I keep forgetting to say this but its slight faster if you equip and enequip a deku stick during a backrun, its a risky strategy in a speedrun because its risky compared to the time that it saves, all you do is equip the deku skip and then equip the sword and continually alternate between the two.
The first link thats meant to lead to the 2p is just this page (lol). The 1p run wasn't perfect, but its I understandable because of the boring factor. I don't know how that could of been done in so few re-records considering how hard this game is. The only scrolling beat em up I would like to do is Die Hard Arcade, thats if a good Saturn emulator with re-record and slowdown becomes available. There would be so much variation since there is a vast amount of special moves and combos.
Can anyone please upload the current movie for this game because the current movie has expired, I really want to see this because I can only ever get mid way through the third stage.
But in this case, it's probably faster for you to just redo that special stage.
Did you mean the dummy run special stage that I did? No I'm copying what nfq did when he re-editted Philipptr special stage but I'm no sure if that bash at the last corner was meant, unless it was absolutley neccesscary for removing the blocks. Does gens have frame advance or is is just play the game at 3% speed. Although I may have found an improvement (not a certainty) it may lose time because the new strat collects a few extra rings which means losing frames during the end screen.
But in this case, it's probably faster for you to just redo that special stage.
Do you mean the dummy run special stage that I did, no I'm copying what nfq did when he re-editted Philipptr special stage but I'm no sure if that bash at the last corner was meant, unless it was absolutley neccesscary for removing the block.
OK I've done the first stage with 50 rings in a frame perfect 30 secs and I also skidded at the last frame before the sign. I messed round the end screen coming close the the ring, but I didn't collect any tags because I suspect they cause a lag. I'm doing the first special and I'm noting down inputs and I'm wondering if that bash before the last corner was a mistake. How do you hex edit? and don't post that link into Bisquits FAQ.
From what I understand although I'm yet to see it (I'll watch it later providing it doesn't desync). There is a chance that equipping a sword or Deku stick might cancel out the damage dealt, I'll check if this is true later. If that is the case then simply use a crouch stab to cancel out the deku stick, I wonder if it possible to do when you light the final torch just as the chest falling cutscene is about to appear as that wouldn't cost any addionial time.
OK the test run is complete here is the final version, I'll updatet the front page Tommorow
COMPLETED TESTRUNhttp://rapidshare.de/files/23081222/Sonic_the_Hedgehog.gmv.html
note: I wasn't going for true perfection
Now proper disscussion can begin on tactics. The last special is definitley my favourite as its about the only one where the bouncer could actually be used.
If anyone want to try anything for themselves e.g. special stage or ring time attack then you can use the link provided.
I tried experimenting with a few different strats for marble 3 but it turns out it was a lot slower, the only bit I borrowed of JXQ's run was the 3 hit on rototnik. I'm now at the beggining of Spring Yard 3, which shouldn't be too hard as I'll go for the 30 secs, I seriously doubt it can be completed in <24 secs + 50 rings.
http://rapidshare.de/files/22987002/Sonic_the_Hedgehog.gmv.html
Just two stages left before I start again, although marble 2 needs a proper look into for the ring route + the last three special stages.
Edit: OK I done Spring Yard 1 which didn't pose too many problems, I got a frame perfect 30 seconds this time unlike Green Hill 1, I'm not sure if its possible to get <24 secs.
http://rapidshare.de/files/22998813/Sonic_the_Hedgehog.gmv.html
I haven't had a proper look at the 5th special yet but it does look complicated.
EDIT_2:
OK I did the 5th special and I personally thought the previous one was harder but here it is. The collision system for that level is dodgy and unfavourable.
http://rapidshare.de/files/23019870/Sonic_the_Hedgehog.gmv.html
Just one last stage.
Nah, you'd just savewarp after learning the Lullaby and enter Zora's River from the Lost Woods. Then, warp to Lake Hylia from Zora's Domain for the bottle and warp back. Then the rest is basically the same. I'll update the Wiki route once we've seen confirmation that the day/night cycle really does work out when played this way.
