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I actually managed to skip one of the arm sickles at speed 1, but I had to allow Lavos to use both ones in order to restart his Battle Gauge from "0". If I would skip that one sickle, I wouldn't be able to kill him with the last Luminaire + Marles shot combo before he would use his "Shadow Slay" attack, which would most likely waste more animation time than a sickle.
If it's possible to skip both ones with Speed 2, and still be able to kill him before the Shadow Slay attack, only then it might be faster in the end, though I don't know how many frames you would lose in all fights because of Speed 2. Personally I doubt it's possible even at S2, since his Shadow Slay attack message appeared before Satur/Crono could recharge his battle gauge. Even if you could cast Luminaire during the Shadow Slay message first, it would still follow before your Luminaire attack, which for example was the reason why I had to set Battle mode to "Wait" instead of "Active" in order to skip that last attack of Lavos at all.
Thanks for your trick though, I will take a look and test around with it to find out if it might work.
About the End of Time scene, I just did backwards testing to find out which characters would trigger the Spekkio door to open, and which not. That was done in the currently published first version of this TAS, so I just had to copy that strategy into this one.
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Thats why I only rate movies of games I know the TAS-possibilities pretty well and only after taking a closer look on the quality of it, to make my rating as true as possible.
But I understand that there are people who rate much more movies they actually don't even know the game of pretty well, so I agree that sometimes cluelessness is unavoidable in that case.
In any case, causing peer pressure or whatever is definitely not my intention, I just stated my view on it.
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moozooh wrote:
I know not everyone is sensitive like that, and not everyone rates the movies much lower than the average, but I still wouldn't want such things to happen, as it might hurt the integrity of the community.
I don't think it would. The only thing it would do is it would make it better clear which members actually have a clue, and which don't, about the movie they are rating.
Giving them a option to "hide" their ratings will obviously be subject for abuse by those who know they rate movies just by their own flavour (probably without even watching in some cases) to boost up movies they like or pull down movies they don't, no matter what the true facts are about the movie (this applies at least to technical ratings, which should be exclusively judged by the facts they show).
I'm pretty sure having all ratings published would increase the overall truth behind them for every movie, those making this site of higher quality in the rating department, and therefore making the first time visiter/watcher much clearer what to expect about a movie they are interested to watch.
About the hater thing, I said before that it was just a thought. I take it all back and apologize if it was truely a missclick or any other reason.
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I couldn't have said it better than Kyrsimys and hero already did.
All ratings should be public, as it would mainly help against abuse which is a good thing.
People who rate movies objectively wouldn't care about their ratings being published. We are a open community, so there is no reason to hide such things.
Those who have a problem with their rating being published, shouldn't rate at all then.
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hero of the day wrote:
When I make a new video, it will have all item/elevator scenes removed.
Good choice. Wanted to note that as well, but forgot while making the last post. :-)
Also choose only the most exciting parts of the run to make the music vid as entertaining as possible. And I don't think the song have to match with the length of the video. Just make sure it gets cancelled well and not in the middle of a text the singer is singing (if there is one), if you have to cancel it earlier at least.
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HAHA!!
Hero is a Bomfunk MC's fan? The song is one of my favourites as well. Called "Freestyler". Weeks on the Nr.1 in our Music charts at VIVA and MTV back then. :-)
To be honest, this song was very close to be used in my 1st RBO teaser. But then I picked "Something Going On" nevertheless.
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evilchen wrote:
if i really try to tie the frames - i would smash my computer, ive allready done this sometimes....
and i know the corner/low things are pretty crap because its something really crazy i guess :/
Not a promising attitude, to be honest... Without the way hero suggested it you won't be able to learn HQ TASing.
Btw. Exactly same case how I learned TASing that game. In first attempt I only tried to tie flatleys counts, but I didn't continue, instead I tried to improve the room at the very first run already, after managing the tie. Continued this steps room, for room, for room... Thats a no less run than the RBO, and even if it's hard to believe, it's my first Super Metroid TAS attempt I have ever done. :-)
I never allow me to waste time on a test run (even in the very first attempt) if I know I can optimize it from the very beginning with enough patience.
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"jixie-queue" <-- haha, poor JXQ :-P
I spell it "Jay-Ex-queue" as well.
On the Acronyms like SNES, FCEU, whatever, I just spell the letters as they are.
Oh and only one exception: I sometimes spell "moozooh" like "crazy high quality". ;-)
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Very nice and thoroughly optimized run. I especially liked the really fast boss fights. It was also a good decision to use the Missiles at the death/exploding scene of the Omega Metroid after killing it with ice, to make it look you still hurt it with them, even if it wasn't the case. A plus in entertainment and YES vote!
