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Posted: 1/12/2012 2:15 AM

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Reeve

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lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:

For instance will Spazer be delayed or grabbed normally on route?

Delaying Spazer is faster due to the use of Hi-Jump Boots and Speed Booster, but i don't know how much it would save. If less than half second and if that wrap around in WS prove to be faster than that and only possible with Spazer, it would justify an earlier spazer.

lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:

Is there going to be any Start Menus to save In-Game Time?

It will, for performing the Stand-up glitch in Mother Brain. I don't remember any other place that a pause menu is needed. It would if you had to disable something like ice for example, but as it's not going to be collected earlier...

Posted: 1/12/2012 12:46 AM

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Reeve

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I've been thinking, and i know you guys too, that wave beam and charge beam have to be taken into account not only in room crossing, but for refill too. The wave beam makes much easier to refil Samus' ammunition and getting some suppers before fighting GT will make his fight much faster, not only because you will have a more powerfull beam with the addition of Wave Beam and that will probably save time on GT too and also, not having to refill the supers on his fight or at least having to refill less supers will save some time too. I Think some planning could be made to try and get as much supers as possible before GT and maybe there wouldn't have the need to delay his death. The Wrap Around shot in WS attic room is a good example, as hero said, a lot of ammo is saved there if you don't have to clean it twice and using the wrap around is still faster. Cp used 6 supers in that room, 2 in the first time and 4 in the second, it seemed to me that most of them can be avoided with the wrap around. Also, landing a power bomb as done in the any% run can make some supers drops apear, so it would still help Samus in this. It seems to me that some other drops can be collected in pink Brinstar too.

Posted: 1/11/2012 6:46 PM

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Reeve

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I think this wrap around is meant to be used for the grapple beam exit that hero posted before. Of course it really seems it can be used to save time by shooting the last enemies from far distance, but i recal hero saying that the exit door would have to be openned for the grapple boost trick to work too.

Posted: 1/11/2012 9:50 AM

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Reeve

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lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:

Can you find that video Reeve? Because I never heard of anything like that before.

I couldn't find it yet, but i saw it first on youtube, then when i mentioned it on m2k2 (don't remember in which thread) somebody found another video with other grey doors beeing openned. The problem is, i think it's needed the VAR beam for it to work or something like that, so it wouldn't be useful in a new 100% run.

lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:

Did anyone test if a Wrap Around Glitch is possible above the ship in the ET Room?

I didn't.

lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:

Also nobody ever answered me before but, has a Wrap Around on a left door been demonstrated before? My guess is no but, I could be wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong. If it is possible I wonder what special conditions would have to be met in order to do it?

I never saw such a thing before, i just brought that quote from Games Resources page cause i found it interesting. Btw, I had an idea that could "maybe" be faster for that gravity statue room, after the chozo releases Samus, mainly if you guys plan using that shot to destroy the blocks on the right. The mechanics of the idea work very well, i just don't know if it's faster or not. After the chozo releases Samus, quickly unmorph and open the door in the left and quickly turn around before reaching the crumble block. Jump as soon as Samus touches the crumble block to do the kago trick on the Statue. After the kago, land a bomb in the very ledge of the breakeable block on the ground, so Samus will still be inside the statue. Then quickly unmorph, run to the right to shoot the blocks and return to the small passage. Edit:

lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:

Did anyone test if a Wrap Around Glitch is possible above the ship in the ET Room?

Wait... do you mean... to enter the Energy Tank room??? Well, if it is, that door is a pinky door and wrap around doesn't work. Also, did anyone test that strategy for the lighters bugs with the Energy Tank, the one to damage boost from one of the lighters to get to the E.T. platform? Edit 2: Here is the wrap around shot for Attic room.

Posted: 1/11/2012 5:35 AM

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Reeve

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Another room that could save time with a wrap around in the left door is the room right after Ridley's room. So you could travel with the Shinespark through the two rooms and would only stop in the door leading to the Pirates. Of course that it would only be possible if Shinespark lasts till the wrap around anyway. Edit: I saw some videos in youtube some time ago showing people glitching through grey doors mainly in Torian. Does anyone know anything about it? Is there a safe way to glitch through grey doors?

