Posts for Mitjitsu

Posted: 9/28/2006 12:42 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

Currently the movie has desynced 14 times for me now and it keeps doing it after I collect the fairy in ECT. The movie runs fine from a read only savestate (not used to record from) but when I play it back from the start, it keeps desyncing by backwalking in the wrong direction. Currently trying to fet the magic and then depositing about 4 rupees in the bank and then exiting clock town to get 99 rupees from the long grass; depositing it again; repeating again to get another 99; depostit to get Adult wallet; buy bomb bag; get more rupees if I have enough time then; back flip to clock tower and quit doing this game. I would only be prepared to coninue if others pleged their alliance to doing it. I don't personally remember B+K, SM64 , or OoT desyncing at quite the rate this game does. EDIT: I discovered that when you dive into a flower you can hit Z and you can face any direction you want without turning. Also flying forwards is better that backwards because when you press A or run out of Distance the you'll go further forward. I was able to get the fairy in ECT town 5 frames earlier with this method which in this game is 0.25s faster.

Posted: 9/27/2006 8:34 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

Well here are all my settings [URL=http://imageshack.us]

[/URL] EDIT: Sorry too small will post a bigger one. EDIT_2: Done it EDIT_3: Currently making my way to Termina to see if I can put 300 rupees in the bank, but I'll get a minimum of 200. It is getting pointless doing it since no one can watch it other than me just posting a lame AVI of it.

Posted: 9/27/2006 1:11 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

It wasn't released in Europe till March 1st 1997.

Posted: 9/27/2006 10:01 AM

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Mitjitsu

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Joined: 4/24/2006
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I experenced 5 desyncs during this but I finally got it, if anyone can get this to fully run then tell me so or most likely where did it desync. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2121/ZELDA%20MAJORA%27S%20MASK%20%28USA%29.m64 I'm uploading an AVI of it soon. If this continues I'll have experienced around 75 desyncs during the course of the game. EDIT: Here's an AVI I made. I'm not exactly sure on what to do next, but I think it goes something like http://files.filefront.com/MM_TAS__NEWavi/;5945600;;/fileinfo.html 1. Get Fairy and learn Magic 2. Get silver rupee from chest somewhere (Don't know where to get it; I need detailed directions) 3. Deposit 99 rupees 4. Get 2 green rupees and deposit them in bank 5. Exit Clock Town and get 99 rupees 6. Deposit them in Bank 7. Get wallet upgrade 8. Buy bomb bag *9. Get more rupees in Termina *10. Deposit in Bank 11. Back flip to Clock Tower and briefly wait (although the wait should be minmalied to avoid boredom) 12. Skull Kid speech and play Ocarina Basically through manipulation and efficentcy, you want to collect effectivley all the rupee's needed for the rest of the game. Please someone patch up on what I just said and remember this is a TAS and not a segmented speedrun, and also done on a dodgy emulator. Check the rom ID and make sure all the plugins are exact especially the input pluggin. I'll admit that what I've done isn't perfect and it comes mostly through frustration of desyncs so the approach do something until it looks right and doesn't desync. BTW Deku spining is hard to perfect and so is scrolling optimally through text i.e. Four Giants text.

Posted: 9/27/2006 1:53 AM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

OK I've now experienced four desyncs now. I'll keep going till I get to the scarecrow. Fuck doing this game if this keeps happening, I'll call it quits at the scarecrow and I won't continue until Mupen patches this desync issue up.

Posted: 9/27/2006 12:06 AM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

I continued further and got to the scarecrow, but when I re-checked the run it desynced in the Stock Pot Inn just before I was about to open the door where the story of the four giants is read. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2119/ZELDA%20MAJORA%27S%20MASK%20%28USA%29.m64 How do you solve desyncs? is it possible to do minor hex edit to prevent that.

