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Nice one hero. :-)
If it's optimized it will save 7 frames to the mockball strategy (which also looks a bit cooler IMO, so another slight entertainment loss). Best thing of this strategy is that it doesn't sacrifice any more damage points (despite a double damage boost) for the speed gains, so it's a sure way to go.
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Wow, didn't even notice this will be my 1000th post. Thanks for reminder. ;-)
About the finishing dates of the runs, I really can't promise anything with them. Maybe I manage to finish RBO in 2008 as well, maybe not. It largely depends on my motivation, my freetime I can't plan ahead, and some other things. I can only say that I didn't give up with any of this runs yet.
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Tonski wrote:
You mean you hope to get only WIP5 done this year, or the whole run?
Yeah, only WIP5 of course, because this will be the hardest part of the run to TAS. All next WIPs shouldn't take much time to produce, and so I hope to finish the entire run somewhere in 2008.
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Thanks darkness! Glad you like the run.
Regarding my progress, it's very slow because of what Omni said, and also because I just don't have enough freetime to work on it as much as I did before. I'm halfway done with WIP5 though, so I hope to get it ready this year at least. Sorry that I can't make it faster.
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IronSlayer wrote:
I agree that the two Super Street Fighter 2 videos on this site are very unimpressive for anyone who knows much about Street Fighter, or watches combo videos/top player matches.
The guy obviously has no clue what he's talking about.
To refresh your mind, this is the original SNES version of SSF2, not any of the modified copies that were released later, which allowed for more combo possibilities. I used all possible combos in this version and still tried to be entertaining as much as possible. Zangief is probably the better fighter for this, as he has more variety to offer in both, throws and general combos. I think Maj noticed it well.
Other than that I want to say that I have watched your Guile video, Maj. Too bad most of the combos (I think there were some infinite ones as well) are not possible on the original SNES version as mentioned before. Still, I enjoyed this movie alot. If you plan on doing some more of such demos with other characters someday, I would definitely look forward to see them as well.
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Fabian, just download v1.51. It's really not much of a deal, and you can delete it after watching anyway. The last SM-speedruns I did on v1.43 are the 0:39 SS any% and the 1:07 SS 100% currently available on my site (though I might update it with the 0:59 one someday).
And I have more news:
Being a bit frustrated about the last 0:38 run which missed 0:37 very closely, I just gave it another go, and finally managed the damn 0:37, which this time is a high one (37,82).
Super Metroid - any% speedrun in 0:37 (unassisted, single-segmented)
(Recorded on Snes9x v1.51)
This is a somewhat cleaner version with the 2 major errors of the previous run fixed. Although it has another major screw up (I had to retry the Lower Norfair Pillar shinespark 3 times), it was still enough to hold 0:37 due to time savings in other rooms. Also Ridley was managed much better this time, despite the nearly same conditions before the fight.
Now I'm satisfied with the result, so this will be the last any% run for now. Enjoy it!
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Ok, after finishing a couple of 100% runs in the last weeks, I got a feeling that I could once again improve my, first thought unimprovable, any% 0:39 run again.
And guess what, it worked out!
Super Metroid - any% speedrun in 0:38 (unassisted, single-segmented)
(Recorded on Snes9x v1.51)
And the shocking thing is, I got a damn low 0:38 (38,23 or 38min 14sec) on top of that as well! In fact I was extremely lucky to even finish it, as I took very much risk for Ridley by skipping many refills and using shinesparks to enter his room faster, but leaving me with only 2 Tanks for the fight. Luckily I managed to survive it nevertheless, with only 15 HP left!!
Although most tricks and Bosses (only Draygon could be a bit improved, I think) went really well in this attempt, I am sure I could get 0:37, because I screwed up in very unnecessary places like Ceres Ridley by accidentally taking weak damage which delayed the fight by some seconds, and Zebes Escape in which I could (and already did in other attempts) easily save 10 sec, making it up for the 14 sec left to get 0:37. However the run went so well other than this 2 screw ups, that I doubt I could pull off a similar quality again for now.
