Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
JXQ wrote:
Kejardon told me about a way to slightly lower the effect of this - by using a charged beam power bomb combo when shinesparking, a second shinespark in the same room will end faster. I haven't tried it, so I don't know how effective it is, and I also can't think of a place it would help in the run, but here's what Kejardon told me:
Also on the topic of beam tricks, if you have a 4-projectile charge beam combo going and you do a super jump, one of the echoes will not fire off because the projectile array is full already (5 projectiles max)
The useful part is that the *next* set of super jump echoes will still be prepped to fire, and so you will cut off a lot of the super jump ending wait. The catch is that it has to be within the same room, leaving the room will lose the effect.
Wow, interesting stuff, thanks for posting it JXQ. Never had the idea to find such extreme tricks. If Kejardon know any other useful trick/glitch that could help in TAS'ing to save time, I would very appreciate to hear it.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
I'm pretty sure it is impossible to stop Samus in mid air while shinesparking/flying no matter what buttons you press. You just have to deal with the long crash animation.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
This are good points. It probably is so close that there is no way around of testing all situations with and without the Pike and calculate the final result of both variants. Leveling up with the Enbu Pike is of course much easier and faster but the cons are that you have to take a additional detour to the Mu Island to get it and there are only 2 bosses (the Stars at Great Lake Caverns and the Robot in Berugas Lab) that will be faster to defeat this way. After that you can get the Hero Pike already which replaces the Enbu Pike.
It is very difficult to make correct calculations on which variation is faster without actually doing a TAS for both routes and compare them side by side. This is another reason that holds/held me back from TAS'ing this game.
About Bloody Mary I am pretty sure that the fastest way to defeat her is still to use perfect timed hits and avoid magic at all because it just takes too much time compared to the slightly higher damage you will get from it.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Atma wrote:
do you think it'd be possible without the monotonous levelling sessions present in the one i saw?
No, it definitely is impossible to skip this leveling parts even if you get the Enbu Pike of Mu Island. However you could try to reduce the leveling up time to go through the game with a lower level.
I'm really not sure if the Enbu Pike (althought it has awesome strenght) is worth to take (in a TAS at least) because it costs you around 1-2 minutes to get with long waiting animations and you can get it only late in the game where it would be useful only in later quests (from the Great Lake Caverns on).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
The any% run Atma mentioned has a in-game time of 4:34 hours at the last savepoint. It was more of a test run because I have never recorded a serious any% run before. I recorded it in November last year on Snes9x.
The smv is available in the Snes9x Section (bottom of the page).
Furthermore I recorded a 100% run 2 years ago which is probably better in quality than the any% run. In-game time at last savepoint was 8:52 but I lost at least 3 hours because I haven't skipped the text-dialogs so that the watcher could read them fast enough. Only downside is that it was recorded on a older ZSNES version but thanks to a guy who has captured this run in a 3-segmented AVI so that everyone can watch it.
The zmv is in the ZSNES section
and the AVI at Archive.org:
1st and 2nd segment3rd segment
Note: Both, the any% and the 100% run were played on the fly without using any tools like rerecords or slowdowns so they are in no ways TAS'es.
I already considered to TAS this game but cancelled it because Snes9x desynced on it at that time. But since nitsuja have fixed this problem I would eventually give it a try again after I complete the Super Metroid RBO run.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Sheer awesomeness man especially the fact with the ingame-time! It's like a fairlytale to get such a close and absolutely perfect final time. :-)
The speed spring-ball tech was great and saved a lot of time, the Ridley fight was awesomly fast, defeating this 2 elite pirates in lower norfair by hiting both with one charged plasma shot was a great Idea and the tourian part was unbelieveable fast.
This is without a doubt one of the most impressive TASes on this site so far and I vote YES with a big fat Star for this run!
Phantastic job JXQ!
