Flying Battery has been my favourite stage in the run so far. I've followed all the WIP's just couldn't think of much to say afterwards. Although is it really necessary to do double bashes off the bouncer balls in the special stages, did you get hold of maps for all the specials and figure the best line through the stages, although don't forget you can easilly cross a mine of red balls so that complicates eveything. I'm surprised you've done it in so few re-records up till this point, but then again I don't generally take that many and I don't even pay attention to it while I'm at it. Are all these glitches in the FB replicatable as normal Sonic or is it knuckles/super/hyper specific. I knew they were these sorts of glitches in FB, and your run as a whole has cast great dount over whether Sprint's previous run is optimal. Did you definitley check to see if you zipped at the optimal speed as its easy to hold left a few frames early and start slow. I understand how that death glitch works, its a real pwnage glitch and shows what glitches are all about, it bettered my recently discovered one, (not related to Sonic) although I can't possibly tell if you optimized it because I asume that you hit the post and kill yourself, but you seem to wait for a while, isn't it possible to get crushed in someway instead of falling to the very bottom of the screen?
Good luck I hope you finish this, although it would be good if someone did a 100% run for Sonic, the shield actions for Hyper Sonic could get heavily abused in the second half of the game.
Isn't it possible to do a wall kick below the star that is obtained after the slide. I tried that a few months ago and came close but never managed to do it.
What's going on around 2:40-2:50 and 3:40-3:55, if not the same thing as during the second boss battle? That's what I'm talking about, anyway.
AKA wrote:
You're refering to mid-air wobbling, that when you hold left+right in mid air and move to the right
2:40 - 2:50 was an intentional death as Donald only has one hit point left, and I wasn't able to kill him after catapuling Mickey up to the top of the web. I use minimal and early jumps to ascend the web quickly.
3:40-3:55 this is the boss that has the long invunerabilty period, so all I could do was mess about. He becomes active above the screen i.e. can take damage. So I hit him then. its very easy to replicate that boss battle in real time as with the second one.
In the second boss battle after I've finished the last dragon. I use variations of left,frame,left,frame. This is the first time I've done it at any point in the game.
EDIT: The rope glitch is no longer active in the water level. It get cancelled as soon as the water swishes M+D after the boss battle. Shame really I spotted a few potetial uses for it.
EDIT_2: Like I said earlier I won't use mid air wobbling unless necessary from now on.
I'm all for syncro dancing. If the dancing is wobbling though, I'm not all for it. To clarify, wobbling is when you press <- one frame, -> one frame, <- one frame, etc. Or something similar. Examples that stood out was when following that spider before the first boss, and at the first boss during downtime.
Of course, if something saves time (glitching through enemies) there's no question about it. It's the unnecessary, "stylistic" wobbling I'm not all for.
You're refering to mid-air wobbling, that when you hold left+right in mid air and move to the right. I'll avoid using that unless it necessary for gameplay purposes. Infact I doubt 99.98% of people will even notice I used it in the first level because I only used it for 8 frames which was the minimal amoun to to avoid the eagle when get catapulted from the sea saw. The second boss battle is the only time I've ever used the R-R-R-. Nifboy used it a lot more than that I have up till this point.
Here's an opinion. Stop the wobbling. At least don't overdo it.
Do you mean the mid-air wobbling? just trying to verify here. I'll only use it if its nessary to glitch through an enemy e.g the eagle in the first level. Although I hope you don't mean the syncro dancing as its kind of mandatory to include it in a 2P run when you get the chance. Its unlikely the glitch you've seen will be getting used from now on as I need to take damage to save time in the next level and lose the glitch. I've checked the future levels and it definitley wouldn't save time time over not taking damage in the swimming level.
Strangely the glitch is still active in the next level although it generally has unwanted effects, which is why I do a weird sequence at the start to avoid it. If either character jumps a frame later on their second jump then they'll wrap to the left hand side of the screen. I still found a cool shortcut in the clouds. The boss battle is really screwed up though, and the nature of it made it annoying. Anyway I don't know if I should take damage in the next level becuase the glitch is lost if either character takes some form of damage, dies or even get hit by their fellow ally's cape. Opinions please
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2257/mikywrld.gmv
For the guards to permanently be there you need to have already met Zelda or activated the Ganondorf cutscene, which requires three stones, you could skip that cutscene by using 10 million bomb hovers to get up to the drawbrige and drop down into the loaded area, but when I further tested meeting Zelda with all 3 Spiritual stones (after Ganondorf has been met. Impa didn't appear after the Zelda conversation, although she should appear there if you have all 3 Spirtual stones without meeting Ganondorf. I'll test that later though Its likely that the Wold howled some time during the fadeout when Guano was climbing through the tunnel. I estimated that he had 1:22 left, but when I watches a video he only had 1:08, so the owls must cost 6-7 seconds when they fly away.