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Simply a brilliant run!
I was positively surprised how fast and optimized it was. Never thought some of the moves showed here were possible before. The spring-spiderball bounce combo was amazing and the way you climbed up platforms with a spring/midair jump was really fast and almost compareable to Super Metroid. :-)
I also liked how you managed to rocket yourself up with tons of damage taking and how you used the spider ball and bomb jumps to get up difficult rooms without space jump. Your health management was just awesome (01 at the refill 0_0, impossible to be closer!), and the boss fights seem also to be very very optimized.
The only thing I wonder, why didn't you try to minimalize the distance while firing the Missiles into the Omega Metroids in order to shorten the Missile-appearance on the screen and therefore increase the frequency of the shots? I'm not sure, would it make them to turn around if you would come any closer?
In any case, a really well performed and highly optimized TAS overall, and I vote a obvious YES of course.
Definitely best Metroid 2 run I have seen so far!
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curtmack wrote:
Frog's major strong point is in his double techs anyway - Spire and Swordstream are both powerful (especially if you can type match), and he has that one really powerful one with Ayla (Bubble Snap I think?), plus Double Cure with Marle. Leap Slash is also fairly powerful.
(For the record, I'm speaking from a regular gameplay perspective - I know nothing about speedrunning Chrono Trigger and never really intend to.)
Yeah, I speak of the regular (or maybe half-speedrun) perspektive as well.
About attacks, single-attacks are mostly of much more use than double and triple attacks, since with 2 other characters free to do other techs, you have much better control of the fights. Having Robo in your team makes double tech healing absolutely useless, since he can heal all party members at once with one single-tech which only eats small 3 MP per cast. However you are right, in the early parts of the game, Frogs double techs can be very useful. In the later parts of the game however, they mostly get obsoleted by the heavier techs that you can only learn after getting many tech points. Thats exactly where Robo gets much more useful because of them.
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curtmack:
Even if it abuses only one glitch in the entire game, what is the difference? It's still a run that abuses glitches, because if I wouldn't say so I would lie, since it abuses a glitch. :-)
For information, Frog sucks as a overall character. He has no powerful fullscreen single magic attack, nor does he have any powerful physical attacks. Frog Squash is always dependent on your HP, so it's not a very useful tech (who wants to fight a boss with 1 HP all the time just to get max damage power of the Squash?). Robo on the other hand is the exact opposite: Powerful fullscreen single magic attack, powerful physical attacks, best single-healer in the game and on top of that, capable to use 3 out of 4 magic elements: Lightning, Shadow and Fire.
Also, Marle never said anything about Crono. I think you missread that.
The actions before the fight are odd, but thats probably hardcoded into the game, so no matter when you fight Lavos, the Characters always act the same.
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moozooh wrote:
Well, that isn't that bad. At least you're trying new stuff, and that is good. Trying new stuff is the key to making a good TAS. Play with frame advance and memory watch some more, and you'll get a hang of it. Basic optimization will become trivial with more experience.
Well, reaching moozooh-quality isn't really that trivial, you know. It's more a matter of patience. Only with alot of it you can get new experience and improve significantly. And of course it costs much time.
Also, I checked your vids, Tonski. It's not moozooh-optimized, but it looks very entertaining and cool nevertheless. Good luck with your further progress, and lets see what final time you will be able to get. :-)
EDIT:
Just watched evilchens run. It definitely looks much better than your previous movies. Keep up practicing and you will get better for sure.
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Thank you guys! I really appreciate your comments.
Regarding the obsoletion problem, I agree with Hero and notBowen. I think no matter if this run skips the Candy Scene or not, it should obviously obsolete the previous version. It's a New Game+ so it really doesn't matter if you use any kind of glitch there or not, since the main goal is to get fastest possible time, and you skip the entire game anyway.
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I think this run isn't worth to be published anywhere else except as a concept demo eventually. I honesty was a bit bored watching it because of the too slow speed. But some small parts of the run (like shell-jumping) and the boss fights were once again very nice and entertaining performed, so because of it, I give it a meh instead of a no.
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Chainsaw Beam?? Never heard of that before. How much damage does it deal? Or does it have a similar continuity damage effect as Murder Beam?
Also I have a easier name suggestion for the "10% skip all bosses run": Since nobody else had by far a chance to discover such a complex run before, why not just name it "Kejardon run"? :-P
It's easy to understand, and for insider very informative of what type of a run this is.
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kwinse wrote:
Saturn wrote:
JXQ wrote:
I always though this was a retarded game to TAS. Improvement, bleh. I'm voting no.
