I think goofydylan8's proposal is the one we should actually be discussing, as it is the only one with a real chance of being implemented.
That said, I do think it would be fine to host movies of every port of every game, including autoscrollers (which can be obsoleted based on entertainment). I don't know about hacks; certainly there needs to be a notability threshold for hacks to prevent the abuse jlun2 describes.
I don't think very many other people agree with me about this, though, so I strongly support the 'remove the 'uninteresting gameplay' restriction' movement, and only academically wish that the 'bad game choice' restriction could be abolished entirely.
Also, FWIW, I'm kind of annoyed at DarkKobold proclaiming as fact that the x-men run wasn't entertaining when a number of us posted in the submission thread saying that we really liked it. To be very clear: runs like that add a lot more value to this site for me than almost any run >2 hours. If I were the sole judge, and I judged only on what I personally liked watching, we wouldn't have any >2 hour runs. Luckily, I'm not, and if I were, I wouldn't be that selfish.
A warb degombs the brangy. Your gitch zanks and leils the warb.
I agree 100% that bad game choice shouldn't be a reason for rejection. The idea of an archive of the current best run of as many games as possible appeals greatly. Stars etc guide those seeking entertainment just fine.
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Nicos: I don't entirely understand what feos meant by quoting that line, but I don't think he was trying to make fun of your English. Rather, I think he mistook your post for a joke (I did too) because accidentally voting yes before watching a run (especially one as likely to be published as this one) is not a very bad thing.
The voting system has no official weight anyway, it's just for gauging audience reaction, and no one would be upset about a single mistaken vote. If you accidentally voted No on a run it would be nice to mention it in a comment though.
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Oh my god oh my god oh my god I had no idea this was coming
This is my favorite Zelda game of all time, I am so excited holy crap!
EDIT: Could only watch 30:00 for now, will finish tomorrow. Amazing so far. How do you do the thing around 8:00 after beating the boss where Link glides?
EDIT: Finished. Sooo good!
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You still have to get a star? Psh, amateurs! :P
Waiting for encode, but I expect to be delighted and to vote yes.
EDIT: Encode watched; yes voted. I was every bit as surprised and happy as I expected.
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First of all, HappyLee: Great work as always :)
Second, for people concerned about console verification:
I know we all like to live in our nice little fantasy world where emulation is perfect and a TAS is a true representation of how fast it is possible to "actually beat the game", but as has been gone over a million times that's just not what we actually do here.
Console verification is *awesome*, don't get me wrong. But there is only one bridge between TAS world and console world, and that is the list of accepted emulators. Right now, the new PPU isn't ready for prime time. Therefore, until it is, we are obligated to treat the currently accepted emulator as canonical, and to respect the achievements of people like HappyLee who have done exactly the thing we ask them to do: produce the best possible movie on the accepted emulator.
When the time comes to transition to the new PPU (which, by the way, is going to be better, but never perfect, or at least certainly never provably perfect, since I doubt we can even prove the determinism of an original NES across production runs, temperatures, ages, etc) we will have to make a decision about obsoletion, but I don't think it's very hard. Imo it should work like this:
* Existing runs hosted until they are replaced.
* No new old PPU runs accepted, even improvements.
* New PPU runs automatically obsolete old PPU runs, even if they are slower. (They will of course still be judged by the community's rigorous standards before acceptance).
There are some other reasonable possibilities too; just as long as it is clearly spelled out on the rules page, there should be no problem.[/i]
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I don't play many long JRPGS, and I often don't even watch much of these runs, but I love reading detailed submission texts like this!
Thanks Touch-me for this wonderfully detailed explanation, and thanks for having the patience to get it into such good English.
Edit: Watching the encode, and damn if that's not the classiest commentary/RAM value display format I've ever seen! And those graphs! *swoon*
If anyone's curious, the really crazy stuff starts around 42:20.
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I watched the whole thing and I loved every second. The backgrounds were remarkably varied and interesting, seeing how you killed player 2 each time was cute, the player's speed changes drastically and strangely, it was short and demonstrated a random, bizarre old game quite well.
Sorry you've met such a wall of negativity :( I hope this gets published anyway, and even if it doesn't, I hope you keep up the good work.
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I've never seen a movie where all three options were in such a dead heat! (Currently stands at 7/7/6).
I voted yes, because I'm a notorious inclusionist. This is a good run of a game many people are interested in; I wasn't blown away by watching it but it's very short and it gave me a feel for an interesting game I knew nothing about, and it costs us very little to host it.
