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Posted: 4/12/2009 1:33 PM

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MrGrunz

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ok, it should be possible to roll after shooting the last arrow and get a superslide of it I'll try now

Posted: 4/12/2009 11:37 AM

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MrGrunz

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ISG has the power of a normal sword slash. arrows have the power of a jumpslash arrows are a lot quicker than ISG HISS for goht! ZFG had 2 nice theorys for the goht fight yesterday, which I'll test soon ;)

Posted: 4/12/2009 12:30 AM

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MrGrunz

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sword does less damage than arrow, if you don't use jumpslash and HISSing over to him costs time, too, so arrows are definately the quickest way to kill goht but your backflip thing seems to be possible :/ I'll test that soon

Posted: 4/12/2009 12:13 AM
(Edited: 4/12/2009 12:16 AM)

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MrGrunz

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Ok, I and Slowking figured out, that we're able to activate infinte deku stick with bomb damage, what allows us to beat the mini bosses a lot quicker here's the new route from ranch to the end of the game: HISS to bush, Megaflip of the blob down the ledge, ISS to other Bush, Get 20 Bombs + 20 Rupees, HISS of red blob to Milk Road, ISG-ISS to Rock, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, 3 Bombchu Hovers, SS to Epona, Get Bottle (20R) (17B) (17C) Warp to GB, Swim to Pirate's Fortress, Mega Flip past Gap, Get Hookshot, Zora Egg, Recoil Flip with Bomb to second Zora Egg, Deposit Eggs (14B) (16C) Back to Pirate's Fortress, Skip Pirate Battle with 4 Bomb Hovers + 2 Mega Flips, Skip second Pirate Battle with Recoil Flip from Bomb, Deposit Eggs, Get rest of Zora Eggs, Learn NWBN (7B) (15C) Play Zora Pots Game one time + get 10 Bombs from Stone + get 1/4 heart damage from leaves, Go to South Bay Owl, Get 5 Bombs, Enter GBT (110R) (20B) (15C) Mega Flip past Gap, HISS, Boss Key Skip with Bomb Staircase + 1 Bomb Hover + 2 Mega Flips, Kill Gyorg, Get 5 Bombs from pot (17B) (11C) Get back to GBFF, Fairy Fountain Wrong Warp with new Strat, ISG-ISS up to Snowhead Temple (12B) (3C) Block Skip, Bomb Long Jump Strat with Damage ISS from Bomb to blow up ice enemy, Scarecrow Song Skip, 1 Recoil flip with Bomb + Recoil Flip with Bombchu, Beat Wizrobe Infinite Deku Stick from Bomb Damage, Get Fire Arrows, Hookshot to Torch (8B) (2C) Hookshot other Torch, Mega Flip past Gap, HISS strategy with Bomb for Snowballs (5B) (1C) Mega Flip past Gap, Boss Key Skip, Kill Goth, HISS over to Warp Zone (1B) (0C) Get 5 Bombs from plant, Warp to CT, Buy 20 Chus + 10 Bombs, Warp to Ikana, Pull out Bomb while walking to plant, Get 5 Bombs, ISS up to Stone Tower (20B) (20C) Climb Stone Tower with Mega Flips, enter ST (10B) (13C) Bomb Staircase + Sidehop strategy past Sun Block, Get small key and minimize Magic Meter, so you can only use 4 Fire Arrows anymore (8B) (9C) Bomb Staircase + Zora Grab Trick past Sun Block, Get 10 Bombs from enemys + 3/4 Heart Damage from enemy, Recoil Flips in Updraft Room, Kill Garo's Master with Infinte Deku Stick from Bomb, Death Warp (12B) (6C) Inverted Stone Tower with Mega Flip, Bomb Long Jump past first room, Boss Key Skip, Kill Twimmold with Fire Arrow Strat (5B) (1C) Warp to CT, Use new strat for Clock Tower early (2B) (0C) SS to Kid, Kill 1+2 Cycle of Majora normally, Kill 3rd Cycle of Majora with Infinite Deku Stick from Bomb (0B) (0C) Changes compared to old route: - HISS before GBT Boss Key Skip - Different Bridge Room Strat - Recoil Flip with Bombchu over to Wizrobe - Wizrobe with Infinite Deku Stick - Mega Flip over to Snowballs - HISS through last Snowball - No more damage from Gyorg - Mega Flip past last Snowhead Temple gap with less Explosives - Garo's Master with Infinite Deku Stick - 3rd Cycle of Majora with Infinite Deku Stick This should be the best possible route with all the current tricks we have at the moment ;) Here's the first cycle route made by Slowking: get 2r at the very beginning on your sidehop route to the wooden stumps (2r) hear grandmas storys twice and dance with the scarecrow, deposit the 2r get to ECT, do a full run through termina field to WCT (101r) get to ECT, get fairy, do half a run through termina field to NCT, get 99r from 36 bushes, get magic, deposit the rupees (200r) get to clock tower, wait for 12 O'clock, get ocarina and SoT, timetravel