Weird one, JXQ. I don't get why somebody vote "no" on a run that IS faster not only by a tiny amount of frames (where this could be a valid reason if entertaining sucked on the, for example 2 frames faster improvement) but by whole seconds compared to the previous, already published TAS. Do you prefer to rather have the slower published run stay where it is instead of replacing it with a better run?
The poll question is "Did you like watching this movie?", not "Should this movie be published?" JXQ answered the former like he should, and nobody should ever dog him for it.
Yeah, I always forget about the actual question. In that case I'm sorry, as of course everybody has his opinion. I just ment that rejecting a obviously faster run because of such no votes would be absolutely wrong, as we mostly aim for fastest time, unless otherwise stated.
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JXQ wrote:
I always though this was a retarded game to TAS. Improvement, bleh. I'm voting no.
Weird one, JXQ. I don't get why somebody vote "no" on a run that IS faster not only by a tiny amount of frames (where this could be a valid reason if entertaining sucked on the, for example 2 frames faster improvement) but by whole seconds compared to the previous, already published TAS. Do you prefer to rather have the slower published run stay where it is instead of replacing it with a better run?
If the game sucks, and there is no published run of it yet, it would be not a problem to vote no. But on a improvement of a already published run... It's like voting no on your Super Metroid 100% v2 TAS and keeping v1 instead, which of course would be the silliest thing ever.
I don't see why it should be different in this case too.
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This guy is impossible.
Being busy breaking Chrono Trigger, TASing Super Metroid any% v2, and doing countless tricky testings, also with new low% NBMB, he STILL is able to make new and improved TASes of other games.
Don't know this game and those not watching/voting (makes no sense anyway), but I just had to throw my impression about big hero out. :-)
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Fredrik:
It doesn't.
I would really recommend to put the low% run which skips all bosses, into a different category, such as "skips all bosses", or "broken run", or "glitched version", even if this 10% no boss run would be faster than the legit any%. Although it's stunning, fast and great, it abuses save, death, and reload, which is just too much to make it a perfectly legit run. It should be compareable to the Zelda - A Link to the Past glitched in 4 min run, which also has its own category. Also the 4 main bosses and especially Mother Brain are one of the highlights in Super Metroid, so by skipping them, the run would just miss too much, and in first place entertainment.
And I'm a bit confused: Didn't you, moozooh, want to make this broken low% TAS? Or will you stick with the legit low% you planned all the time so far?
One thing is for sure, if hero "light-speed HQ-TASer" of the day decides to make this run, it will be finished too quickly, so everybody who possibly planned to work on this run should cancel it and support him instead. The moozooh-quality of this version would easily take a couple of months / years, so maybe it should be done as a 2nd version, in case new discoveries of this still very new run will be found after the 1st version is already finished.
Tonski:
Didn't continue the RBO yet. MetroidElitest, SMR-any% and other stuff were in the way. ;-)
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hero of the day wrote:
ahhh, very lame news. I just played through the entire cathedral/yakra thing. When I get back to the present, the candy scene is automatically forced when I walk downwards with marle. Oh well, it will still save time, but not really that much.
Hmmm, how would it save even a slight ammount of time at all then? You would just delay the scene for later, those it would be same fast in the end, no?
(Actually since you have to slowdown a bit to pass that scene the 1st time, it might be even slower in the end?)
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Holy Shit! This is just crazy! I actually tried to pass this dialogue as well, but seems you are just smarter to find such, even slightest holes in the game to fool it! :-P
Also good decision to not use turbo buttons even thought it will be much additional work. But the TAS quality will definitely be worth this effort in the end anyway.
hero of the day wrote:
Saturn, I got a question for you. Do you know if the battle message speed should be increased? After some testing it seems that it doesn't make a difference in the overall length of the battle. Confirmation would be appreciated.
Yes, it's only the message speed, and those not affecting the actual battle speed at all. It's even better to keep it the way it is, so that the watcher has more time to read what attacks you casted during the battles. :-)
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Hero:
I just tested your drainer-charge smv, and the PB-wave doesn't reach the drainer, even if you don't jump to get it offscreen. The reason it still gets killed is because, as you surely knew, the PB has a double damage possibility. The problem is, once the first wave destroys the drainers block, which is hiding him before, he immediately jumps up after being free, and those runs in to the 2nd wave which kills him. If you get it offscreen, he won't jump, those staying alive.
You can test laying the PB a bit lower, so that the first PB-wave already kills him together with his block, and if it does, it doesn't matter how much you will jump up before the wave to get him offscreen. He gets killed in any way.
Tonski:
Your Charge Walljump tech looks cool, but it's definitely slower than what Hero did in his any%. Compare yourself. Also use the turbo button for arm pumping to get maximum speed-gain. You use it manually and those far less effective than with turbo.