Time doesn't pass in the wasteland, it passes in Collusus, but that was done fine unless it can be done in fewer sidesteps. I have't pulled off the roll into Jabu trick, TSA and Yautja have done it but say its too hard to even attempt a video of it. I pretty sure I know what corners they are, If you face away from Jabu starting from the centre of his mouth and hold "B" so that Link is preparing for a sword spin, you can see the first two corners. You have to roll into them at full speed in a pixel perfect way much like Sakons hideout in MM, but ten times harder. That trick would save 2-3 seconds over the jumpslash.
The other easy improvement would be to speed up the owl text after Link leaves Kokiri.
Does mupen have frame skip so the game can be played at turbo speed?
its annoying playing the game at 1000% because its hardly fast forwarfing it.
Well that was based on the run I uploaded a month ago. It must be possible to miss the owl without leaving the river possibly by diving before the waterfall.
So as far as I understand the only reason Lake Hylia was choosen because it was assumed that the owl at the bottom of the river can't be skipped, well it can and possibly by swimming throught the river without coming out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN_-aQr_Feo
Here's Yautja's video of it, in my run I got down the waterfall and the owl talked to me, but when I looked more closely at the video I didn't hug the right wall as in Yautja's video.
Guano, if you upload the run now I might be able to work out how you can shave off those crucial seconds,but I fear it'll mean you backtracking to a point that was way back and just perfecting transtions daytime/nightime transition areas the only thing I could think of based on what I've seen is to roll into the corner of Jabu instead of Jumpslashing,but thats way back unless you can hex edit what you did in Jabu. Yautja is the best person to ask about it because it requires a pixel perfect roll.
DemonStrate wrote:
I say, to get that amount of time back, youll have to go way back and redo parts youve done already with Acryte's suggestions and other people's suggestions. I heard like a page ago or so that on one of the bosses you could save a few seconds. You probably can save a bunch more seconds than that if you would redo those other parts. Remember, this is just a TEST RUN, so redoing parts and fixing other things is needed alot of the time. Thats just my thoughts on it.
He only needs to improve on daytime/nightime transition, which doesn't include dungeons . It would be easier if he can save some of the inputs to dungeons.
You have to wait for it to be be daytime so there is no need to panic. You can't bypass the guards and even if you could you eventually hear the void noise., you're required to wait, but make sure you use a savestate before you enter the tunnel so you can experiment on the guard setup espeacialy the last set of guards, I think sidesteps would probally be best if backwalking can't be done.
I don't think its actually possible to back-walk through the castle grounds. I could walk backwards initally, but when your in the areas where the guard appeared I could only walk diagonally backward backwards. if this is true then its best to side jump through the sequence. Try entering the grounds through the moat at different frames, so that you don't have to pause for the guards at any point. Seam walking shouldn't be to hard if you configure the analougue settings on the keyboard.
But it's doable, and this is what separates a TAS from a console speedrun. If it's the most frustrating trick in the run, at least the rest of it is all downhill from there on out.
I'll say this now and its not to deliberately put Guano off. It took me approximatley seven hours worth of trying spread over four playing sessions. That'll translate into weeks of trying on a TAS.
Thats only gonna lead to me and other people disreguarding what you say
mwl wrote:
Why the hell are we getting Deku Nuts as an adult? Because they would be good for Ganon? You'd need more than just three Deku Nuts for there to be a significant difference, and your sword spins are fast enough. Keep in mind that you get a string of text boxes every time you pick up a new item.
When I said three deku nut I meant 15, because every time you collect one it increments your total by five. I think the text boxes (which can be speeded up) aren't a justification to skip getting a nut. The nut is also very good for Ganon's tower espeacally the lizard and the first stalfos. The mad plant I was refering to is the one to the right of the door when you play the SoT to remove the time block.
mwl wrote:
No, Shadow is definitely doable with three hearts. If it becomes an issue, he can always pick up a heart from a defeated enemy.
Yes, but it will be hard and frustrating
mwl wrote:
We're not planting the bean. That takes too long. Going to the graveyard is now an unnecessary diversion, and where are we going to get the 10 Rupees for the magic bean?
There is no video demostating the bean skip, and I'm not prepared to even think of making one. All I'll say is that you need to roll jump and have a perfect peak jump slash followed by the poe hitting Link at an upward perpendicular angle, even then half of Links body is hanging over the edge once its done.
mwl wrote:
Once again, I ask where the Deku Nut before King Zora is. It should have been brought up way earlier.
