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Very nice run and a pretty solid improvement to the previous one. I especially liked the clever use of the boomerang to get items without taking additional detours to them, and the quick boss fights. The only strange thing I noticed is that you used a normal attack on some of the bosses like the one at ~130000 frames, even though you had the time to get a charge for the first attack in each round, which usually does much more damage. Any reason for skipping it there? Other than that the run seems to be very clean, and I couldn't see any mistakes in it. Good job Tompa. A easy 8/9 from me.
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Nope, it's for Redesign only, don't worry.
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Cpadolf wrote:
Yeah, I understood that it was the temporary "momentum boost" from turning around that made it work, and I have used the zig-zag trick in both my 100% run and in SM:I (not to mention that it is what allows to get stuck far enough into the door when skipping the statue room without speedbooster).
Right, there are many opportunities for that trick to be used in the original game as well, as you guys showed.
Cpadolf wrote:
You can use it in the early frames as well, depending on how the stutter pattern you use looks. If it starts with 2 then holding dash for the first 3 frames will prolong the stopping animation without delaying the first booster check (and if you start with 4 then holding dash for frame 1-4 will help). But the optimal pattern I found didn't get any use of this. Either the game only puts in "extra frames" in the running animation at specific points, or it only does it when you have been running for a set amount of time (don't know which), so that's the reason dash can be held in the last few frames.
Ahh, I see now. The additional dash-boost is apparently only of benefit in the final stutter only, not during the early ones even if you use it in a way that wouldn't delay the running animation. Good to know. And yeah, the next WIP is on the way, as I finally finished all the necessary tests for the later parts. For those who are curious, but without spoiling too much, it will also introduce a totally new discovery, that I accidentally found just a couple of weeks ago, so there will be new stuff available for everybody, even for the experienced SM-TASer. ;-)
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Time for a technical update, I guess. I try to keep it short but still go into detail as much as needed.
Cpadolf wrote:
Here is a video of it being done. You can see that I land at 399.65535, while I would originally land at 398.65535, and the usual subpixel boost would have landed me at 399.32767.
This is the so called "zig-zag" trick that allows you to maintain some horizontal momentum you got before the jump, but in the opposite direction. Because of that it makes perfect sense that it allows to land even further into a platform than the powerranger boost, if well optimized. I actually took advantage of the zig-zag tech in many other situations in my Redesign TAS as well, but in a much more benefitting way than the platform boost, as you will see in the next WIP that should be out soon. But it's still a good find that will allow to eventually save a frame here or there. Well done Cpadolf. As for the charge optimization, it was clear that adding dash button presses would shorten the overall charge distance, because the greater your running speed is between the stutter walk, the longer your stopping animation would be as well, which surprisingly always results in a shorter distance in the end. However doing so in the early frames will slow down Samus' running animation, which means that it takes more time until the first speed boost level is reached, making you end up with a longer charge distance anyway. But apparently the running animation speed isn't affected if using dash in the later frames, which for some reason I never bothered to try, so it can still be used to slightly shorten the distance. Too bad that it still won't allow you to get a charge in places you previously couldn't with the older tech, as that would require to shave off almost one more block (they consist of 16 pixels), which is just too much to become possible. But we don't have to worry about it in most runs anyway, as there are no places other than the X-Ray charge where it would truly be of benefit as far as I know.
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Yeah, thanks for the movie and all information, FatRatKnight. Looks like the major key to get the additional population was to avoid almost all commercial zones and substitute them with the industrial ones. This are horrible conditions I thought wouldn't allow the city to grow just fine as well, but it's cool to be proven wrong. It was also a nice surprise to see the message after you reached 600000 population, as I didn't even know it exists. Great stuff!
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Burning Death wrote:
Recently a debug menu code was published for Sim City where you could rise the land value to max or reclaim all the water:
Wow, it doesn't happen often that you see a new trick/cheat for a game that you know pretty well for more than 15 years. Awesome information, BD! Though I agree that it shouldn't be used in a potential TAS, as it would be kind of cheating, much more so than the money glitch that I think should be allowed to speed up the run and make it more entertaining. I would be interested to see a 600000 population layout on a regular map though. Are you guys willing to show one if you have it? My best was ~540000 on map 061 (which I think is the best one to get max population), so it would be great to see how the last 60k can be pushed in with optimal planning. Also FatRatKnight, did you record a movie of your unassisted 600k run? If so, do you mind posting it? It looks very impressive the way you described it, so I would definitely check it out.