Posted: 1/11/2012 4:19 AM
(Edited: 1/11/2012 4:31 AM)

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Reeve

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Here is one spot where you can break the two first blocks behind the gravity chozo statue. I used the charged beam for this. Edit: Also, one wrap around in a left door that could be usefull is in WS, in the left Super Missile Pack room, so you could open the door offscreen from kinda next to the bottom door, a little to the right of it, and mockball full speed through the door to the next room.

Posted: 1/11/2012 12:36 AM

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Reeve

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I think it's possible to save some frames more with that WS Walljump in the Spiked platforms room, take a look at this. The smv is not optimized and i don't land in the right spot in the next room, but anyway, it's just the idea. Also, in the resources page of the site there is this:

Game Resources wrote:

Wrapping beam shots around This generally does not work firing left to open a door on the right, but under extremely specific circumstances it might be possible.

Have anyone ever found a door in the left that can open another one in the right???

Posted: 1/10/2012 9:23 PM

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Reeve

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lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:

Yea I'm not really sure where you where going with that.

I was just curious, cause i thought there was no way to shinespark through that room without using hero's idea.

lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:

I have an idea actually on what Reeve posted before. Instead of Blue Balling through the blocks in Red Brinstar after the Noob Bridge. Can you Super Short Charge from the edge of that door and get a charge and break the blocks at the same time like the Energy Tank room in Crateria above the ship and if its possible would it be faster?

Do you mean to charge the mentioned shinespark, go down, land the PB and wait for the block to be destroyed while Samus is still shinning and then go through the door without the need of charging the shinespark with the speed keeping trick? If so, it's not possible at all. As i said, it takes almost 3 seconds just to fall and after placing the PB it still takes around two seconds to break the blocks or more, so once you reacch the bottom, you'll have less then one second to release the shinespark and still have to wait for the PB to be activated for more than two seconds, so the charged shinespark will fade away unfortunatelly.

Posted: 1/10/2012 9:16 PM

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Reeve

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X2poet wrote:

I'd like to challenge a 4-player run for this game.

There's a good realtime four players run i watched on youtube, maybe there's something you can use. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EacW4Cp5t8c

Posted: 1/10/2012 4:06 PM

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Reeve

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lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:

I don't understand why you think its slow because you have to wait for those blocks to be destroyed no matter what. Also you won't have Screw Attack at the time because in a new 100% run you would go early X-Ray. Plus the Speed Preservation Technique (Speed Keeping) will be used to invoke a Shine Spark.

I think there's a missunderstanding. What i said it was slower was the smv i posted, cause even though you have to wait for the PB to clean the way, the time lost jumping up to charge the shinespark and then jumping down again takes too much time (i think around 6 seconds just for the trip up and down, not counting the time to charge the shinespark.

Posted: 1/9/2012 7:55 PM

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Reeve

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Cpadolf wrote:

Shinesparking Ridley does nothing, and you don't seem to get a free shinespark if you get grabbed by him during a CF.

That's bad news. Anyway, i found that my idea would probably be unfeasible.

Cpadolf wrote:

WS Shinespark can probably save time, if you have the energy for it.

Depending on how far are the enemies the shinespark will kill, maybe you can get some drops with a turn around and the grapple.

Cpadolf wrote:

Finally found a spot that works. Because of how you have to set it up it's not that much faster, but it's something at least. It doesn't look like there's a lower position that will work. The only lower one I found was all the way down at the spikes, but you have to blow the blocks up with a bomb first to reach them, or charge up a bluesuit, but both of those are definitely slower. Smv

That's really nice. Also, it's kinda strange that i thought using this strat would be 10 frames faster and you get to the top 10 frames faster. Edit: In the room with lighter bugs and the Energy Tank in LN, try this and see if it's faster: Make Samus go a little bit to the right after passing the "Claws of Ridley" using an unmorph mommentum or a walljump in the middle claw, in a way that you can damage boost from the below lighter and land in the Energy Tank Platform, then get the Energy Tank with a Spin jump to turn Samus vulnerable again and damage boost from the ligher straight to the platform in the left, then jump up to the claws. Edit 2: It's a shame that the Power Bomb takes so many frames to destroy the blocks leading to the pre-X-Ray room. Also, i wonder if it wouldn't be faster, doing this instead of after the Brinstar Clean up... it seems slower by visual.

