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Finally got around to watching the whole run. It's excellent, and i voted yes, but i do think that if anyone ever decides to improve this, some of the goals should be reconsidered.
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DJWebb32 wrote:
rog wrote:
A RUN ON THE JAPANESE ROM OF THIS GAME HAS ALREADY BEEN ACCEPTED ON THIS SITE
That isn't really the same situation.
While i think the rule is silly, and should be abolished altogether, if only to encourage more runs done by Japanese TASers, it's silly to think Abeshi's run sets a precedent here. The situation was entirely different.
a few things:
if you want to be nit-picky about versions of games you accept, but then accept a violation of this, and then get nit-picky about the situations in which you accept said violation, you see where this could go...
and also, while i was trying to be pretty objective in my last post, my thing is speed is speed so what ever you can do to be faster is better and should be approved. discriminating between versions is like the olympics saying "we'll allow all races of people to compete, but we'll adjust scores accordingly (think track & field)"
The rules allow any version to be used, it simply favors the U version, unless there is a good reason to use a different one, in which case the best version should always be used.
I agree with you though. I think it's an archaic rule and should have been abandoned long ago.
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Yeah, it should be pretty obvious to anyone who has ever tried hovering in oot why it wouldn't be done if at all possible to avoid it. It's not technically impossible, but it's not realistic either.
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A RUN ON THE JAPANESE ROM OF THIS GAME HAS ALREADY BEEN ACCEPTED ON THIS SITE
That isn't really the same situation. Abeshi used the J rom because he is japanese. He did not even intend to submit the run here, until someone saw his run, and encouraged him to do so. The rules state that any version can be used, as long as there is a good reason for using anything other than the U rom. It specifically states that text differences are not a valid reason. It does not say that using a rom that you and your audience will be familiar with is a bad reason.
While i think the rule is silly, and should be abolished altogether, if only to encourage more runs done by Japanese TASers, it's silly to think Abeshi's run sets a precedent here. The situation was entirely different.
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mapler90210 wrote:
No memory card means no delay from the game trying to save. It also means we don't go insane TASing this game since we would have to delete the memory card file every time we play the movie back. Dolphin is slow enough without having to do things before we can even play the file.
Obviously it's slower here, but if it weren't, you could easily just make a .bat file to delete it if you needed to.
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Bobo the King wrote:
Not that I believe this will further the discussion dramatically, but what would be the most entertaining?
To do the run using WW, which requires using deku stick as adult.
However, doing that route with the n64 version or the wii/gc versions would be equally entertaining.
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Mitjitsu wrote:
Here's the thing, we all accept that the WW glitch with FW isn't possible to do on a N64, because it crashes the game.
It's using deku stick as adult that crashes it, not WW. WW works fine on console. However, without being able to use deku stick, i believe the previous rba route was faster.
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at 1:05 in the first level, you jump over a ring monitor, and then immediately spin dash. Was actually faster than just spin dashing through the monitor?
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Twelvepack wrote:
So let me get this straight--
You want a run to be accepted that violates the rules of this site, and no one can even say for sure what time would be required of a (English) run that does follow the rules to be faster than it? (excluding text differences)
It's approximately 12 minutes. If another run was done on the U rom that was within a minute of that, it can be timed out exactly when that happens. Until then, it's a huge waste of time to count every single frame, since all of the oot speedrunners use the J rom now anyway.
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There comes a point where very minor inaccuracies have to be accepted just so we can get runs up here
This isn't a minor inaccuracy, and it is not unavoidable.
What is a emulation inaccuracy for N64 is actually an accuracy for Wii or GC version
Right, so if you want to tas the wii or gc version, then you can use the B stick.
Rename Mupen to VC/GC/Wii emulator if you care that much other semantics, and publish the code as a emulator that was trying to be a VC/GC/Wii emulator.
It's not about semantics. Being able to use a B stick without the game crashing is an emulation glitch. Actually doing so, is cheating. Mupen does not, and cannot emulate the wii version, and pretending it can is a lie.
Anyway, mods locked the other thread because they obviously wanted this discussion to end, so this will be my last post on the subject. If for whatever reason you want to continue this, pm me, and we can repeat the same arguments over and over again some more.
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I want to be able to understand what is happening in them.
That's impossible, regardless of what language it is played in.
I have not noticed anyone saying that they would be inconvenienced or discontented by the run being in English instead of Japanese
You are not paying attention then. Plenty of people have said this. The english version is 12 minutes longer. That's 12 more minutes spent watching with exactly the same gameplay. Personally, i find that extremely inconvenient.
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My last boss 5 was also pretty bad :(
Improved it by 2,754 frames, for the total time of 94.6 seconds on the boss. This is also the second boss to be completely unimprovable, by even a single frame, before its final hp bar.
Along with 1976 frames saved getting to the boss (almost all of which was the result of better luck manipulation), i'm now ahead of my last run by a total of 12,136 frames (3:22.26)
Link to video
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Slowking wrote:
rog wrote:
Swordless Link wrote:
BA and RBA are banned in this category (as is wrong warping as that involves BA). That's just how we define it. The reasoning behind it is that RBA can be used to skip basically everything shown in this run, so it would be arbitrary if we allowed RBA in it.
Not allowing ba/rba is still entirely arbitrary. You could easily use rba and still do everything that is required. The only reason it's not allowed is because that's what the community decided.
Yeah shit is arbitrary. This category has had the same arbitrary rules for 6 years now. Get over it.
I don't have a problem with it. I think it'd still be quite interesting with rba, but i like the category just fine as is. My point was simply that he said " it would be arbitrary if we allowed RBA", whereas it's really completely arbitrary either way.
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A number of people seem to be having that issue actually. I posted a build of more-save-fixes that i compiled above, which should work fine, though that won't have the new tas input.
edit: links updated in OP, see the main dolphin thread. This should fix that crash, but i make no promises.
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Swordless Link wrote:
BA and RBA are banned in this category (as is wrong warping as that involves BA). That's just how we define it. The reasoning behind it is that RBA can be used to skip basically everything shown in this run, so it would be arbitrary if we allowed RBA in it.
Not allowing ba/rba is still entirely arbitrary. You could easily use rba and still do everything that is required. The only reason it's not allowed is because that's what the community decided.
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Idle skipping quite often will work just fine, but not always. If you really want to, you can use it, and just deal with any desyncs, but imo, it's not worth it.
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Obviously the most accurate one should always be used. As far as i know, that would be jabo. If another was more accurate overall, but still allowed B stick to be used without crashing, then it could be used instead, but actually using the B stick would still not be allowed.
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If you cannot play it directly, then it's obviously not an n64 game. If it's not an n64 game, then it obviously isn't the same game.
Removing data from a rom dump and pretending it is the same game is absurd.