Posted: 4/11/2009 9:51 PM

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MrGrunz

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yeah, but bomb damage > ice damage can you test if it's possible? would be awesome for garo's master, because we have exactly one bomb to waste ;)

Posted: 4/11/2009 9:23 PM

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MrGrunz

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hmm, getting frozen cost some time, but it allows you to skip one wizrobe cycle, what should be 1-2 seconds faster, but if I think about it again, it takes some time until wizrobe shoots the ice spirit at you, which eliminates all the saved time again ;) another idea: use a bomb to activate the infinite deku stick trick. if the bomb way works, it gives us also a damage of 1/2 hearts, what could be pretty useful :/ we'll have one bomb for garo's master for sure and if it works, I'll simply create a route, that leaves us with this extra bomb for the stick trick now on to the superslide trick: it depens on how much time a arrow needs to reach goth. we'll have to roll 37 frames before the explosion and we need 5-6 frames to take the bow away and turn around. so if we arrows needs more than 42 frames, it should work then again, we don't know, if the cutscence stops the superslide we'll have to test this Swordless, you can simply start the TAS now. We still need to optimize the Ranch-GBT-Snowhead section a little bit, but we'll do that soon

Posted: 4/11/2009 5:30 AM

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MrGrunz

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we don't mega hover over to the snowballs that's a million times slower and costs more explosive

Posted: 4/10/2009 9:11 PM

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MrGrunz

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ahhhhhh, swordless is going to hate me now :o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n596eH-uhwI I simply had to do this, sry I tryed some figure out some new speed tricks. 1. HISS past last snowball. should be quicker and works with bomb as well 2. damage ISS in bridge room. I have a strategy, that should work with bomb as well. 3. Mega Flip past gap with 2 explosives. using a bomb hover in the beginning made this possible 4. the only way to manipulate goth is rolling over to him. he stands still, when you roll I'll correct the TAS route later

Posted: 4/10/2009 10:42 AM

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MrGrunz

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I'm the guy, who discovered this, so yes, we know it ;)

Posted: 4/9/2009 10:54 AM

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MrGrunz

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no, the deku sticks are directly on our way you have to kill the dekus to be able to use the deku flowers, so why not get a stick from them?