It's still a new record for me, and I'm especially happy about the fact that I matched Smokeys old SS time.
Enjoy!
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hero of the day wrote:
Saturn,
Can you post a demo showing how to obtain the speed booster using zero enregy tanks? I don't know how the pause screen trick works. A 7%, NBMB, shortest run, would be awesome. It would kill 3 birds with 1 stone.
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Kejardon wrote:
Saturn: For Speedbooster with only one tank, are you abusing the life-lengthening glitches via pause screen? Samus will not die if the game is currently pausing or unpausing, and with perfect timing you can even enter a room with 00 energy and manage to start pausing the game before Samus dies to get as much as a two-pause extension before Samus dies. You just need to pick up even a 5 health drop right before the game finishes unpausing and before you start pausing again to be able to stay alive between energy recharges.
OH MY GOD!
I just tested this, and it is indeed possible to survive the heat without ANY energy tanks at all using this pause screen abuse!
So the new Kejardon-Low% is 7% with this, as you won't need any Energy Tanks to get Speed Booster anymore. Very nice find Kej, and I'm surprised I didn't notice it in the RBO run. In a RBO run, this can now allow to immediately go for Ridley after getting Red Brinstar PBs, without even requiring to get any other items, though the constant pause screen abuse would make the run boring as shit to watch (not to mention much longer in realtime), and so I will stick to my "legal" RBO. ;-)
Cpadolf:
I'm pretty sure Hero confused something here. The current mockball method is the fastest possible for this room.
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Yeah, it would probably be best to just collect the Ice Beam, as it's on the way to Speed Booster. After some tests I can now guarantee that it's impossible to get the latter with less than 2 tanks while suitless, and so the Kejardon-low% run isn't possible in a NBMB anyway.
Good luck with NBMB though, hope you both get your laziness a bit down in the future. :-)
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moozooh wrote:
Murder beam saves 5 seconds at most, skipping Spazer saves about twice as much.
Only if you start it at the very beginning of the fight like usual.
Doing it in hotarubi style though, would indeed save around 10 sec, making it around same fast as skipping the Spazer for in-game time.
Of course it's better to skip Spazer anyway, as it would save much more realtime without in-game sacrifices.
On another subject, it's been a while, so I was wondering how is the progress of the NBMB run, evilchen/moozooh? I'm looking forward to see it done soon, as the simple and short route shouldn't require much work (except the Metroid part in Tourian) to finish it.
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I recently decided to give a single segmented 100% run a go again, since the last one I did was from 2005, which lacked on some tricks that were discovered later (for example Spores Super without CF), and also because my realtime skill level improved a bit by now.
After instantly geting a 1:03 in my first recent attempt (which already is a 4 min improvement over the last run), I got a 1:01 in the next one, and finally managed to break the 1 hour mark the first time ever by geting a 0:59!!
(59,57 to be exactly)
Super Metroid - 100% speedrun in 0:59 (unassisted, single-segmented)
The highlights of this run are probably the boss fights. I got the quick kill on Kraid, 3-round Phantoon, a excellent Draygon fight with alot of damage from the shinespark technique, and a pretty good Ridley fight. On top of that I managed to perform alot of difficult speed tricks as well (although there are also some fails).
This is probably my best performance so far, and I don't see a way to majorly improve this run anymore with my skill.
Enjoy!
PS:
This run is recorded on Snes9x v1.51. Luckily the movies stay in sync very well as long as you don't use savestates, making it the emulator of choice for me when doing realtime speedruns.
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Locke wrote:
I don't know if this has been posted here before, but this is just insane:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyWZ3n6nzvU
Basically a flash video of a custom made levels where as soon as you enter
it, you no longer need any controller input to complete the level. There are
others other than the one I linked, but this one is probably my favorite. It's
just unbelievable how complicated some of the stuff is. If you haven't seen
this before, you'll definitely be impressed.