And who knows, perhaps some game-breaking glitch awaits a future researcher, and they will be significantly more motivated to find it if the game wasn't already rejected.
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These maps are beautiful. I love you.
EDIT: For anyone who doesn't feel like poring over all 14 of these, Hot Crater 1, Hot Crater 2, Sky Canyon 2, and Techno Base 1 are the awesomest.
A warb degombs the brangy. Your gitch zanks and leils the warb.
Those stun bug videos are amazing.
I agree with only counting "original" exits.
I'm interested in hearing more about the choice not to abuse death -- death abuse is usually fine, so it seems wrong to me on the surface, but I don't really understand all the intricacies.
A warb degombs the brangy. Your gitch zanks and leils the warb.
Raku: I'm sincerely impressed! Thanks for putting in the effort. TASing is hard, and will take a lot more patience and re-trying things than typing those sentences did, but if you stick with it, I'm sure one day you'll get an awesome video published on this site!
Welcome aboard! ^__^
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Am I being too cynical because I have this nagging feeling that makes me doubt the veracity of the OP?
No, I think you're not being cynical enough -- it's totally reasonable for internet trolls to go overboard with this kind of thing, but it's /really/ a sign of how bad things are when this is how the average 10 year old learns to interact online.
RakuRocRex wrote:
i liek simpel words
Raku: Simple words are fine, but it's still important to use them with care. You'll find it much easier to get what you want both here at TASVideos and in the wider world.
Since you hate your English class, I was going to suggest you check out Khan Academy, but I was sad to learn that they don't yet provide videos about English grammar (though they're working on it.) Still, if you hate math class too, take a look.
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Awesome! Keep it up!
One question: why no bat damage boost around 3:35? It could of course just be because you need the extra half heart later in the run, since we don't see you reset after that point in the WIP, but I'm curious since it seemed like such a good place for it.
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This is very nice! At first I thought the ladder-blinks might be encoding artifacts ^_^
I wish some of the moving platforms play-around section had been sync'd to the music though! It was okay, but it felt like you just did each thing once, rather than having a cool plan.
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This is really good! I'm sorry I missed it when it was on the workbench.
The rockety sections are all really cool, and I also really like the bit with the three <-> shooty things on the stairs, where you jump into the middle of them as they split.
In the dark foresty level, do you jump a lot to confuse the bats, or because the ground is different there and jumping is faster?
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Technically speaking, the easiest way to fix this situation of "what should or shouldn't be labeled" is to force a label for every game with more than one category.
This is pretty darn reasonable.
Potato Handle wrote:
Maybe a slight redesign (Easier said than done, I know.) would be appropriate then?
I think you're exaggerating the size of the problem. No good runs on the table right now are in danger of rejection, nor are runs for movies with multiple categories hard to find.
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What's wrong with SDA's method of differentiating these kinds of runs? The term "(With large skip glitches)" is appended to their speedrun titles with, well, with large skip glitches.
What's wrong with it is that (some of us think) this site should be primarily about pushing games to their absolute limit, no matter what. There's plenty of room for people to see entertaining runs with objectives that show more varied gameplay, of course, but the run that a new user first sees when searching for a game should be the absolute fastest, most broken thing we have to offer, and if one branch is going to receive most of the frame-warring attention, it should usually be that one.
Other people obviously disagree, which is why there's all this brouhaha. In the end, it doesn't matter a huge amount -- everyone's runs can on the site, it's just a small matter of labeling. But it does feel unfair for the fastest run of a game on a site supposedly dedicated to, to quote the submission rules, "break[ing] all existing records" not to be displayed most prominently.
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No one (I don't think?) wants to eliminate the longer runs. The idea is to have the "less-glitched" runs be the ones that get a special category, while the absolute fastest run is labeled any%. After all, the name does imply at any percent of the game's objectives may be completed before reaching the end state.
So we can have a "beats Bowser" run and a "beats Ganondorf" run or whatever. The default, any% category should go to the absolute fastest run.
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While I will not watch this run, I see no reason for it not to be published if it is of the technical quality everyone seems to agree it is.
A quick perusal of the submission guidelines shows nothing about disallowing similar games. The movie on it's own is presumably just as entertaining as the existing warpless run.
The mere fact that most TASvideos regulars don't want to watch this run shouldn't exclude it from publication -- some people out there played this game a lot, and NES Mario Bros. very little or not at all, and they want to see the game they're more familiar with utterly destroyed. So why not host this run for them?
TheKDX7 has done good work that makes the site more complete, and I think people are jumping to conclusions based on their own preferences, and not on what is best for the site.
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