Posted: 4/8/2009 11:59 PM

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MrGrunz

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Finally, brought to you by Slowking, MrGrunz and Azorae, here's the finished Majora's Mask TAS route: First Cycle get 2r right after you get turned into a Deku (2r) hear grandmas storys twice and dance with the scarecrow, deposit the 2r get to ECT, do a full run through termina field to WCT (101r) get to ECT, get fairy, do a half run through termina field to NCT, get 99r, get magic, deposit the rupees (200r) Second Cycle Hit CT Owl, Withdraw 200R, Buy Bomb Bag + 20 Chus (70R) (20B) (20C) ISG-ISS to Fence, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Hover over Fence with Bomb and Chu, SS to GB (17B) (19C) ISS to Water, Hit Owl, Get Zora Mask, Leaver Slide to South Bay (16B) (19C) Flying Zora to Fountain, Blow up Rock with Chu, Play SoDT (at least somewhere around here), New Fairy Fountain Strat (12B) (10C) SS to Owl, Hit Owl, 5 Bombs from Plant, Recoil Flip with Bomb down to River, Swim to Swamp, Go to Lost Woods, Get 10 Rupees, ISS from Bombchu, Get Bottle (15B) (9C) ISS to Octo, Sidehops to Deku Palace, ISG-ISS past Deku Guards, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Use old Zora Jump Strat, Get Sonata + SoS (11B) (9C) Get 3 Deku sticks from Dekus and 1 Deku Stick from pot on the way to Woodfall Temple, Enter Temple Mega Flips past Gap, Kill Lizarfos with Jumpslash Strat, Get Bow (9B) (8C) Recoil Flip to get OoB, 8 Mega Flips, Kill Odolwa (1B) (0C) Warp to CT, Buy 20 Chus, Leave to GB (0R) (1B) (20C) HISS to bush, Megaflip of the blob down the ledge, ISS to other Bush, Get 20 Bombs + 20 Rupees, HISS of red blob to Milk Road, ISG-ISS to Rock, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, 3 Bombchu Hovers, SS to Epona, Get Bottle (20R) (17B) (17C) Warp to GB, Swim to Pirate's Fortress, Mega Flip past Gap, Get Hookshot, Zora Egg, Recoil Flip with Bomb to second Zora Egg, Deposit Eggs (14B) (16C) Back to Pirate's Fortress, Skip Pirate Battle with 4 Bomb Hovers + 2 Mega Flips, Skip second Pirate Battle with Recoil Flip from Bomb, Deposit Eggs, Get rest of Zora Eggs, Learn NWBN (7B) (15C) Play Zora Pots Game one time + get 10 Bombs from Stone + get 1/4 heart damage from leaves, Go to South Bay Owl, Get 5 Bombs, Enter GBT (110R) (20B) (15C) Mega Flip past Gap, Boss Key Skip with Bomb Staircase + 2 Bomb Hovers + 2 Mega Flip, Kill Gyorg + 1/2 Heart damage from Gyorg, Get 5 Bombs from pot (17B) (12C) Get back to GBFF, Fairy Fountain Wrong Warp with new Strat, ISG-ISS up to Snowhead Temple, Blow up last Snowball while Sliding up to Temple (11B) (4C) Block Skip, Bomb Long Jump Strat with HISS from Bomb to blow up ice enemy, Scarecrow Song Skip, Beat Wizrobe with 2 Arrows and 2 Deku Sticks, Get Fire Arrows, Hookshot to Torch (7B) (4C) 3 Bomb Hover + 1 Bombchu Hover to Snowballs, Bomb + Fire Arrow + 1/2 damage from Bomb, Strategy to Blow Up Snowballs (3B) (3C) Mega Flip past Gap, Boss Key Skip, Kill Goth by ISS over to perfect shoot position (0B) (0C) Get 5 Bombs from plant, Warp to CT, Buy 20 Chus + 10 Bombs, Warp to Ikana, Pull out Bomb while walking to plant, Get 5 Bombs, ISS up to Stone Tower (19B) (20C) Climb Stone Tower with Mega Flips, enter ST (9B) (13C) Bomb Staircase + Sidehop strategy past Sun Block, Get small key and minimize Magic Meter, so you can only use 4 Fire Arrows anymore (7B) (9C) Bomb Staircase + Zora Grab Trick past Sun Block, Get 10 Bombs from enemys + 3/4 Heart Damage from enemy, Recoil Flips in Updraft Room, Kill Garo's Master with 2 Deku Sticks and 3 jumpslashes, Death Warp (12B) (6C) Play SoS, Inverted Stone Tower with Mega Flip, Bomb Long Jump past first room, Boss Key Skip, Kill Twimmold with Fire Arrow Strat (5B) (1C) Warp to CT, Use new strat for Clock Tower early, SS to Kid, Kick ass of Majora's Mask, EPIC WIN (1B) (0C)