Posted: 1/9/2012 6:52 AM

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Reeve

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Regarding that new route i suggested, going straight down to X-Ray and Maridia after WS, i did some calculations and it can't be faster. If my calculations are correct, If cpadolf, in his run, have been taken that route, but not counting the optimizations using the new equipments, the run would have been around 20 seconds slower. I don't think the new equipments would save that much only in the Brinstar clean up. Edit: Btw, nice idea abou the Wallcrawler stuff, hero. If it works, you could get a damage that sends you to the bottom of the area, where there is a red pirate. Also, very nice Pink Brinstar smv, cpadolf! Edit 2: Cp, it's possible to activate the gate shooting up very close to the wall, so what about shooting up before walljumping, or shoot up earlier after a walljump? Edit 3: This idea was posted by Quietus on m2k2 for realtime runners some time ago, and it could be tested to see if it saves any frame, given that health management won't be a problem in WS, it could be useful. After collecting the Missile pack in the far left of the ship (Crateria area, the Missile below a Super Missile block and right above the door to WS lake), go up as usuall, but before entering the ball hole, charge a shinespark, then enter the hole, and shinespark right after leaving the small passage, going over the small lakes in the next room. I did a small test and the spark fades right when Samus unmorph, but it was not optimized, mainly the bomb to push Samus out of the hole, so i'd say it's possible even if it's not worth. Problem is you loose the oportunity to collect some drops for the Brinstar clean up, but judging the recent strategies and discoveries, it might not be hard to refill some drops later. Also, regarding the door you're going through with the shinespark, it's possible to open it from above it shooting with the wave beam as shown in this smv. Btw, why the f*ck there's a noise of the door opening when i shoot it again, if it's already openned??? Edit 4: It might be just equally fast anyway, but, when going for the last Reserve Tank in Northwest of bubble room, it's possible to jump a little bit over the cacti, shoot a Super in the door and damage boost on the cacti to land in the very ledge close to the door. Problem is you loose a Super drop, but it might be not that bad as you still have some rooms left to try and get other drops anyway. Also, if it's possible to open the green door without delaying Samus when you land in the ledge instead of shooting the super over the cacti, it could be faster because you could turn Samus back to the door with a spin jump before the damage boost instead of waiting for the turn around animation. Edit 5: Oh man, that idea hero posted about getting a Shinespark from Ridley should be tested to see if it really works or not. If Ridley really give Samus a free shinespark, i have an interesting idea. Edit 6: Btw, hero, that wallcrawler strat works very nicely! Only problem is it seems you have to unmorph to make him catch Samus, unless there's a way to delay samus in the small passage a little bit till the wallcrawler catch her. Anyway, i did just a test to see if it would work or not and it worked. Take a look: Not Optimized smv

Posted: 1/9/2012 5:49 AM

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Reeve

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Didn''t understand... what do you mean? Are you trying too get a damage using the grapple instead of jumping? Wouldn't it be faster jumping, as you have to shoot the Eletric stuff with a Super and to make this you have to pass the ledge, so the jump just to break it will be near that eletric stuff?

Posted: 1/9/2012 5:11 AM

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Reeve

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Btw, did anyone tested the damage boost in Draygon's room? Is it slower?

Posted: 1/8/2012 11:05 PM

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Reeve

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Behemoth wrote:

It's a really good idea Reeve, but I doubt that's faster at all. Maybe nearly the same at best. It probably takes 4 seconds getting up to the top of the main street after nabbing the missiles. Then you have the right hand then fall in the big grapple room. One thing it does counter is the small wall jump to the passage to grab the supers, but that looks like the only gain where the old route is faster still. Worth a test though to be sure. On a light note: What would be REALLY cool would be a way to break into the super missile cave from the main street where we can see it :P

Oh man, nice to see you around! Well, my hope here is that it would be possible to get to the door in the top a little bit faster than reaching the usual door, and also that reaching the ball passage to the Super doesn't take too much time going from the oposite side. Yeah, it would be cool if it was possible to get that missile, but as long as i can remember, the only way to glitch into a wall is with the grapling beam and you get stuck there and can only get out using the x-ray unfortunatelly.