The deku nut in the domain is where the pots are near the bottom of the domain.
The owl is definitley not faster because of the long conversation and flight sequence, so take the river and get the bean so you can plant it once you get into Kakariko via owl. When you appear outside the castle with impa its always day, so you have to use the bridge to kill yourself. I'd rather Guano just completed it, I'm still wondering if he can break 2:15. Shadow Temple is gonna be really hard with three hearts when you consider all these damage related tricks. If you're getting deku nuts then it would probally be best to kill the giamnt mad plant in Forest so you can get 3 deku nuts.
I did say I'll be restarting after Spring Yard 2 once I aquire all the emeralds. I was eight frames past 30 secs anyway. Spring Yard one will be much simplier if its completed within 30 secs. A long wait is all part of the entertainment, I could quite easily of completed the first act in 25 secs with 50 rings, but I get board of watching long bonuses at the end of stages. I now realise why this game is so cursed to all runners, and thats because timing and jumping is not very forgiving.
Ah runs much better now, I'll probally have a lot to say by the end of it.
Edit: It desynced during the fishing game. I have a question and that is did you get the deku nut on the way to King Zora?
My Barinade strategy courtousy of Mano and Acryte
1. Pretty obvious what to do in first phase
2. Bomerang core and use crouch stabs, no need to to jump slash
3. Hit core early and use nut to instantly kill all jellyfish
4. Move so that you can corner Barinade and jumpslash with stick
5. Take damage to rise quicker
6. Crouch stab when Barinade is stunned
7. Repeat stages 5 and 6
I would definitley get the heart piece here as you have to wait for Ruto to rise.
I've downloaded the latest version of the run and it desyncs once the sword has been collected. I have both Euro and USA versions 1.1.. It's strange Mario 16 min and current 120 star run, runs perfectly.
,
JXQ got a damage boost right when he had 19 rings :/[/quote
Are you refering to the bat, I meant if you land on horizontal surface that causes you damage. The lava damage saves a lot of time, but I'll avoid doing the spike trick. Ok I'll go for all out speed so I can get past the moving block without waiting.
Actually what I said was slightly wrong about the spirit. You used the stick on the armos which was correct, but you then went on and cancelled the out the power crouch with a jump slash later on. You should keep in mind for later on
Does anyone know where I can buy A Gamecube USB converter, but it must have an option of being purchased by text message.
I'm just gonna slightly improve the robotnik battle and switch and then continue up to Spring Yard 2 and then restart again, but still going for a low frame count. I have some ideas that might knock a few frames off nfq's current run. There is only one small improvement in act 3 that might save a frame.
Can someone confirm that you need six chaos emeralds and not seven. The most fun part of the game is certainly collecting the rings.
In Marble 1 is it best to not do the first damage trick or should I do it and get the second shield on the left past the post.
thats impresive, is there a way to correct the mistake at the start without having to go through the nighmare of redoing the rest of the stage. It does sound bad losing 1/5 of a second or 0.19x to be more exact. I was hoping to do that stage in 30 secs, but trust me robotnik probally can't be beat in one visit because when he begins to lower the ball you cannot bounce off him unless the inital impact to be cushioned better. I only did one thing different and I'll time the stage against JXQ to see who iniatles the long jumping section the fastest (minus my mistake at the start). I only did one thing slightly different anyway.
I'd advise you just copy by watching when me or JXQ hold and release to A button.
Edit: Dammit- minus the mistake at the start I was 19 frames slower in reaching robotnik
Are there actually any stars in the game where you must use the metal cap, you certainly don't need it for that gas cave as you could probally use wall kick to avoid losing time through damage. If thats true then you could save a heck of amount of time by pause warping or retracing to the ness monster.
And AKA and Acryte, just help me with my run please by demonstrating, actually doing some Link action, something. You guys say you know what you are doing so help me
[why do quotes never appear boxed]
We are, I have plenty of videos if you check my link and did you watch my best ever Kokiri completion (with the infamous green bars) which I posted several pages back.
Your best bet is to sift through that monster 200+ topic at SDA, me, Kazooie, Yautja, fluffy and Acryte(if he put the link in his sig) all have videos which would be of use to you. If you look hard I posted 4 half hour videos of me beating the child adventure in 1:45 during a failed attempt at a SS sub-3.