Posted: 9/26/2006 9:33 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

OK heres the opening sequence of MM upto the last text before you gain control in Clock Town. Pretty optimized in my opinion, but perhaps 2-3 seconds could be gained with more optimal movement. The first backwalk you see had to be within a degree otherwise if I was out either way I would have bashed into either side of the tunnel or if I was out 2 degrees eitherway I would have missed the tunnel completely. I personally think this game when its done will be more entertaining to watch compared to the OoT speedrun, here it is it'll have to be done optimally up to getting scarecrow to skip to the Final night and then you could afford to waste time in Termina by waiting for the exact frame to get a blue rupee out of the grass. I've checked the movie no desyncs I hope someone will do the bit up where the scarecrow skips to the Final night. This is intended to be a testrun as there is great uncertainy over the route and times of days. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2118/ZELDA%20MAJORA%27S%20MASK%20%28USA%29.m64

Posted: 9/26/2006 7:44 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
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Sorry for double posting but I've having a go at the opening stuff, but I can't seem to avoid the text where Tael refers to the old tree. On the very frame that the deku is meant to dive into the flower tael just keeps talking about Z-targeting the old tree.

Posted: 9/26/2006 5:13 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

It's not actually as atronomical as you think, as most of the time the analougue is tilted as 100% , and the near perfect angle which can be wittled done quite quickly if you can skillfully do it e.g. when I tried ajusting blind backwalks in OoT. First I would try and establish what range the angle must be in, I'll use 78 degrees as an example here. You would probally try to do 90 first, the 45 second and from there on in decrease 90 by 5 and then increase 45 by 50 until you eventually get it. If 78 wasn't the angle then you would have to start going into decimal which is very rarely done and would probally only be done to maximize the affect of a glitch. In B+K it was quite trival to work of the maximum speed I could run at when I did a quick turn to grab a honeycomb in SM. So to conclude optimzing movements isn't the hardest part of 3D games, the frustrating element of it is having re-rewind way back when you someone points out something that could easily save time over what you done before. Tell you what Why don't I try optimize everything up to meeting the mask salesman as a Deku.

Posted: 9/26/2006 12:14 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

I do agree somewhat with mwl. I only spend maybe 10-20 mins making a TAS once every 2-3 days, which is maybe about 100 re-records a session. Its much more difficult to fit a speedrunning session in compared to a TAS session. No one with even the busiest schedule could struggle to fit that in at some point during the week. Although it might look bad on the face of it when you say that something took you four months to do.

Posted: 9/26/2006 12:04 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

Acryte wrote:

AKA wrote:
what are you talking about? you don't need to learn sarias song. There are triggers for saria's song and you don't need to learn it to go to forest and beat forest.
Crap. no I knew that, and I also overlooked it.

Did I say that?

Posted: 9/25/2006 10:45 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

Zurreco wrote:

AKA wrote:
Why would you need to beat Shadow or Spirit?
Don't you need these two medallions to discover that Sheik is Zelda?

Not this time round.

Posted: 9/25/2006 9:29 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

Acryte wrote:

You can use that vine trick to get into the boss room in forest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvjmgP13C84 you should probably use this and do forest temple as a kid... I recomend bombs instead of bombchus to enter just because you will take a few minutes to get them versus taking about 1 min to enter as a kid w/ standard bombs... the time tradeoff is about equal, but then again, you also have less travel time, so I think sticking w/ bombs is the way to go... what are you talking about? you don't need to learn sarias song. There are triggers for saria's song and you don't need to learn it to go to forest and beat forest.

Unfortunatley the game will freeze if you complete FT as a child, its amazing how many people don't get that.

GuanoBowl wrote:

Wow, so close. Ive tried multiple ways to do each part of this segment. This is a good attempt to make it before sunset but not the best I'm assuming. If someone can point out where I need to do what, that would be awesome. Remember, time only passes in DMT, HF, & HC (moat area). http://rapidshare.de/files/34430262/CRAP.avi.html

I'm defintley convinced its possible from watching that. Are you gonna redo DC or continue? I think the owl in HF might have an impact because time passes when he flies away, a ground jump would avoid him, but can't you superslide past him. I'm not fully convinced that was the optimal superslide from DM to KV.

kwinse wrote:

comicalflop wrote:
if superslide/jump to get to ganon's tower early works mean that none of the temples need to be beaten, except forest halfway to get bows?
You still need light arrows to beat ganondorf, which involves either beating shadow and spirit or beating the forest temple so that you can go back in time and use bottle adventure to get light arrows on B.

Why would you need to beat Shadow or Spirit?