Posted: 1/8/2012 2:37 AM

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Reeve

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Cpadolf wrote:

Yeah there's a practical limit. It's different depending on what kind it is, but IIRC a normal CWJ has a limit somewhere around 2.5px/frame (which is slightly faster than running speed without speedbooster). A door-CWJ should have a limit of twice that, unless I'm thinking wrong.

I imagined there would be a limit due to the WJ animation, if Samus is too fast, the CWJ animation apears, but too far from the wall for her to walljump. Btw, there should be a way to open the left passage of that big room with a Energy Tank with a wrap around when leaving Lower Norfair. So instead of running slow for the beam to open the door while the screen is scrolling, you could run in full speed, at least in the first time you visit that room. Edit: Oh man, i think this will work. After picking up the Space jump, leave the room and in the next room, jump, and shoot the eletric stuff right about the door with a super to break it, damage boost to land closer to the door and quickly jump up. Btw, is it possible to keep a blue ball without running speed in a ball hole just spring balling? And if it would, would the speed be too low or at least the same as rolling? Edit 2: I've been thinking about Maridia. Well, i don't know if it was tested before (probably), but what about, after the Maridia mainstreet missile, you go up instead of falling, then go for the Super Missile pack, fall going straigh to the Big Turtle room, and back. I don't know, it's just that it seems strange to me that after getting the Maridia mainstreet missile we fall for 3 seconds and then we have to climb again in the next room. If my calculations are correct, after getting the Mainstreet Missile, it takes 4sec and 10 frames to leave the room. So maybe it's possible to make it to the top of the room faster or at least equally fast to kinda avoid backtrack. Btw, in this route, when falling through the door leading to the Big Turtle room, it's possible to damage boost from the fish to land in the top. Maybe it's possible to get there with an unmorph mommentum, but i couldn't do it. Also, i realized that you have one more door transition, but if this route saves at least 1 second in-game time, iirc you guys would go for in-game time in a new 100% run, so i think it would be worth it, also showing a new route.

Posted: 1/8/2012 2:09 AM

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Reeve

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lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:

Speaking of Green Brinstar after the Pink Brinstar clean up. Instead of jumping and balling into the pipe to grab the Missile Pack. Would it be faster if possible to CWJ off the pipe below and mockball into that pipe? Also by doing that you can probably kill the enemy in the pipe below and grab a drop as you CWJ off the pipe.

Nice one, forensics! It's probably faster than the usual strategy. Edit: Really??? hum... that's a shame. So the best one is the one you used in your run, right? Edit 2: Damn yeah, because after the CWJ, the ceiling is too low and Samus would hit it and fall, not reaching the pipe. Btw, Cpadolf, is there a speed limit to do the CWJ?

Posted: 1/8/2012 12:13 AM

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Reeve

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Cpadolf wrote:

You can't reach the bridge with a door-CWJ without speedbooster. It can be done after the Brinstar cleanup though.

Oh that's a shame. At least it can be done later. What about the First Super Missile room? It seems the jump wouldn't make all the way down, right? due to the low door...

Posted: 1/7/2012 10:15 PM

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Reeve

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Regarding the Wave Beam route, i've been thinking about that while watching Cp's movie and couldn't help but think how easy could be to refill sometimes using the Wave Beam. For example, it would, as i said before and you guys are tired of knowing it, save time in the gate going to Crocomire's room, also, in Red Brinstar, going up to the elevator, Cp had to delay Samus to collect one Super drop, with the Wave Beam he could have shot the beam from the bottom and the again when reaching the platform, and then use the grapple while jumping up tne next platform to collect it without delay. Maybe the Wave Beam route wouldn't be that bad after all, if at least equally fast. Edit: Regarding the bomb spread in Draygon's room, Cp, drop it next to the door, of course, then jump in the eletric stuff and get a damage boost to go far enough to get the speed for the grapple. Edit 2: Considering the usual route for the First Super Missile room, after collecting the Missile pack under the bridge and comming up to the bridge again, isn't it possible to CWJ in the ledge of the bridge to go through the door and fall straight down to the bottom? Edit 3: In the Big room before the Noob Bridge, manipulate the small hopper in the way to drop one super missile, and use a CWJ in the door or in the ledge of the door, to reach the Noob Bridge, ignoring the first cacti in that room.