Posted: 4/8/2009 10:22 PM

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MrGrunz

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hmm, there's that deku stick mistake in the route and you forgot to add one improvement. ok, improvement: get 10 bombs before zora pots game and use the extra bombs for bomb long jump room strat and blowing up the last snowball while sliding up to snowhead the 1/2 damage from the bridge room also allows you to skip 1/2 damage from the gyorg fight, what could speed that battle up and is the SS over to epona needed or can you simply sidehop? if sidehopping is too slow, use HISS from alien this could skip the extra bomb drop before the pots game, but it seems that the bomb drop saves more time, then it actually costs even if we get the bomb drop, you should use HISS from alien, if possible, because it's so damn cool we have only 4 deku sticks, so you have to decide, which battle costs more time, if you doesn't use a deku stick. all I can say is, that garo's master only needs 3 deku sticks and 1 jumpslash, so you just have to decide, where to use the left stick. I also have a great idea for the bridge room! if we use bomb long jump, place a bomb next to the ice enemy and when you move away, the bomb explodes, so roll away after placing bomb and do a HISS from it :D this would be way to awesome, if it turns out to be possible and faster

Posted: 4/8/2009 12:59 PM

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MrGrunz

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bombs don't do as much damage like a sword, deku stick or bow, so how should this be useful? OoT is also really limited with the number of bombs, so this shouldn't be really helpful for boss battles

Posted: 4/7/2009 11:31 PM

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MrGrunz

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the good thing is, that the multiple hits thing only works in OoT, so it can't change the route, in which we spend so much time already we don't use any bombs during boss battles and bombs doesn't make much damage, so I can't see any uses for it

Posted: 4/7/2009 10:10 PM

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MrGrunz

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I'm trying to TAS the milk road access at the moment and it isn't possible to slide over the grass and collect bombs without stopping the slide I'll see, what a normal ESS does

Posted: 4/7/2009 9:46 PM

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MrGrunz

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we get no bomb drops at our first trips to south bay and on our second trip we get 2 bomb drops from the stones, which are directly on our way over to the pots, so doing it like this should save 3 seconds or something ;)

Posted: 4/7/2009 8:35 PM

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MrGrunz

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hmm, comicalflop, don't say something like that we often thought, that things are impossible, but then finally, they turn out to be possible ;) just have a look on what happened to MM within the last 2 month? I read comments from back in 2007, where a lot of people said, that OoT is broken to its limits

Posted: 4/7/2009 8:32 PM

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MrGrunz

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we know that in the SDA irc for a long time already the only useful place for this are death warps. it can't speed up a ESS or something, because the Hyper infinite superslide uses the knockback speed from the bomb and this is the maximum speed we can gain from damage ;) it also works only in OoT and doesn't requier ocarina. you can do it with a lot of things, like zelda's letter etc. just to prove, that we really know it for a while already ;)

Posted: 4/7/2009 6:26 PM

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MrGrunz

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hmm, but it shouldn't change our bomb drops after GBT, we should simply swim over to the fountain and not do any warps the reason, why I want to do zora pots game before GBT are those 2 bomb drops from the stone ;) one rock is directly on the way to the pots. we won't get this rock on our first trip to the fountain. even if we can't use infinite deku sticks, it should be still faster to beat wizrobe without deku sticks and use GB fountain to snowhead. the stones doesn't drop anything, sadly :( so the changes to the old route are: bomb drop from stone on the first trip to the GB fountain, 2x bomb drop on the way to zora pots game before GBT, GB fountain used twice, megaflip at rahcn access edit: I've just noticed, that we can't cut the grass while pulling out a bomb and sliding with ISG, so we would have to get all the 4 bomb drops from the last few bushes. I'll see, if we can get 4 bomb drops and 20 rupees while sliding through them. if we can't manipulate the red rupee, we simply get it from the chest next to one zora egg. edit 2: can you explain the deku stick thing in german to me? and do you have ICQ? then we could finish the route there edit 3: I have the solution for our milk road access problem. we don't get the extra bomb drop on the way to the first fountain, we simply do it like this: ISG-ISS, get 15 bombs from first bushes, mega flip from enemy, ISS over to bush, get 10 bombs and 20 rupees