Maximum respect JXQ that was certainly a hard act to follow (lol). I suspect I need to improve my robotnik battle and yeah not very good jump on the switch. I need some expert to tell me what I need to do different.
http://rapidshare.de/files/21476487/Sonic_the_Hedgehog.gmv.html
My advice would be to use lots of back ground markers so you know exactly how long you need to hold down the jump button. Every jump exept for one had to be positioned and timed frame perfect
Here it is. I'll improve it pending on advice
I couldn't properly comment on your video because I hadn't seen it in the flesh. Don't worry about these errors, because you or someone else can do another run which erradicates all these errors.
Things could change dramaitcally if Acryte or someone else can do the leap of faith to Ganon's castle. If someone could provide a save state on top on the area where you need to do the leap of faith, then I could experiment using slow down. I think it'll require techniques and accuracy's which are only doable with slowdown. I don't know how comfident Acryte is of pulling it off. I only tried a mega jump and fell about ten feet short.
Well if you want to call yourself "J" then you do that, its just the next time someone does a run,they'll quite easilly be able to save a heavy dose of frames over you.
Yes you absolutley need Ruto to get the bomerang
Have you got a fish?
Remember to collect it again so you can use it in Dondongo.
Ok now I've seen the run in its entirety I feel I have a lot to say about it and it'll mirror a lot of what Acryte said and perhaps repeat what others have said as well.
Ok deep breath...
NEVER EVER diagonally back-walk for anything more than 30 frames. Only use it if it is required to minorally change the direction of back-walks. Always favor speed of movement over distance travelled
Ok now I've got the main point over. I'll begin from the start
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During the startip menu when you are naming yourself. Instead of calling yourself "J"
Do A, Start, A and contiually hit A.
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Back-walk into the first two ruppees, back-flip onto the ledge and re-aline yourself and back-flip over the fences to get the blue and green ruppee. That is what I roughly do as I can consistently reach the tunnel 2 seconds faster than you.
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!!!SCREAM!!! why didn't you reach a grand total of 30 ruppee's in the bushes, this is a TAS for goodness sake so maximise your luck you might even reach 35 ruppees. It saves the unnesccary diversion in the shop. Also did you experiment on trying to sword spin the 2 plants, because I've proved its doable in normal play. I know it may sound stupid but are you using a USB converter?
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During all text scene do A,B,A,B,A,B
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I'm not even gonna mention the walkway up to the slingshot room, I would use rolling which is acceptable for a human but you should use side-steps
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I'll say this now ,as it applies to a lot of what happened during your run. When using your sling shot NEVER lock on (with exeption to Gohma) as it causes an undue delay
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Nice deku shrub room I have to say, but why of why did you not use a stick on Gohma, it would of beaten Gohma in less than half the time
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Very good up until the lens, I'm probally wrong but I'm sure its possible to do that section in two back-walks instead of three
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It doesn't hurt you to collect 20 ruppees after you get the key, it saves from all these other mini diversions that you gonna have to make. Also you lost a stick for no reason, I would be doing everything to conserve it and poor Iron Knuckle battle (because you didn't use the stick you should of conserved)
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Thats all I've seen I take it you used the jumpslash into jabu instead of rolling into the corner, which is fine if that method becomes too frustrating to pull off.
I don't want any replies lashing out at me, I tried to say it in the best possible way. And none of that "Why don't you do it yourself , The answer to that is I'm doing an SS sub-3 on a console within 3-4 weeks.
I've only seen the video up until that point
Yes, I know you have a much faster 1st special stage than me. I have to admit I haven't played this game for about 2 years. so l'm just trying to work out stuff as I go along, at least someone sympathises with the difficulty of the special stages. I look forward to seeing your version of the second special stage. I'll tell you what, why don't I continue and do a sort of dummy run on Marble 1, the reason I initailly said we shouldn't get 50 rings on Marble 1 is because of all these damage related tricks, but maybe the trick with the spikes at the start should be avoided so the shield damage could be used for the falling in the lava area.
So I guess now that the emeralds should be done done like this
Green Hill 1+2
Marble 1+2
Spring Yard 1+2
Scrap Brain 2
Oh and nfq, to be entirely neutral you don't have to over emphasise your brillance compared to me as its much easier to spot the mistakes in someone else's run, than your own. This applies to both of us.