Wow, the crazy japanese strike again! :-P
I first thought this is just some level with autoscroll that pushes Mario to the finish, but this was far beyond my exceptions. Extremely clever and complicated level build that was very entertaining to watch.
I'm highly impressed!
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For me (and probably for most Super Metroid fans), the by far most important goal in any kind of SM-run is to get a as low as possible game completion timer to display at the end of the game. This is the only factor that truly indicates the speed quality, and officially gives a quality-mark to the run. The seconds are irrelevant, it's all about the rounded minute displaying. Because of this reason, the 2nd clock that shows realtime is obviously less important (note: not a opinion, just a fact), as it's:
1. of no help in any way to plan out the ingame timer to get the lowest game completion to display at the end
2. not even to 100% in sync to the realtime emulator framecounter (according to hero)
Hope the point is clear.
I know and agree that realtime is the more important timer to aim when TASing most of the games, but Super Metroid is just a rare exception here, for many reasons stated many times in the past.
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Cpadolf wrote:
Also Saturn, now that you have seen this what ingame time do you think you would be able to achive (given that nothing new will be discovered)
Sub-24, as usual. And comparing the part after Draygon of your run, you gained around 10-15 sec to my sloppy test-finish there. So I still think sub-24 is even possible without Torizo skip. It's just extremely close. :-)
JXQ wrote:
I think it's also important to note that in-game time is only displayed in minutes. Seeing more detail requires viewing the game's RAM. So, if a run improves the in-game time of a previous run by some seconds, but not enough to change the end time's minute marker, and it is slower in real-time, should this be a candidate for obsoletion? For that case, I would say no.
But if I say no for that case, then I can't say yes to the case where the in-game minute is improved, because then I feel it would be basing much of the criteria on a changed viewable time, and that conflicts directly with the notion that the frame count should be taken with a grain of salt for in-game aiming runs.
In case you missed it, thats exactly what I mentioned all the time before. Aimig for the fastest possible realtime run (including removing all lag and other things just like in your/heros run, with only the mentioned before priorities above all this:
Saturn wrote:
1. Getting a 0:23 completion time (impossible to reach by aiming for realtime only)
2. Getting fastest possible escape times in Ceres and Zebes to set a universal record that is easy to see on any emulator
3. Collecting all the important items that give variety, increase entertainment and speed up the actual playthrough on cost of some realtime delays (HJ-Boots, Space Jump, Plasma etc.)
The skip pause screen point is unnecessary as Warp said, so I don't count it anymore. Obviously it would make the run alot longer in reatime by using even one of them.
So of course, a 23:59 run with max possible optimized realtime is still better than a 23:35 one with slightly longer realtime.
Kyrsimys wrote:
How about publishing it as .smv only, with only a mention and a link in the current movie's description? That used to be done a lot more, is there any reason why it's not done anymore?
I can go ahead, encode and upload a TASvideos standard AVI to archive.org, so that you can just link to it for those who want to see a video of this run.
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This is a great and very well optimized run. You did a great job for your first serious TAS, Cpadolf. I'm really impressed. I especially liked to see the optimized early PB/glitch through ceiling tech in the LN spike room during the escape, which was spoiled by hero. You also are entertaining during waiting scenes.
I still think it's best to publish both runs alongside each other, because they aim for completely different goals. As suggested before, it would at least fit in the "concept demo" section. I liked this run and vote yes, provided it won't obsolete heros run.
Warp wrote:
That "reasonable" is precisely what makes the goal undefined. How do you define "reasonable"?
One difficulty this imposes is to decide what kind of movie could perhaps obsolete this one. If someone submits a movie with a shorter in-game timer completion but longer real-time completion, would it be acceptable? If yes, how much longer in real-time can it be before it becomes unacceptable? What if it's the other way around, ie. shorter real-time completion but longer in-game completion? Acceptable? Not acceptable? If acceptable, how much is too much?