Posted: 4/7/2009 5:26 PM

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MrGrunz

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it's better to do the zora pots game on the way to GBT, I think getting the bombs after GBT still takes 2 seconds and those 2 seconds would be completely eliminated. If I'm right, we can simply swim out of the area, so it warps us back to the beach maybe we should play our zora pots game at this point :/

Posted: 4/7/2009 12:17 PM

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MrGrunz

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hmm, hmm, skipping bomb drops. I don't think, that this is possible. we go shopping only one time after takkuri and then we only need 10 bombs and we have the rupees for those 10 bombs I have a nice idea to improve our route ;) why not go to the GB fountain again after beating GBT and do FFWW backwards to snowhead? then the bomb drop after GBT costs no time anymore and it would skip one SoS. we wouldn't able to get the 2 deku sticks anymore, so this should only work, if the infinite deku stick idea would work can you tell me, what you did in your testings for this trick? another bomb drop we could get would be the stone before flying to zora fountain the first time. my idea didn't work, btw. I'll try to save one bomb at the woodfall boss key skip and if this turns out to be impossible, we'll get those 5 bombs from the stone

Posted: 4/7/2009 11:45 AM
(Edited: 4/7/2009 12:11 PM)

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MrGrunz

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takuri is slower, it takes years to kill him and the zora games gives us a convenient bomb drop I have a nice strategy over to the milk road. it should work without that bomb, but it would only work, if we could get 20 bombs while sliding through the bushes ;) I'll try to manipulate 20 bombs and 20 rupees out of the bushes, hopefully it will work tell me how the infinite deku stick trick works or what you did, then I'll test it edit: how are we exactly going to get those 10 rupees from the lost woods? another thing we could do would be to get 10 bombs before the pots game, so we could blow up the last snowball while sliding up to snowhead temple, what should save some time and maybe we could skip th ikana bomb drop as well I included those 10 rupees in the route already, because we need them to have 80 rupees, so we can buy 20 chus, but I still need to know, how we're going to get them

Posted: 4/7/2009 9:26 AM

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MrGrunz

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1) nope, it's from one single plant 2) they do 3/4 damage, when you hit them and they explode

