be set back to judging underway, and that my new TAS replace my original submission.
Lobsterzelda
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So, I finally finished creating my improved TAS of The Lion King for Gameboy. This new TAS uses the strategies used by TASEditor in his WIP, along with some new strategies that I found in order to beat the game in 9 minutes and 19 seconds. I've uploaded this movie to the userfiles here: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/57292202188512104 I'm hoping that one of the judges can replace my original submission with this userfile movie.
Lobsterzelda
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In light of the improvements discovered by TASEditor in the Gameboy version of The Lion King, I would like to request that this submission be set to delayed so that I have time to see if these timesaves work in the NES version of the game. After I finish with the Gameboy TAS (which should be happening very soon), I plan to get back to checking this TAS.
Post subject: Playing Back Input Files in Stella
Lobsterzelda
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Hi everybody. I have been experimenting with the Stella emulator to see if I could get it to play back Atari 2600 TASes on it. I have been able to create a program that has Stella run the inputs from a TAS made in BizHawk. However, there is one issue with this. When I run the same movie back, the results I get are different each time. For example, in the game Pitfall!, the TAS hits the log on the first screen (as a result of the TAS being made in BizHawk and not synced to Stella). How many points you lose depends on how long you are touching the log for. However, every time I reset Stella and run the input file back, I lose a different number of points from the log: sometimes I lose 8, sometimes I lose 12, sometimes I lose 9 etc. Does anybody know why this might be happening? I assume it's due to differences in memory initialization, so if somebody knows how BizHawk initializes Atari 2600 games' memory, it would help me figure out a way to get Stella to consistently play back an input file. Thanks for any help that y'all can provide!
Lobsterzelda
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TASeditor wrote:
You landed the first attack on the hyeana in first level after 1548 frames counted from level start, I did in 1521 frames. WIP from 2018: User movie #45830007688951778
Based on this, I've gone back and made some edits to the earlier levels so that I can implement any timesaves this WIP has that my movie doesn't have.
Lobsterzelda
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Fencypo wrote:
So I compared this run to the NES submission, and while the NES submission is faster at times (and has a little skip), I personally enjoyed the GB version more; better graphics, closer up so it's easy to see what's happening, more levels. With more levels comes a proper ending, and the ending for the GB version is much more satisfying than that of the NES version. I don't know what the rules are for two very similar games, but in my opinion I think this TAS should obsolete the NES TAS. Good job on both TASes, though!
I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the TAS. Personally, I believe that this movie should be published without obsoleting the NES TAS of this game. The reason why is that the NES and Gameboy versions of the game have slightly different level layouts for levels 3 and 6 of the game. Additionally, the lack of the "stunned from falling" feature in the NES version of the game makes the game's mechanics different from the Gameboy version. The other reason is that certain glitches and skips only work in one game or the other. For example, at the start of level 2 in the Gameboy version, I can skip the first monkey, even though this is not possible in the NES version of the game. Additionally, midway through level 3 in the NES version, I perform the double vulture boost to skip a large section of level 3, which isn't possible in the Gameboy version of the game. Lastly, The Lion King for the NES was the last officially released game for the NES, so I think that this place in history renders it relevant enough that it should have a spot in the vault of NES TASes. However, since the Gameboy version is more entertaining, longer, and is a better put together game, I believe that it should be published as well. Thus, I believe that both movies should be published on the site, without one replacing the other.
Lobsterzelda
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feos wrote:
Guys please post feedback and vote for this movie. Is it entertaining to watch several loops of this game with slightly increasing pace, with this kind of music and visuals, for 20 minutes?
It's not a very entertaining game to watch, though that's a result of the game's developers rather than any issues with this TAS itself. Would this game be acceptable to the vault? It doesn't seem to have a definitive ending like most vault-able TASes, or an absolute maximum high score. Instead, the TAS gets the highest score it can get before game overing, without reaching the maximum score that the game can store. If this is an acceptable choice for the vault, then I would assume that there needs to be a definitive way to prove that it's impossible to get past the stage that the author dies in in his movie. This would be more difficult to establish than a game like Pacman, which has a definitive kill screen that makes it impossible to progress to the next level. To me, it seems kind of arbitrary to consider this to be a complete TAS, since it's possible that somebody could discover a new glitch that lets them continue for 20 more loops, which would completely obsolete this despite being much longer/slower. In other words, time is less important for a high score branch like this than score, which in my opinion should prevent this from being accepted.