Very good point, actually.
Since I work on the same kind of run, I want to tell you my goal, which I think is pretty solid and definable:
Here are the priorities I'm aiming for in such a run, sorted by importance:
1. Getting a 0:23 completion time (impossible to reach by aiming for realtime only)
2. Getting fastest possible escape times in Ceres and Zebes to set a universal record that is easy to see on any emulator
3. Collecting all the important items that give variety, increase entertainment and speed up the actual playthrough on cost of some realtime delays (HJ-Boots, Space Jump, Plasma etc.)
4. Avoid the Pause screen completely (possible due to point 3)
So to answer your question of which run will absolete the other, I would take the lowest possible realtime run that still gets 0:23 and meets the above conditions. Pretty clear goal, isn't it?
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I'm back from Vacation, and it's cool to see so many news here!
hero of the day wrote:
round 2 for 100% techs. This time I am showing off one of the biggest timesavers left untapped.
damn nice gain right here
This trick will save around 40-50 frames IIRC, and I really wanted to use it in the LN escape of my RBO run. Unfortunately you can't avoid taking damage from the big hopper right after passing through the ceiling, which would cost me 160 damage - too much to survive the escape later. Even with skipping the 120s damage boost in the room before entering the Elite Pirates room for that, having 40 less points would drop me below the 30's mark, which wouldn't allow for the extremely important ammo refills in the last rooms before exiting Norfair.
I however planned to use this trick on my any% run for a good surprise. Spoiler hero did a good job to prevent that though. :-P
hero of the day wrote:
This however is new to me, probably because it was just out of question to use any damage boosts in the RBO run at this point. (When finishing my any% very sloppy just to see what time is possible to get, I just didn't give a shit to search for new tricks in any part of the run after Draygon).
This trick seems to save around 6-10 frames on cost of 15 energy points (with Gravity Suit of course). Depending on the actual health it may or may not be worth the use in a any% run, but it's still a very nice trick to keep in mind, and obviously a must use in 100%. Well done hero.
Also I probably should mention that I highly doubt a 0:36 100% time is possible if avoiding the pause screen completely. The in-game slowdowns would be just too big. I think even with full in-game time optimization, a 0:36 is very very hard to get, even by using all the mentioned tricks.
Kejardon wrote:
hero of the day wrote:
Let me explain how this works. I recently found out that the elite pirates can take damage even when they are not in their yellow attack form. When they throw their arms at samus, they are actually vulnerable for 2 frames. If you hit them with a charged/plasma/wave/ice, you will do 900 damage. They only have 1,800 hp, so 2 hits are required. If you turn on the x-ray just after it makes first contact and wait for 10 frames, they will become vulnerable again and a second hit will happen from just the one beam, killing them instantly.
I first found this out on accident with super jump echoes. :P That might be the only place where super jump echoes are an actual useful weapon.
Though, it's apparently not very feasible to do so quickly. Saturn did so I think, but I think it was actually slower than using super missiles normally - it was useful mainly because it saved weaponry.
Right. The Super Missile variant is around 100 frames faster, but will get much less Supers refills, which at least in a RBO run will definitely be slower to use at the end.
Here is the mentioned variant I did for comparison when making the RBO. I probably shared it with Kej and some other few guys last year, but I think most who are interested missed it back then:
http://rapidshare.com/files/54762367/SM_-_ElitePirates_SuperMissile_Variant.avi.html
(and yeah, it abuses the vulnerable 2 frame period of the pirates hero mentioned before)
evilchen wrote:
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JXQ wrote:
What could your motives be for this behavior?
To give people a small preview of what to expect in the future run. Just a small teaser, nothing else.
hero of the day wrote:
I never said it was one of those on the list, but it is some sort of technical change, not an optmization. Chose your words better.