Posted: 9/25/2006 11:37 AM

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Mitjitsu

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Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

nitsuja wrote:

AKA wrote:
EDIT: I take the speedometer signifies pixels per frame.
The number is 4096/3 times the number of screenfuls per second. To get pixels per frame, multiply by 240/1024/60. So if the number says 1560, that means you're moving at about 1.14 screenfuls per second, which is about 6.1 pixels per frame.

I remember doing some programming for a basic 2D platform shooter as a school project, so my question is what does the 12 mean in the code below, this is relating to game where the character has to move on a stationery screen and wrap to appear on the next screen. When the character wrapped I just simply moved all the unwanted sprites off screen and resized the ones that were either already there or off screen. Xpos= Xpos + 12 EDIT: I tried to extensively improve the last hit to Robotnik and jump to switch to no aviel. I'm fairy sure that what I've done up to now is perfect play, but for some reason why I checked the to see when the number 3 at the end of the act fitted into place it was 32 frames ahead of the previous run, even although I know I'm 18 frames ahead on the ingame timer. I don't know if its fair to count the avoiding the end stage lag into the run when it submitted, since last time I lost a second overall because of the lag caused at the end of Spring Yard and Labarinth zones. This is refering to third act on both levels. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2099/Sonic%20all%20out.gmv

Posted: 9/24/2006 11:36 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Well a 100& TAS is well off limits, but something inbetween Guano's current run and a 100% would be good. Since the previous run skipped so much a lot of the tricks simply became useless, but its hard to have a rigid catagory. Like I said I would like to do an all medalion without any clipping glitches i.e. glitch in Ganon Tower and Boss key skip in Fire Temple, but that probally isn't a well enough defined catagory and so would get rejected or already known tricks would be used to obselete the run I was mentioning earlier. The judges would need to post what all the acceptable catagories are.

Posted: 9/24/2006 9:27 PM
(Edited: 9/24/2006 9:36 PM)

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

I think the speedometer is great Nitsuja, but I keep having to uncheck the read only option every time I reload a savestate and it can be very frustrating when I forget to do it. Is there a way to make it so thats not necessary? Anyway I'm trying to make to most of the speedometer, I managed to get more speed on the final hit into Robotnik, but despite that I was a fractionally a few pixels short of hitting him one frame earlier. Currently working on the jump to the switch but I don't seem be able to hit it any earlier than I did before, its quite annoying someone with a critical eye might question whether its optimally hit as the right edge of the switch needs to be in view in order to hit the switch. I'll upload when I'm done just so I can use it as a backup, as I accidently erased the entire of my last movie twice but downloaded my uploaded version so it wasn't such a big blow. EDIT: I take the speedometer signifies pixels per frame.

Posted: 9/23/2006 11:45 PM

Post subject: Re: Final run in progress

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Mitjitsu

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Joined: 4/24/2006
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upthorn wrote:

If you spot any errors, now is the time to let me know.

Very well, I don't normally comment on test runs because I'd rather just let the person get on with it and get used to the mechanics of the game rather than questioning everything that happened. 1. After you get the first emerald was there a good reason for Spin dashing left then right instead of spin dashing right. You probally wouldn't be able to get out from the postion with a full dash, but I sure that a partial spin dash would get you out faster than a two max spin dashes withing a short period of each other. 2. Was taking damage really necessary during the first two boss battles, I thought at first you were trying to reduce the end stage bonus, but its a 50,000 countdown. I'm sure that getting damaged causes lag because of all the calculations required to work out where the rings will go. 3. I hope thats the optimal time to hit the switch after Robotnik. 4. I understand why the HC boss was slow, since the elavator on the next stage wouldn't be positioned correctly. 5. Was that the optimal way to perform the water slide glitch in HC. 6. Was there a good reason for doing a full 180 at the start of the special with the blue tiles. 7. I think where you take damage on the spikes could of been better, I think you glided and then fell half-way to take damage. Surely it would be better to take a minimal jump and maximum distance to damage boost to the right at the earliest opertunity and then spin dash when you land. The spikes do have favourable physics in Sonic 2+3. Well you asked me if you thought I saw any errors (even if I wasn't sure myself) and there you go.

Posted: 9/23/2006 8:25 PM

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Mitjitsu

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nitsuja wrote:

So you're making 2 different runs, and right now you're doing the no-emerald one?