Guano, good news there is a quicker way to enter the Tower in Ganon's Castle although you still need to get the bombchu's in the Spirit chamber, because the light arrows are on B. Do you what you see in this video but with a well timed backflip and you'll be able to enter the tower. Obviously you perform the superslide the same as before but without Nayru's Love.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_AFegIKIGs
You have to see this. There is roughly 5-6 glitches performed in the last level, put a lot of effort into the last level. I fairly certain I spotted a possible 2p shortcut in the next level, although it would probally require killing the trailing character once its performed.
Here's the maximized version of that end level glitch it can be found hereupthorn wrote:
Um. In the SoR series, not only is it necessary to make both players work in sync on numerous occasions, but there are twice as many AIs to manipulate in 2P mode. I'm sure SoR series 2P is orders of magnitude more complex/difficult than any platformer, in any mode.
You've took what I've said and blown it out of proportion. The 2D scrolling beat em ups are among my favourite on the site espeacially the 2p ones. I never said there was no need to make characters work in sync on SoR games. I said its not necessary to always do it, unlike the game I'm working on now. That was the point I'm trying to make, and overall I do think SoR games are harder over in 2p mode compared to this, but for an entirely different reason, for which you just mentioned. BTW putting any in bold hardly made your argument look good, as there is some exceptionally hard 2D platformers, take the game your working on for example.
BTW Truncated I tested the higher jump when using the cape and you still face the delay when you land, so C,B is definitley the best way to take out or stun enemies on the move or a the nearest minimalist jump, you were right about jumping off the ledges when falling down more quickly, but it isn't always best to do it.
Here's another weird glitch, I've put up an Updated YouTube Video. Might be useful, I'm still working on that level, but its damm hard because all the enemies have to be dealt with in some way and not forgering frame perfect coordination, I can't explain why that glitch in the end happens, but it doesn't seem to have any use, unfortunatley every time I do the super jump glitch the birds hatch out of there eggs and hit Mickey half way up while he's climbing, so I think I'll have to take intentional damage and kill all four baby birds and start the climbing process again, this level I'm currently working on is very entertaining to watch, whether the run will be or not I don't know, but I guess I don't know that until I'm 2/3's of the way through the game. Its more complex than people give it credit for.
EDIT: Found a cool use for that glitch
EDIT_2
Feeling stuck?
[URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]
I think this a record on most heated debate on a 20 frame difference... but Guano has it all planned out, that's good and I can't wait to see the progress of this run.
Well I think this was a previous record which was an argument over 5 frames
Whats the point in using a trick that makes the game longer. I can't think of any area where a long backwalk is required because a superslide is used instead and that definitley looks entertaining to see Link frozen in a shield stance with the area's being fast forwarded. I remember watching TSA's 5:04 or Psy's current MM run and thinking how painful it was to see rolling throughout the game when backwalking could easily have been done. Forward backwalking can be done provided it doesn't waste any time to setup e.g. waiting for a chest or door to open. All the previous no and meh votes were based solely on
1. Couldn't see -
I couldn't see where Sonic was going in Sonic Advance, but I knew the game well enough to know what was being bypassed, and knew how to difficult it was to avoid deaths when Sonic's off screen.
2. Didn't use up to date tricks
This has been covered already and perhaps shows a lack of understanding with TASing and asking someone to wipe off 100's of hours of work just to use a trick that might barely save a minute.
Overall, 2 hours is the goal here and I'm on a fence as to whether it possible or not, so I'd rather see an all out time attack with no unecessary time wasted just for entertainment sake. After all isn't speed entertaining.
I don't see any value of completing or doing Forest as a child. You still need the arrows which is more awkward given the Temple was designed with Adult Link in mind.
Doesn't seem optimized in the beginning where you just hammer start. Find the correct frame and press it.
couldn't be stated either way for definite, the menu stuff was optimal though.
Truncated wrote:
Everywhere: If you jump higher for the cape swipe you won't stop when you land. You make this mistake constantly.
That is true, the pause is four frames which isn't that big a deal because there is a four frame jumping delay. Jumping higher would probally not be any quicker. The important thing when completing levels are that the trailing character must reach the end as well. I use the lead character to hit enemies so that the trailing player doesn't need to jump although I jump enemies with both character on a few ocassion because the cape can stuns the other player.
Truncated wrote:
I liked the jumping bug. How do you perform it?
I thought you might ask, it work in 1P mode as well, but its frame specific, but there is a no lose strategy if you do it late (appies to real time), I can maybe do it 1 in 5. You have to jump before the other player jumps on the high end of the see-saw and for two frames you'll be able to super jump i.e. double or triple the height of what would normally happen. Holding it for any longer than two frames gives a floaty affect that a normal jump would give you. The second time I do it I only hold jump for one frame so I didn't over do it the second time, because that is the lowest jump I could possibly get. Unfortunatley unlike Sonic I couldn't go through the walls while off screen which was a shame because in 1P mode it would save a good 30 seconds.