Problem how can you kill yourself imeadiatley after impa, because you can't lose 2.5 hearts between Kokiri >> Hyrule >> Lake Hylia >> Fishing Pond >> Lake Hylia > Owl >> Hyrule >> Hyrule castle >> Outside Hyrule castle
the only places you could relistically take damage are bombchu boost, bird in Lake Hylia and bomb in courtyard and chains at drawbridge. All of them do 0.5 hearts of damage. Has anyone ever managed to get the bottle using the house glitch. I tried getting the OoT using levatation at the moat, but I couldn't fully prove that is was/wasn't possible to grab an item underwater from beneath an item. The reason is because of the distant fixed camera angle. Remeber that time is wasted through the death sequence and further still diverting time to take damage. There is no way that Links house to Lake Hylia via Lost Woods is faster than Drawbridge to Lake Hylia, and further still there is 5 transistion scenes compared to one from the drawbridge. Not only that you would need to play the lullaby at the waterfall which wastes 10-15 secs.
Yes I could go along with owl after goldscale, since I had the misconception of time flowing in the fountain. After the lullaby is learned you could then backwalk to Lake Hylia; collect bottle; Zora's Domain; Jabu (jumpslash in I presume); Zora's River; warp to woods; Goron city; toss bomb and enter Dondongo's; bottle trick with fish (collect on the way to the river after Jabu); Great Fairy fountain; owl warp; head for moat and initaite Ganondorf cutscene; BB (bombag upgrade); master sword.
OK I had a go at the fourth special stage it isn't as frustrating compared to the others but it is extremely hard and took the most re-records by far, but I get the feeling that this'll get beaten by over 10 secs. I couldn't remove the blocks in one go no matter what I did, I tried experimenting with different approaches but the stage rotates too fast, so I had to let it go the full 360 so I could complete it. So here it is, if anyone is having a go at it you must at all costs avoid collecting 50 rings thus getting a continue.
http://rapidshare.de/files/22887728/Sonic_the_Hedgehog.gmv.html
Ok I did the second marble stage. The stage isn't hard when your going for pure speed, but there is no smooth route through the stage that collects 50 rings, because of that I made a huge diversion, which costed significant time. I also left a few strats out so the process of doing the level would be quicker. Here's the run to the beggining of the fourth special, this special is actually quite an interstesting stage compared to the others so far, its kind of like a maze, but importance must also be put on avoiding the coninue at the end screen.
Here it is
http://rapidshare.de/files/22818707/Sonic_the_Hedgehog.gmv.html
I think it was 463 frames faster.
btw: how do you plan on going on with this movie: play it through and then hex all the special stages in, or doing it again?
I wish I knew how to do hex. Once the final special is done, I'll restart from the beggining, I just want to know where the common problem obstacles are. I'm still going for the fastest in game time though. Marble 1 wasn't paticulartly great although the badly timed arrival at certain obstacles is what made it look bad. I'm about 70% of the way through marble 2, and I'm at the bit where the lava drops after the bit where the blocks need to be smashed.
I think I may have spotted a 1-2 frame improvement in Green Hill 3, but I couldn't be certain in its faster than JXQ's method. I have some ideas on what might improve nfq's second green hill zone and what get <17 overall, but I think it would not be possible to collect 50 rings. My idea was that you copy nfq's run up until jumping on top of the loop and land on the extra life and bounce accross several enemies and possibly over the bit where the snake tunnel is entered. The reason I say this is I've come close to doing a thing very simalar to that on a console.
Yeah pretty sweet can't see too much wrong with it.
How much faster was it compared to mine anyway?
I'll have to slow it down to work out the mistakes if there any
I'll try and get to the end of the second marble so the 4th stage can be tried out.
I think nfq did it faster than that. Still not bad, the first two have been done in a near optimal fashion (nfq's not mine). It would be better if you tried the third special stage.
It may be decided by when you enter the Spirit, but you get a red ruppee at Death Mountain when you blow up the second boulder on the way to the great fairy. I'm sure that ten ruppees could be easily aquired on the way to evetually getting BB.
I'm fairy certain that everything in a dungeon/temple is predetermined on entry.