Yes, I'll do the ingame run then I'll do specific 50 ring stages then and special stages. Although I've spotted improvements on most of them, the differences will only be mear frames. Tnx for the link.

Posted: 9/23/2006 7:24 PM

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Mitjitsu

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nitsuja wrote:

GMV is allowed at microstorage now; no need to keep using Rapidshare. AKA: Do you think this will be published? It looks like you're aiming to obsolete your rejected run instead of (as many requested) JXQ's run.

What do you mean by microstorage? Is it on this site or another site and whats the web address (not that obvious when you think about it) I'm obselting JXQ's run, as well as that I'll go for an all emerald in game time. Two different runs sorry if that confused you.

Posted: 9/23/2006 6:45 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Joined: 4/24/2006
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I could only get 7 although its not the best way to test it because mouses are designed differently. You could do it with a spacebar, which is what I use for frame advance. I use a staircase method with my middle three fingers, then again I have a low lying flat spacebar which would give a high rate. Even that isn't fair because of the way different keyboards a are designed. The best method would be rubbing method, but thats not possible with the mouse I have.

Posted: 9/23/2006 6:29 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Joined: 4/24/2006
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I've started again to obselte the previous run. I want to see if I can knock 2 seconds off it, while that might not be a big deal to some folk it would mean a hell of a lot to me knowing previously how optimized it was. I re-done Green Hill 2 with a 2 frame improvement over the last one which works out to a 16 frame improvement overall, I tried to give it a different look without wasting time. I tried to experiment to see if I zip through the wall at the start and hit the speed boots, on one occasion I could glitch through the right edge on the box which was annoying as it might have been a great time saver. I tried to redo the first act to no aveil, I couldn't sqeeze any frames out of it although at best I was able to go fractionally out of sync and grab two seperate rings one frame earlier, so no improvement over the first stage. http://rapidshare.de/files/34181527/Sonic_all_out.gmv.html The third stage will be the same as my last because I'm convinced thats perfect, I'll edit out the twitching at the end though. For Marble 1 I'll miss one ring so I can get the correct damage boost as well as that I'll try get 50 rings while beating JXQ last one. As well as going for a ingame time run I'll try and optimize the emerald stages and see if I can squeeze any improvements out of the last three speacials although I'd still like to avoid collecting 50+ rings in them in order to avoid getting a continue. So far I'm guaranteed at least a 85 frame improvement, I just hope there is 35 frames somewhere.

Posted: 9/22/2006 11:21 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
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comicalflop wrote:

AKA wrote:
I found this glitch earlier on it might be useful, but probally not. Still its pretty cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_--6N-aRMjI
I don't see if it could be useful in the deku tree, seeing as it makes you fall to the outside and makes you start from the beginning

It works in other places aside from the Deku Tree.

Posted: 9/22/2006 9:20 PM

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Mitjitsu

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It does take a long time to do a N64 TAS. The only explerience I have of it is doing a rupee run and two runs of SM in B+K, as well as messing around with hyperspeed glitches in SM64. All these partial movies which lasted roughly 2 mins each took about 300, 700, 1200 re-records respecectivley as well as that I suffered about 5-6 desyncs which I had to go way back and do correctly and hope it doesn't desync, this encourages fewer re-records, because you eventually just end up going for an optimal look instead of making it frame perfect. It might not sound like a big deal, but there is usually a much bigger gap from making a re-record to re-loading the movie again, and it also takes longer to strategically make a different move as you have to have a more in depth memory as to what you did before and re-apply slightly different in some way, unlike 2D where you're effectively using brute force to do every part of the game. There would be a lot more N64 TASes if Mupen was more reliable and didn't desync so much.

Posted: 9/22/2006 6:24 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Joined: 4/24/2006
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I found this glitch earlier on it might be useful, but probally not. Still its pretty cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_--6N-aRMjI

Posted: 9/22/2006 6:22 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Joined: 4/24/2006
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I see 3D as a oportunity for different degrees of movement. The trouble with trying to compete with a previous 2D run, is that the differences between the two movies are really hard to spot unless your eye is highly trained for that specific game. Since if the previous movie was near optimal then there is no choice but to effectively copy input as certain parts of the game are indeed the optimal way to do that paticular section, with 3D even if certain movement is of an optimal time you can be pretty sure that there is another way to do it that'll be equally as long, but have a different look.