Truncated wrote:
1:20:08: can you jump with Mickey (instead of falling) to pass the ledge sooner?
Same thing at 1:29:10, do you have to land on the ledge first?
Glitching through the ducking section, it appears that Mickey enters first but exits last. How come? He looks immobile for a while.
After glitching through the ducking section, can you jump off the ledge instead of running and falling?
For the crawling sections where you can't glitch, I'm not sure, but it looks like you can crawl marginally faster by reastarting the crawl before it loses speed.
These are all most likely true, but I think Donald slides fractionally longer
Truncated wrote:
Getting hurt during the cart scene means you can't duck for some time, did you test not taking damage here?
Overall it's a cute game, I rented it more than once, but there are quite a few long running stretches where nothing happens. I think it's borderline.
You'd think that, but its not true Donald recovers just in time to duck again, I couldn't avoid it but I'm pretty sure it wastes time even if I was to avoid taking damage. When he first gets hurt he's going down hill and natrually loses friction for a short time.
I still have question marks over the game. 2P is fun to watch apart from the forced waits and all boss fights. Implemeting all the suggested improvements won't be easy or save as much time as you'd think. I've done the next level and will upload when I beat the boss. I'm really not sure if I should continue, not because I have any dislike towards the game but because of the spectacle.
I hope people will realise that this game is x10 harder in 2P mode, as unlike SoR series, its nessary to make them work in sync and compliment each other.
EDIT:
Done up till first boss. Still deciding whether I should actually finish it, but then again all 2P runs are cool and always get extra credit in my opinion so there is a cross roads.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2213/mikywrld.gmv
Here's the second level, I had to take a lot of intentional damage. I think killing Donald in the next level might be wise. Feedback would be nice please. Its quite scary to think that I'm nearly reached the re-record rate of the previous 1P movie.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2212/mikywrld.gmv
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2211/mikywrld.gmv
Here's the first level, it was exceptionally hard to make the characters cooperate in sync. Now
1. Did you find this enjoyable to watch
2. Should I continue, even though there might not be heavy gltich abuse abuse
3. Would this be accepted
Truncated wrote:
(I end UP activating.)
Do you have any keys bound to Alt or Ctrl to activate those emulator commands? You shouldn't use those keys for playing. Shift should be fine, I use that for frame advance since it works together with pretty much any button.
Pressing shift 5 times in a row activates some really annoying feature in Windows i.e stickykeys.
EDIT: I wonder how much time that glitch actually saved.
Incase your wondering it did appear like that in the game and wasn't a capture problem. I also remember the lens lagging a lot in PJ64, I hope this isn't the case in Mupen.
Perhaps it would make a difference if you used a PAL version of the game. I tested once with an NTSC (desyncs from the start) and then with a PAL version (no desyncs). PAL games run at 50Hz rather than 60Hz (although there is sometimes an option). So perhaps it won't be so demanding of the Mupen.
The problem being that i'm sure a few glitches (definitely the 'glitch out of clock town as Deku Link' glitch) were taken out of the PAL version. However, you may get lucky and the glitches that you use may be left in.
Using a PAL version of any game is out of the question, all the glitches so far can be done on any version.
petrie911 wrote:
It is impossible for doing Woodfall in one go to be faster. Why? Because if you do, Tatl makes that really long speech after Odolwa. She doesn't if you split the temple.
So splitting Woodfall is pretty much cemented in.
Is that the speech where you learn the OoO, you would be forced to sit through that at one point. Unless your refering to a different scene. Would that mean I'd you'd have to beat another Dungeon first. The only other dungeon that can be beaten first is GBT, but that has bottle issue problems. So how would getting the hookshot before entering the first dungeon change the route?
Well the setting I use currently is
1P
* A = H
* B = J
* C = K
* Start = Enter
* Right = RightKey
* Left = Downkey
* Up = pgup
* Down = pgdown
2p
* A = U
* B = I
* C = O
* Start = Delete
* Right = Upkey
* Left = LeftKey
* Up = Home
* Down = End
This seems to have problems when I need to press more than 5 keys at once. Now it would be useful if Right+A could made into a team key or it configuring XP into not capping the limit of keys that can be held at once, after all I'm pretty sure the OS can be changed to only allow one key to be pressed at a time.
I'm having a go at WoI to see what a 2P run looks like, but its hard as hell, as sometimes you holding seven keys at once, but often the frames won't advance or some annoying like dump to wav feature will appear, so my question is whats the best setup for 2p platformer? or just in general.
I would probally vote yes even if this game was highly unoptimized. I think the time would be somewhere around 3:30-3:45ish, while a 100% would probally take 7-8 hrs
[/URL]