OK I done the special stage, but there is bound to be a much faster strat than this. The difficulty isn't reaching the blocks its staying focused on them. The engine is unfavourable when it comes to this stage as only ever one block at a time can be removed, plus there is something which causes sonic to remove the nearest block starting from an clockwise position
http://rapidshare.de/files/22526910/Sonic_the_Hedgehog.gmv.html
Someone should try doing the stage for themselves to show a better more effient strat.
Sorry for the long wait there was other stuff going on and I had to retrace my steps many times and the overall result isn't perfect, but I could have made them if I was in the right mood, but the speacial stage at the end can be practiced on. The speacial stage is simple but there is a vast number of routes and tactics which can be used in order to obtain the emerald
http://rapidshare.de/files/22490958/Sonic_the_Hedgehog.gmv.html
This is just a test run, I'll remove the mistakes during the next run.
I watched the run and I have to say that it is greatly improved as (I think) during cutscenes there is only ever two distict times. That should mean that you can get to the bridge earlier.
I would strongly reccomend getting the bombag from BB instead of bombchus as there is no trick that requires bombchu's running along a series of walls in the Adult quest. The time could be made up with a seies of ground jumps and hover boosts/mega jump plus you get 30 bombs for the Adult quest. The drawback would be that the bombs would need to stay assigned to the C buttons until the last section of the Spirit temple so that would probally mean more pausing, but the time saved from ground jumps and boosts would greatly exceed the time wasted through pausing.
If the jabu trick doesn't save the time, then I'm afraid that you'll have to capture a fish and dump it on the alter, but you can take advantage of this by using the bottle glitch so you can have two fishes, thus saving the time throwing Ruto up and going back down again.
okay, so I shall start from entering Zora's Domain? I would love to do this rather than everything all over again. And I think that rolling into Jabu will be 5-6 seconds faster than jump slashing.
I would not like to do Jabu over again, it was a pain in the ass with the bomb boost as well as the boomerang room, unless someone has a faster strat. then what I had in there.
Is there a faster way I can get to the fishing pond and into Zora's Domain? That could shave some seconds off....... Maybe
I couldn't tell from watching but were you pressing "B" while swimming, it speeds up movement in water 1.5, also you kept targeting the bottle which loses frames. Yes get the deku nut this time, it won't be hard to get as pots are never random in what they give. Its the one on the slope to the right. Yes Jabu will be annoying, but the boss will be much simplier and faster.
EDIT: I don't know if I'm right but I think these are the corners which you have to roll into. I've circled them in red. Yautja needs to confirm if thats the right place to roll into since I've never actually pulled it off. This could prove as equallly as frustrating as the bean skip.
http://tagworld.com/pictureX/PictureDetail.aspx?id=5b3e0003-a3da-41a2-84e9-8e9c905d6250&un=pictureX
oh and while you're checking checking out this link you can check the bean demo picture, as it shows the minimum height you must sword jump if you want to skip the bean and the minimum height to be damage boosted.
If under 3, just start in Zora's Domain...get the Deku Nut, and roll into Jabu. Don't start all the way back in Spirit.
The Jabu trick will be frustrating but worth it for the crucial time it saves. Some of the inputs inside Jabu might need changing because of the slightly different setup of rooms.
mwl wrote:
Still, I think someone needs to figure out how to hex-edit .m64 files. It's doable with .fcm files -- do a search and you'll find many topics discussing that.
Yes thats true, I carefully read over the FAQ and it just states what it is instead of going into detailed steps as how to do it on each seperate emulator.
mwl wrote:
If I remember correctly, time is frozen during dialogues.
Hmm, I'll take your word for it, but I'll check none the less.
Edit: Yup for the owl dialougues at least, time is stationery. The moving
skyline gives the impression that time is passing.
Edit_2: I checked Malon dialougue and time is stationery there as well
mwl wrote:
You'd still jumpslash with a stick on the Armos and preserve the power of that attack until the Iron Knuckle. Don't use your sword anytime in between.
You could jumpslash with the other deku stick if its need for an extended reach. The only thing I'm not sure of is would the damage be cancelled if a deku stick or sword was a equipped. When I say equpping sword I mean pulling out the sword to cancel out the burning deku stick.