Lobsterzelda
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Your wish has finally been granted! I just submitted a TAS I made of The Lion King for Gameboy. Here's a link to the forum thread for my submission: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21211&postdays=0&postorder=asc&vote=viewresult&start=0
Lobsterzelda
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DrD2k9 wrote:
Lobsterzelda wrote:
This is probably one of the earliest examples of rubberbanding in video games. However, instead of using increased/more dangerous hazards like Mario Kart does, Pitfall! uses the global timer cycle for all hazards to smooth things out.
I can only assume you're considering the global timer's affect on speed of play as the rubber banding effect. While it could be perceived as a limiting factor for more skilled players, I strongly doubt that difficulty/skill balancing had anything to do with the creators' choice to use the global cycle for all the obstacles. It's much more likely that it was easier/more efficient to program obstacles on a global timer instead of having individual timers for every single room. Using this global timing mechanism to support a claim for rubber banding in Pitfall! because it limits when certain actions can happen would be similar to claiming that frame rules in SMB are a form of rubber banding because they limit when certain events can take place. Generally, rubber banding in video games refers to changes in degree of difficulty based on the player's in-game performance. In other words, on-the-fly easing of difficulty for less skilled players or on-the-fly increase of difficulty for more skilled players. A game mechanic (such as a global timer) that is static and unchanging isn't difficulty balancing (rubber banding) just because it inherently limits the extent to which a skilled player can outperform a non-skilled player; it's simply a limiting factor for all players. The global timer in Pitfall! doesn't force faster players to slow down so slower players can catch up any more than it allows slower players to speed up to catch up with the faster players. All players move at the same speed and have the same obstacles to deal with all on the same global timer. In my opinion there's no dynamic change in difficulty in this game to warrant a claim of rubber banding.
I agree that the global timer for obstacles was probably not put into the game to increase the difficulty. It was probably put in because it was easier to program, used up less memory, and made the transitions between screens more fluid. Having said that, I would argue that the cycles for each room make more of a "smoothing out effect" for how fast the game can be beat compared to something barely noticeable to a casual player, like the SMB1 framerules at the end of each level. While the individual effect of not being able to make a particular jump or get past a certain obstacle at a certain point in the global timer may only make a small time difference (like 3-5 seconds), the cumulative effect of not being able to make certain jumps adds a handicap to the player that increases over time. Basically, what I mean is that players can shave several minutes off of their time by being able to beat the global timer cycles, and if a player goes as fast as possible, they will invariably run into many points where they need to go fast through a room in order to beat the next cycle. In this sense, for both casual players and speedrunners of the game, the global timer can act as a force that makes it harder to go through the game the farther ahead of the global timer you get, which is why I would consider it a form of pseudo-rubberbanding even if it lacks overt changes in the game's obstacles with increased speed by the player.
Lobsterzelda
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EZGames69 wrote:
That’s what a BIOS does. My Saturn SotN tas wastes 10 seconds with the bios start up over the movie it obsoleted, bios time will not count against you. Now if you’re getting different results as in you cant skip past certain things like splash screens of company logos or something, run the old movie on the version of the emulator it was used on and see what inputs it’s doing. Now if it’s different patterns of enemies or something to that extent, count it as an emulator difference, it’s either from using a later version of bizhawk or from using the BIOS.
Thanks for the help. I got the rejected movie to sync in an old version of BizHawk. Also, I was able to get my movie to sync on the American release of the game (since originally I was recording on the European version of the game). Oddly enough, the run desynced on the very first porcupine of level 1 when I made the switch, but after I manually changed that jump, the run synced perfectly all the way to the end of level 3. The same thing happened to me when I was TASing the NES version of this game: I got everything to sync but had to manually redo the sections with porcupines in them. It seems almost like the game picks a random number whenever you're near the porcupines to decide if they hit you, since their hitbox extends almost twice their height and 1.5X in front of them.