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
This is awesome news! Reducing 700MB to just 50 MB with no quality loss sounds really impossible for me so I'm looking forward to the first release of this codec to test it.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
You are insane JXQ! :-)
He just collected 100% items, defeated Ridley and passed the pain called lower norfair just like that in this amount of time? Almost inhuman!
To your question, Kejardon explained exactly how it works on Metroid2002:
Kejardon wrote:
Glitching through the Zebetite with the ice beam:
First off, screw attack must be de-equipped. Freeze the bottom Rinka before it moves. Now you need some invincibility time. You can spin jump onto the Rinka and get hurt for 0 damage, so it's free invincibility time. After you're invincible, you need to spin jump onto the Rinka again. Then just jump and hold left. For some reason, low spin jumps seem to work best.
The reason this works: The collision detection detects the frozen Rinka before it bothers to detect the wall, so Samus is placed on top of the Rinka, slightly inside the wall and Zebetite. Normally, the Zebetite will hurt Samus and push her away, because Samus is now in the Zebetite's hitbox. This is why you need to be invincible.
Once you're inside the Zebetite, the game no longer blocks Samus from moving around inside of it, so you're able to simply jump right through it before the invincibility runs out.
Screw attack must be de-equipped, because you lose your invincibility time when you use the Screw attack.
I hope this clears everything up for you, good luck.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
This is great! I really hope you guys will finaly make a TAS of this legendary RPG-game!
For me the movie also desyncs at Ifrit as Sabin misses his DA and does a normal attack. I tried FF3 1.0 (U) and FF3 1.1 (U) with same result. :-(
I used SNES9x v9 to playback with the loaded sync-settings from the movie. You should really check if this also happens to you and fix it before recording further.
The movie itself is great so far. The desperation attacks were really cool and the South Figaro escape with Locke was very nice. One thing I can't understand is why did you go and get the merchant clothes anyway? Does it affect anything in the game later? Other than that keep up the great work, I look forward to it!
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Awesome run, especially the Draygon fight! You seem to work on this around 20 hours a day otherwise I just can't explain how you can progress that fast man. :-)
About the special robot pasage: I can't think of any other way to pass here except waiting for it, without X-Ray anyway.
About my RBO progress: I'm finally in lower Norfair in the serious recording and have a ton of work ahead to calculate the optimal way because my energy is so damn close and most likely I will be forced to use the Crystal Flash before even entering Ridleys room which wasn't planned like that because I lose alot of Energy in the waiting time before he appears and don't do 400 HP damage to him from my Crystal Power-Bomb.
After all the mindbreaking and countless lower norfair testings I also feel a bit sick of TAS'ing this game right now and need a small break to relax. I will continue it very soon again, just give me time.
Fredrik wrote:
On topic: when you grab the first super missile in Maridia, wouldn't it be faster to use a regular bomb? You could drop a power bomb first and then a regular bomb for the climb.
As far as I know the power bomb lifts you up exactly same fast as a regular bomb and JXQ laid it down in the earliest possible frame, so I don't think this can be any faster. He should confirm that though.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
It's extremely difficult to record a optimized 2-player Tournament of this kind which holds me back of continuing at the moment. Maybe I will do 1 or 2 more fights soon but I really can't promise anything right now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Just want to note that I added a link to the classic Snes9x-improvement6 version in case someone wants to see the 44 min any% run which desynced at Kraid on newer Snes9x versions. On v6 it plays just fine now.
Check http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/snes9xmovies.htm for the download.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
And another problem with mp4 is that people here are probably not experienced enough (see DeHackEd) to encode mp4 files perfectly nor find a good software. I use Virtual Dub as it allows pretty everything you can do with a movie-file (cut, append, mix, encode etc.) and it doesn't support mp4 at all which is a big minus in my book.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
A very interesting theory hero which should be tested someday. The problem of this is that the screen moves to the right only if you are almost at the Super M. Block yourself and the Super Missile is just too fast to rech it in time so I highly doubt it would be possible even with a fast mockball because you still need some acceleration to gain the speed here. But I would be glad if I'm wrong.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Just awesome, finaly parts of the run no one did before with the new tricks. The wreecked ship part was extremely good and the most stunning thing was probably this shinesparking in the top right room with this great distance Missile shot and still be able to open the door fast enough to go through.