Nope, it's indeed all about optimization, not a change.
hero of the day wrote:
I know it because when I posted about the CWJ in the Old MB room, you said something like "Hero, you found one of my optimizations". That is how I know that.
It might be both combined. Though most of the gains are still from optimization.
hero of the day wrote:
I doubt I would even use it in my run unless it was faster in real time (which I am pretty sure it isn't).
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hero of the day wrote:
1. You either used a different steam boost.
2. You used an extra steam boost.
3. You know of some unknown method for increasing speed slightly.
4. You know of some unknown method of walljumping differently
All wrong.
hero of the day wrote:
I remember when you told me that the reason you were 30 frames ahead of JXQ up to the torizo was just because yours was more optimized. Well in truth, yours was not more optimized, you just used an otherwise unknown technique to gain the frames.
How do you want to know that? I don't remember to ever posting the run somewhere.
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Ok, I suspected this would come. I'm actually surprised to see you guys seriously thinking I would encode a fake video with a manipulated timer for nothing (which is of course possible as hero showed). This can only mean my time must be seriously that good to be unbelievable that it's legit. Thanks for the compliment. :-)
Btw, I have another pointer for you:
IRC's nesvideos wrote:
Session Start: Thu Aug 17 00:01:47 2006
Session Ident: #nesvideos
[00:01] * Now talking in #nesvideos
...
[04:20] * JXQ has joined #nesvideos
[04:21] <Saturn2> hi jxq
[04:21] <JXQ> hello
[04:22] <JXQ> wjat
[04:22] <JXQ> what's up
[04:22] <Saturn2> stucking at RBO in that time doing any%
[04:22] <Saturn2> ceres is finished
[04:22] <Saturn2> guess my escape time
[04:22] <Saturn2> this time it's the ABSOLUTE limit I think
[04:24] <JXQ> hmm
[04:24] <JXQ> 49.10
[04:24] <Saturn2> hmmm
[04:24] <Saturn2> so much?
[04:25] <JXQ> well, you are pretty good at this :)
[04:25] <Fabian_> hi JXQ
[04:25] <Saturn2> but ok it's 49'15!!!
This was exactly 1 year ago now, shortly after I got this time done in the new started any% run back then. Ask JXQ himself or anybody else who has logs of this channel to confirm this dialogue and the date of it.
As you see, I had nothing to do,
and just wanted to fool JXQ. ;-)
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Alright, since I promised, and since you apparently need a proof that badly to see how hopeless and untrue my statements are, here is the demonstration of the 49'15 escape, directly ripped from my cancelled any% WIP:
http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/SM%20%2D%20Ceres%20Escape%20in%2049%2715%20by%20Saturn.rar
Enjoy!
PS:
Evilchen, I do aim for fastest in-game time without abusing the menu pause screen. The slight delays for a faster Ceres escape are the only exception, as it demonstrates pure precision everybody can follow in realtime for this part of run.
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Awesome job, inichi!
Never thought you could skip the question delay in the future room like that. I'm once again highly impressed by your creativity, man.
This is just another example of how important knowledge of a game is when making a TAS. You are the true Chrono Trigger master, and you proved it over and over from the very beginning we have seen your unbelievable 3:49 txt file. ;-)
Congratulations on your first TAS and for discovering all this new tricks that allowed such a huge improvement. I'm really proud of you, and give the probably strongest YES vote I did in a good while!
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The decision is yours. I go for fastest escape time, even on cost of slight frame sacrifices before it, because it will be clearly noticeable in any video (unlike the frame sacs), and because it gives a nice characteristic value to the run. It's just for art, no other reason.
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Thanks Fabian.
And JXQ is right, let's not argue about this anymore. Believe what you believe in, and I appologize for trying to tell you the truth. It's just not possible to convince one with words, so let's wait until the facts come in form of a movie, ok?
Evilchen:
The in-game counter doesn't matter, because I have a different beginning length anyway. The rest you can see on the escape timer pretty exactly.