Posted: 4/7/2009 12:27 AM

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MrGrunz

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Here's the final route with a Death Warp out of Stone Tower: First Cycle 200 Rupees Second Cycle SoDT when you are 9 and a half in-game hours away from the Ranch houses Hit CT Owl, Withdraw 200R, Buy Bomb Bag + 20 Chus (70R) (20B) (20C) ISG-ISS to Fence, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Hover over Fence with Bomb and Chu, SS to GB (17B) (19C) ISS to Water, Hit Owl, Get Zora Mask, Leaver Slide to South Bay (16B) (19C) Flying Zora to Fountain, Blow up Rock with Chu, New Fairy Fountain Strat (12B) (10C) SS to Owl, Hit Owl, 5 Bombs from Plant, Recoil Flip with Bomb down to River, Swim to Swamp, Go to Lost Woods, Get 10 Rupees, ISS from Bombchu, Get Bottle (15B) (9C) ISS to Octo, Sidehops to Deku Palace, ISG-ISS past Deku Guards, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, Use old Zora Jump Strat, Get Sonata + SoS (11B) (9C) Get 3 Deku sticks from Dekus and 1 Deku Stick from pot on the way to Woodfall Temple, Enter Temple Mega Flips past Gap, Kill Lizarfos with Jumpslash Strat, Get Bow (9B) (8C) Recoil Flip to get OoB, 8 Mega Flips, Kill Odolwa (1B) (0C) Warp to CT, Buy 20 Chus, Leave to GB (0R) (1B) (20C) ISG-ISS to bush, Get 15 Bombs, Jump down ledge, ISS to other Bush, Get 10 Bombs + 20 Rupees, ISG-ISS to Rock, Pull out Bomb while Sliding, 3 Bombchu Hovers, SS to Epona, Get Bottle (20R) (17B) (17C) Warp to GB, Swim to Pirate's Fortress, Mega Flip past Gap, Get Hookshot, Zora Egg, Recoil Flip with Bomb to second Zora Egg, Deposit Eggs (14B) (16C) Back to Pirate's Fortress, Skip Pirate Battle with 4 Bomb Hovers + 2 Mega Flips, Skip second Pirate Battle with Recoil Flip from Bomb, Deposit Eggs, Get rest of Zora Eggs, Learn NWBN (7B) (15C) Play Zora Pots Game one time + get 5 Bombs from Stone + get 1/4 heart damage from leaves, Go to South Bay Owl, Get 5 Bombs, Enter GBT (110R) (17B) (15C) Mega Flip past Gap, Boss Key Skip with Bomb Staircase + 2 Bomb Hovers + 2 Mega Flip, Kill Gyorg + 1 Heart damage from Gyorg, Get 5 Bombs from pot (14B) (12C) Warp to Woodfall, Get 1 deku Stick from pot + 1 Deku Stick from Deku, Fairy Fountain Wrong Warp with new Strat, ISG-ISS up to Snowhead Temple (9B) (4C) Block Skip, Azorae's Bridge Room Strat, Scarecrow Song Skip, Beat Wizrobe with 2 Arrows and 2 Deku Sticks, Get Fire Arrows, Hookshot to Torch (7B) (4C) 3 Bomb Hover + 1 Bombchu Hover to Snowballs, Bomb + Fire Arrow + 1/2 damage from Bomb, Strategy to Blow Up Snowballs (3B) (3C) Mega Flip past Gap, Boss Key Skip, Kill Goth by ISS over to perfect shoot position (0B) (0C) Get 5 Bombs from plant, Warp to CT, Buy 20 Chus + 10 Bombs, Warp to Ikana, Pull out Bomb while walking to plant, Get 5 Bombs, ISS up to Stone Tower (19B) (20C) Climb Stone Tower with Mega Flips, enter ST (9B) (13C) Bomb Staircase + Sidehop strategy past Sun Block, Get small key and minimize Magic Meter, so you can only use 4 Fire Arrows anymore (7B) (9C) Bomb Staircase + Zora Grab Trick past Sun Block, Get 10 Bombs from enemys + 3/4 Heart Damage from enemy, Recoil Flips in Updraft Room, Kill Garo's Master with 4 Deku Sticks, Death Warp (12B) (6C) Play SoS, Inverted Stone Tower with Mega Flip, Bomb Long Jump past first room, Boss Key Skip, Kill Twimmold with Fire Arrow Strat (5B) (1C) Warp to CT, Use new strat for Clock Tower early, SS to Kid, Kick ass of Majora's Mask, EPIC WIN (1B) (0C) Now get da shit started, SL =D

Posted: 4/6/2009 10:52 PM

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MrGrunz

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ok, for a normal SS you roll 37 frames before the explosion and for a ISS you roll 36 frames before the explosion, so ISing adds 1 frame more backwalking, so it is faster. But ISSing changes your camera angle, so this one frame should be saved by the advantage of SS, that it keeps your camera angle. That means, that normal Superslide are your best friend for sliding in a direct line ;) So if you want to slide in a direct line: Superslide > Hyper Infinite Superslide

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