And again a insane fast progress man, its almost unbelievable at this quality.
Keep it up!
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Dromiceius wrote:
A SSF-TNC (U) tournament. Me versus myself. It would be less retarded an idea if I didn't suck so much at street fighter. :D
WHO WILL WIN!?
This was nice. :-) My first guess as I saw the 8 choosen fighters was right! I could clearly see that you improved the quality of the fights towards the end. Some more training and some more combo-studying and you could really make a serious tournament demonstartion of this.
I also worked on a SSF2 Tournament demonstration but cancelled the work on it for now. Just in case someone wants to see it: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/927/SSF2_Tournament%20WIP%20by%20Saturn.smv
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
I patched my Metroid Legacy ROM from a (JU) one and it works just fine all the way. You just have to patch it correctly.
EDIT: I used IPSWIN 2.0 to patch it. Latest version of this program is available on:
http://zerosoft.zophar.net/ipswin.htm
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
I fully agree on using Google Ads on this site. They are almost unnoticable and doesn't disturb anything at all but still give worthful money this site will surely need.
Good choice IMO.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
I also agree with SSF2. I played it countless times in this mode and it's awesomly enjoying. No matter if you win or lose you just have to laugh your ass off after every fight!
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Wonderful run, I was thoroughly impressed watching it from beginning to end! Although this movie doesn't use the latest speed-techs it is still very well played (compareable to Teri's any% run) and entertaining to watch.
Even if it's probably not the fastest posible route and not 100% optimized in the movements, there will always have to be a 1st version and I think this run is more than great for this conditions.
I liked it and vote YES.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
If I remember correctly I heard that shinesparking into Crocomires mouth will cause the game to crash because it's a invalid move that you can't normaly use unless you use the short-charge glitch. This needs to be tested and confirmed though.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
JXQ wrote:
Saturn:
Hmm. I'm not completely convinced but I am intrigued. What about the third room where the lava is rising and you must jump high in ball form to barely make the jump? Would High-Jump affect the speed of that room?
No it would even be slower with High-Jump Boots since you reach the top of the room too early which bounces you down so that you can't reach the long platform even by using the morph ball trick. You have to switch HJ Boots off in this room then turn them on again for the green bubble room. If you aim for realtime it's of course out of question anyway.
Here is a list of specific rooms between your 100% WIP and my RBO run (which uses early HJ Boots route) compared in how many in-game frames the non HJ Boots route is slower:
1.) 1st Hot Room which requires bomb-jump if no HJB: 87 frames slower
2.) Big Green Bubble room which connects Speed B. + Wave B: 67 frames slower
3.) Reaching the top ground of the pre-Speed B. room (where I refill my energy): 15 frames slower
4.) Big pre-Wave Beam room (returning by using a walljump for the top left exit: 43 frames slower
5.) Climbing up the next room with the Dragons and the red flying balls right before Green Bubble room: 16 frames slower
6.) Green Bubble room (back from the wave-beam entrence till the lower left exit which also leeds to Croco: 23 frames slowerTogether 251 Frames in total ~ 4,2 sec
The double detour for geting HJ Boots early:
111 frames down, 156 frames up = 267 frames
But: You definitely lose more than this 16 frames in the Crocomire area especially in the walljump after the spike-azid Missile and at climbing up your way to the HJ Boots from Crocomires Grave.
If skipping Crocomire (like MF) you have to add 35 additional frames between the Save-Room and the HJ Boots room which is still around 20 frames slower than the early HJ Boots route. This is the result I got at least.
And I also confirm that shooting on the first possible frame in the next room is not slower than shooting through the door in the previous room (like Teri did).