I guarantee you that the scarecrow song works. You've just applied the wrong learning method which is.
1. Visit Scarecrow as Child and play song .
2. Play it to the scarecrow as an adult so it can be properly learned.
3. Play it wherever Navi goes green for no aparent reason.
note: One note must be different.
You definitley need refills at certain points of the game. The start of Zora's river would be a good place and the graveyard as well. You also have to remember to perform the BA by having so many deku nuts in your inventory. The best place to get deku nuts is probally that plant in the Forest Temple where you'd perform the megajump.
Its also very important to have as full an inventory as possible when your quickly changing as a child and back to an adult during the BA. There is no place in FT where you could possibly collect bombs, so Lake Hylia might be worth doing as well. In Ganon's tower the beamos can be maipulated to drop bombs so refills are there also, but I'd heavilly advise getting the bombchu's in the next room, because there's twenty and it makes beating the tower enemies more easily because the bombs have a delayed explosion (obviously) while chu's will exploding on touching the enemy and possibly catch the one nearby.
The other decision that needs to be made is Scarecrow Song VS Magic Bean debate I personally think the scarecrow song is a better option, but Acryte thinks magic bean is. The scaresong is obtained by making up a song of eight notes provides there not all the same, and then repeated as an adult to remind the scarecrow of when he met you as a child. This is of course relating to fishing in Lake Hylia as an adult.
All in all I wouldn't risk running low on bombs for futures sake.
Well I have no problem using an updated version on a different console. I do have a couple of questions about it though.
1. Did you ever test to see how quickly the game could be completed without the mushroom flower powerups?
2. Why the hell do you get fireworks in two consequtive stages? its easy to discretley avoid them.
I also generally find the movements througout the game quite jerky despite the fact its a nicer looking game compared to the NES.
All in all I'd rather see a warpless TAS done on this since there were glitches that weren't exploitable. I also disagree with what Kles said earlier. just because a run is done on a more up to date console doesn't render it pointless and is therefore slower because of removal of bugs doesn't render it pointless.
Its a hard call so I'll vote meh
I really hope the moat can be done with a bomb, since it would save time in Jabu, because we wouldn't need to do the bomb hover. I've never seen a video of Acryte clearing the Valley of Doom but it sounds logical what he did, I just hope its true because thats what the run relies on for it to work. As far as I remember he said you hover boost, do back-flip and pull out a bombchu and the momentum combined with the explosion should force Link up onto the other side.
in the end, gannon wins. because those stupid Links were busy killing each other.
disclaimer: I'm talking about the gannon from the original LoZ's intro. That guy was never beaten, unlike that wimp ganon who gets his ass kicked by green tree-hugging kids on a daily base.
Tub wrote:
well, as gannon is not an option, I choose Links Awakening Link to last the longest of the bunch.
GANNON=BANNED (two offences)
I don't see any retro Links standing much of a chance against the newer 3D one's and don't underestimate the Wind Waker link because he's very quick compared to the other and has also has advanced combat moves in the form of a siddle i.e. roll side ways and cutting all the other links up from behind he's two quick. So in terms of who'd win it would be him.
EDIT: BTW, why couldn't I vote for him. I just had to vote for the OoT one.
Nitsuja taught and realized something for me when he submitted this run, namely, knowing how many different routes he took for this game and how incredibly creative he is, he proved something important to us: with flexibility, creativity and trying all possible routes, you can achieve a star run like this. That being said, its hard for me to say this because SprintGods run is beyond any doubt my favorite run but now I would not be surprised if he could improve pretty significantly SprintGod's Sonic3&Knuckles. Of course, this is all speculation, SprintGod have told me several times that you cannot improve his run
I have to admit after watching it for the third/fourth time I started to question it a bit as well. There could very well be about 15 seconds of improvements. There are a lot of routes, much more than in Sonic 2. Stages like Marble Garden, Night Carnival, Mushroom Hill and flying battery could all very well have improvements or exploitable glitches. Although some of the levels to me at least were obviously perfect.
P.S I think Nitsuja likes Sonic and I wouldn't be surprised if he did a run on Sonic Adventure 1, which in my mind is the hardest game to TAS in existence assuming of course the emu and tools are there to do it.
I wonder why GMV isn't allowed at microstorage.