Lobsterzelda
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EZGames69 wrote:
If you think that file you have is a bios file, put it into the firmware folder of bizhawk and see if it works.
I did that, and it works to play the game. However, my issue is that I can't reproduce the results of the rejected submission of this game, which seems to have a much shorter start-up sequence where "Nintendo Gameboy" appears on screen than I do.
Post subject: Gameboy BIOS
Lobsterzelda
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Hey everyone. So, I've started working on TASing a Gameboy game (for the original Gameboy). However, there is one issue that I'm running into, which is that BizHawk says that I need to download a BIOS to load the ROM, but I'm not sure what I need to download to have the "correct" version to run the game. To clarify, I'm not asking for a link to a BIOS to download, I just want to know what I should be looking for if I want to download the bios to play a North American Gameboy game. To be more specific, I am trying to make a TAS of The Lion King for the Gameboy (this is the game that the NES version is copied from). The version in the rejected submission linked here http://tasvideos.org/5386S.html seems to reach the main menu much faster than the ROM I have for the game does, and as a result, when I try to play this bk2 file back, it desyncs before it even reaches the main menu. The BIOS that I downloaded to get the game to run has the filename [BIOS] Nintendo Game Boy Boot ROM (World).gb and is 256 bytes. For reference, I have uploaded a WIP of the first three levels of the gameboy game that I made here: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/56404041904492737 Another thing which is odd is that there are 2 versions of the game's ROM I found online. One is labeled as being the USA version, though BizHawk lists it as being the European version of the game, and the other is labeled as the European version of the game, which BizHawk classifies as the USA version of the game. I'm assuming that whoever uploaded the ROM files mixed the titles up, though I'm not sure if BizHawk's region classification of the games is definitive and based on the ROM's data, or if it's inferred based on user settings. If anybody could help me figure out how to play back the other movie and how to make sure I have the right BIOS for BizHawk, I would greatly appreciate it.
Lobsterzelda
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Joined: 3/17/2019
Posts: 280
So, I did some testing using a lua script to keep track of the Coyote's position/speed and his respawn timer throughout the run. Then, I exported the results of running a TAS of the first 17 levels of the game with the script running in the background to a text file. After that, I exported the text file to a Microsoft Excel document, and produced graphs of the relevant information from that. I measured the Coyote's speed in pixels per frame, and removed the one frame where the game transitions to the next level for each level (otherwise, the speed would seem to randomly jump to an extremely high value for 1 frame). I then made a graph of this, which is viewable here: https://imgur.com/a/ieNVNpn The Coyote usually moves at either 0 or 1 pixels per frame, except while on the roller skates or his rocket ship, when he can move at 2 pixels per frame. However, this graph doesn't give an average, and also doesn't show where the Coyote is moving at 0 pixels per frame. To rectify this problem, I made a second graph. This one shows the Coyote's average speed in terms of pixels per frame for the next 128 frames from a given point in time. The graph of this can be seen here: https://imgur.com/a/4FaWPAH As you can see, the Coyote's speed doesn't change too much after the first 2 or so levels, and it moves in a cyclical pattern as you repeat each loop. It appears to me that the cycles aren't changing with each repetition through the levels, so it appears that the Coyote's speed doesn't change overall as you progress past the second loop. Finally, the last thing I wanted to check was how long it takes the Coyote to respawn after getting killed. In order to determine this, I made a graph of the values of the Coyote Respawn Timer, which can be viewed here: https://imgur.com/a/rJLnfOw The Timer always seems to follow one of two patterns after the Coyote is killed: It either counts down from 159 to 90, at which point the Coyote respawns and the timer is set back to 0, or else it counts down from 85 to 0, at which point the Coyote respawns. Whenever the Coyote is not killed, the timer generally stays put at 0. Overall, both of these patterns occur throughout the run and throughout the graph, and don't appear to change much in frequency with each successive loop through the game. As such, the Coyote doesn't seem to be respawning faster in later loops. Thus, based on my analysis, I believe that the game's difficulty doesn't change after the second loop of the game. As such, I believe that this TAS (which plays through the first 2 loops of this game) should be considered to have fully beaten the game.
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