Posted: 1/7/2012 9:21 PM
(Edited: 1/7/2012 9:30 PM)

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Reeve

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hero of the day wrote:

I had the same idea here too. I think that it would be slower, mainly because you need to get so low to fire the super missile, that it would require you jump up again just to reach the grapple point. Might be worth timing it out though. Another thing that should be possible is doing a 'perfect' kraid kill using the PB wave combo. If you align the particles like what was done in the RBO run on Croco, it may be possible to have all 4 hit kraid during his first mouth opening. It would be the fastest way to kill him, without exception. Even the hyper beam couldn't do it in one hit :P

I suggested this before, but the issue is, first of all you wouldn't be abble to control the particles with all that damn rocks going to you, also, you have to hit kraid for him to open his mouth, so at most you could hit him with one particle for him to open his mouth and another three in his mouth. Shooting him will not help, because Samus takes much more time to make the particles to apear than just charging the beam.

Posted: 1/7/2012 9:00 PM

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Reeve

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I thought about something, basicaly the same principle of hero's idea for Draygon. After the Shinespark in the big mocktroid's room going for Draygon's lair, after the crash animation, try to open the green door and quickly grapple the last block, then enter the room in full speed making samus to reach the other side going for the Missile pack or at least the next grapple blocks or something like that.

Posted: 1/7/2012 8:20 PM

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Reeve

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Cpadolf wrote:

Hah, that's a pretty awesome idea. I made a quick test of it here, and it's about 45 frames faster ingame. Have to use a PB, with a regular bomb you don't get enough time to set up a good swing.

that was very cool!!! And that glitch that happened with another blue Samus on screen was nice. It's one second more of improvement, considering the WS strategy and this 45 frames. Very cool and one nice thing about it is that the improvement's are coming from good looking tricks which will make a new 100% run more entertaining.

Posted: 1/7/2012 7:09 PM

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Reeve

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hero of the day wrote:

Another improvement to the 100% run: After killing draygon, you place a regular bomb near the space jump door before it starts flashing. Have the bomb detonate right when the door begins to flash. In the meantime, have samus grapple onto the electric spark and then use the grapple momentum to fly into the space jump room at sick speed. This is a great workaround, because normally you cannot press the B button to otherwise build speed.

Nice idea, dude!

hero of the day wrote:

Also, does anyone think a draygon 1 round is possible? I wonder if the grapple was used to freeze him just enough times, that you could unload PB combos and supers into him and then still get the shinespark off.

I think someone did something like this before, i think it was Saturn... i remember watching a Draygon one round not using the X-ray, but given that you could only use missiles on him due to the cooldown, it was slower than the usual strategy and you can't get that gunk drops while waiting for him to reach the center of the room to kill him. Edit: Maybe placing just a bomb could be enough to open the door for the grapple stuff, so you wouln't have lag. Also, did anyone test if that Cristal Flash on Ridley work?

Posted: 1/7/2012 6:08 PM

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Reeve

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That CWJ was fantastic, kriole! Congrats!

Posted: 1/7/2012 3:33 PM

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Reeve

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Cpadolf wrote:

Fun fact: If you make a hack where Samus can move on the ground at 15px/frame, she can fall straight through the floor.

Man, i've always wanted a trick to make Samus fall through one block floor to be found, So the Statue in WS could be skipped. Wtf? I really thought the PB would save more frames. Wouldn't the strategy change for, instead of charging the shinespark like you did, just run through the door and get more run up in the Hoppers room for a faster blue ball? Anyway, thank you very much for the explanation!

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