Is this 14 frames from my version or from the version that nfq posted earlier on page 2 of this thread (which is said to be 20 frames faster than mine) ?
The swing is lower down meaning I take longer to reach thus lose frames over you. Watch them side by side, please speak out if you didn't think anything I did was optimal. I couldn't be more certain that I reached and the bee and pulled it off the mini zip glitch in the most efficent way possible.
Still enjoying the wobbling, I see.
Was anything else different except the turn around thing near the beginning?
Where did I wobble? I only made him nod. I'm not doing the up,down movement anymore.
There was quite a lot I did differently. I did a left+right stop at the start before hitting the bee, although its not possible to manipulate the postiion needed any earlier than I did, since its possible to get there roughly 10 frames earlier. I jumped to the bouncer from the stone block as well.
Ok I did some work on Green Hill 2 and made a 14 frame improvement on it.
http://rapidshare.de/files/33086805/Green_Hill_2.gmv.html
There are certain levels I feel I can't improve on, but there are specific ones that can.
Now don't tell me you can't visibly see the improvements made here.
I leave a long pause at the start so I can more easily hex-edit it in at the end.
The planing for a chaos emerald run will take ages although its much more knuckles friendly but I'd still rather see Super Sonic than Super Knuckles. I've used the super sonic cheat and I didn't really find it that useful for being quick apart from Metropolis and Wing Fortress.
You also have to remember that the specials takes forever to complete due to their automatedness. That would probally add at least another twelve minutes even more and what would be the best way to play them. I wouldn't want a 100% ring collection because that would mean getting perfects. I'd much rather see odd rings getting picked up and the last available ring being collected so Sonic barely passes each section.
OK just watched but despite what others and Nitsuja might say. I thought I saw areas that weren't optimally done although I could very well be wrong.
Aquatic 2
Casino 2
Metropolis
Wing Fortress
Come to mind
Hill Top 1 was my favourite stage. Both in the TAS and personally. Its also very simalar to Star Light Zones which are also coincidently my favourites. How come when I tried simalar stuff in Sonic_1 I simply died. I never said this before but now you see why glitching under Green Hill 2 is pointless because you'd simply die after passing the signpost. This can be done normally in Star Light 1 i.e. pass the sign post and die. This is of course relation to Oil Ocean 1. I also think this run makes the previous run much worse than it really was. I still respect it equally even after seeing this. It was certainly surprising to say the least. Although can any of the glitches be replicated relistically in real time?
I'll have a ago at doing them on a console
I definitley agree with the descision to kill and collect all rings in Sky Chase. Even though I can easily do it on a console in real time. I can't remember the exact stage (Aquatic 2 maybe), but I think when you did the mirrored movements was the best form of entertainment you did during the idle time, although I feel more syncro style dancing could of been done. I also liked the fact that you tried to help Tails keep up with Sonic rather than just leaving him in his wake. I have to admit that when Quietrust played Sky Chase, I thought he did that to avoid lag, which most likely wasn't true.
So take it as you will. I don't think this run is worthy of shiny gold star status.
It more worthy of Platinmum status.
So vote yes of course
I'll try nit pick and be more specific over the coming days.
One final question. How come you never kept Sonic on screen after the first stage?
I know that the game does a ground check to move Sonic along in auto pilot. Although its much more difficult in this game since Sonic needs to jump late and very high to be able to stay on screen.
I'll watch this run shortly, I've only read the first paragraph and table and I'm amazed that you made a two second improvement although I must ask how many frames were saved by using tails, because I didn't think it was possible to save any more than 30 frames without tails. Although using tail could definitley save the very minimum of a second.
EDIT: Was any frames lost to the previous run at any point?
EDIT: Sorry for the mistake, I always look at the table and make an assumption that the author is refering to frames saved as opposed to seconds saved.
In conclusion, I'd like to inoffensively point out that if you just don't want your efforts go in vain that badly, just do an improvement over JXQ's run with your present knowledge, make no stylistic mistakes pointed out by some respondents above, and no-one would have anything bad to say about it. It's up to you to make such a decision.
I probally did over do the twiching slightly, but it wasn't way over the top as many had pointed out. I wanted to make it obvious during certain points of the game that it was tool assisted, because I would hate if this run got hijacked and people thought it was or might be genuine. I'm waiting for a decision which'll probally take months as you and I equally know will be contriversal. Once its made I'll make up my own mind on what'll do then.
EDIT: Has any other run ever been rejected because of stylistic choices despite the fact that speed wise it was obviously good.
EDIT_2: Still keep in mind everyone. That this run has been requested to be made several times.
Here's how I broke the bombchu usage down
0 - in Spirit (just want to make that clear to everyone)
8 - for and getting to Dondongo
1 - for castle moat, although I think it can be done with bombs while Acryte says it can't. Guano will prove it either way when he gets there
1 - For crossing the Valley of Doom at Ganon's castle (I nearly spelled it with two n's there)
Complete the armos room by get the jewels, so we can get 20 bombchu's in the next room.
Something really funny happened when I met Zelda with all three Spiritual stones. Everything went normally, but then Impa didn't appear so that makes meeting Zelda with all 3 stones trually a pointless excercise. Talon was also still there, but I'm convinced he would still be there even if Zelda was only met with two Spirtual stones. The easiest way to check would be to stop Guano's previous movie when he's backwalking to Lake Hylia and simply visit Lon Lon.
So my question is either
A: Do we get the bottle at Lake Hyrule going through the usual routing
OR
B: When the owl drops Link in Kakariko. Do we get the bottle via cucco collection, although the collecting could probally be done a lot quicker than we think. The one important factor would be banking on it still being daytime. Isn't it always noon after Jabu?, because a deathwarp is required because King Zora still needs to be bypassed which'll take forever via the hovering strategy. I really couldn't say if we'll be in Kakariko during the day which means if thats the case then we have to Show the bottle to King Zora so he can shift his ass along and remove the contents from the bottle.
Incase anyone is interested this is how hyper Sonic looks and plays. I think he's just the same but with shield shield actions.
If you had read what I said before when I answered your question about hyper sonic, you would know that hyper sonic effectively has access to all shield actions at once, by pressing (direction) + jump in midair.
And he can breathe underwater without needing the bubble shield. Although this is useless in a speed run, because there is no water after Launch Base zone.
This was only to show to people who hadn't seen Hyper Sonic. Not to someone who already knew.
Incase anyone is interested this is how hyper Sonic looks and plays. I think he's just the same but with shield shield actions, although I don't know how they can be indivually activated.
Hows the progress bobxp?
Why does my run keep getting directly compared to JXQ's run? Many people don't seem to realise that his run is of a near optimal standard to begin with. Most of the improvements were too difficult to see unless you had a frame counter. I can't see too many people doing this run and being able to finish it, because the frustration factior is unbeliably high. I did save a lot of frames in various stages e.g. Marble 3, Spring 3 and Labarinth 3, but I lost frames through random programming mis haps and lag. Also if you looked around a lot of the threads beforehand were a lot of requests for this run to be done.
Talon is definitely not at Lon Lon Ranch if you don't wake him up. Why this would change after collecting all three stones is beyond me--I simply can't see the game automatically making that kind of an assumption.
Well, if you look at one of my vids I have all 3 spiritual stones Talon still there. Its still worth checking to see if he's there after the lullaby is learned. You have to remember that time is wasted if you need to talk to someone as the actual days itself within the game won't go on. You could get the bottle in Kakariko but that is time consuming, I'd think it would be much better if we didn't skip the bottle in the domain, but then again we must show it to King Zora.
You need 8 bombchu's for Dondongo's that includes getting there and completing the dungeon. Don't forget that we need to keep one bombchu spare so that Ganon Early can be done. Acryte's video doesn the hover to the bombs with 3 bombchu's although you could always strech your luck to see if its possible to do it in two, but I doubtful of that.
I had a look in the colosus and all the rocks except one are located near the temple itself and then one rock is surrounded by two bigger rocks which block the optimal path and can't be bypassed. So supersliding in the Colosus is a no no.
I gave my permission to the guy who hosted it, since he asked me if he could host, so heres a flash version of it. The sound loses sync with the movie but for those who haven't seen it here it is.
http://www.speedruns.net/content/view/53/78/http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5485379802544139318&q=sonic+run
I personally think the google run description is a little vague, because there is no explicit mention that I used slow down(frame advance) and savestates, it doesn't display the re-record rate either.