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moozooh wrote:
Do you really believe it's alright to claim that people are wrong without proving it and expect everyone to take your words for granted? If it is so, I'm afraid you need to grow up a bit.
Before bashing other people for no reason, you should actually look at yourself and your own mistakes at first, smarty. Just a suggestion.
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Yeah, Frame Advance is the only way to go in order to make a quality run. You're right, pushing and unpushing any button while not using the FA key inbetween will result in simply holding the button without releasing. In order to get the fastest possible fire rate (which is 30 times per second - 30 pushes and 30 releases) you have to do the following: Frame N -Push A key and let it pushed -Push FA key Get Frame N+1 by unpushing FA key -Unpush A key -Push FA key Get Frame N+2 by pushing FA key -Push A key and let it pushed -Push FA key etc. However for this matter I highly recommend to just use the "Turbo" key for any button to get the same effect and save you much time. Simply go to "Input" ---> "Input Configuration", go to the controller bar and select the "Joypad #1 Turbo" which is just below the "Joypad #5" one. Set any key for the button you wish to have Turbo on and use it whenever you need it. You can also toggle your normal buttons to Turbo and back by using the Shift + one of the 6 buttons above the arrow keys. Once you use a Turbo button, you can just hold it and it will automatically alter the push and release routine between each frame, even if you don't use FA. Keep in mind though that there is a 50% chance that the messages you wish to fast forward with it, will be scrolled forward on the 2nd frame, not the first. This is however very minor and wouldn't make a difference of more than ~5 seconds in the entire run, but will save you alot of working time. If you want maximal accuracy, there is no other way than manually searching for the first frame you can forward the messages from, but it's also much more annoying. It's up to you to decide. EDIT:
there is a chance that two buttons will both have the same function, in that case you may use that function every frame (e.g. A, B, A,B, etc)
Oh right, if there are 2 buttons (A and B for example) to scroll the messages forward, just set both buttons on Turbo, press and hold A on frame N, then press and hold B on frame N+1 and from there just get out of the pause mode and let the emulator run with normal speed while holding the buttons to get the altering effect, which in this case will always forward the message on the first possible frame by one of the buttons.
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SoM is definitely the most popular RPG that still doesn't have a TAS of it. It's time that we do something about it. :-) Looking forward what you can come up with, Mianoë. I also think it's a good idea that you don't want to use glitches. Legit runs are just the classic ones and much more enjoyable to watch in most cases, since the average player can always identify his own playing back in the past when watching the run. And the fact that you have a experienced SoM player like Seiken on your side to assist you makes this project a very promising one if you will have the patience to pull it off. Good luck!
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Definitely Cpadolf. He improved alot as a TASer and contributed 4 monster-of-SM runs in the first half of 2008 alone, one of them being the very difficult SMI one that can be flat out compared to RBO conditions (the hardest one can face in a SM TAS), gaining alot of knowledge out of them. He also developed a very tricky strategy to escape the big Metroid without Speed Booster, which alone deserves alot of respect already. All in all he proved to be one of the few TASer here who are capable to produce new quality runs from scratch on, without being dependent on other TASer work to copy the input from, and as we all know, this is the one and only criteria that makes a truly good TASer out.
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Thanks guys! evilchen: The AVI quality looks pretty decent on my computer. Maybe you just have a older version of the flash player installed that can't handle the new format very well? As for the smv, we will see when the run is done.
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Yeah, around 40% I guess.
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Alright, the next WIP is out. Once again with alot of new techniques in various places especially with the Speed Booster. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0dK9pkvx80 Enjoy!
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The attack level would actually be pretty decent with 99 Power and Magic stats. The problem alongside the missing equipment is the low HP of your characters and the lack of advanced techniques due to no possibility to get enough tech points for them in a fast enough time.
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RT-55J wrote:
(Actually, even at the rate Saturn is releasing the WIPs, I'd be willing to bet that the run will be released before any of the other ones in this thread :P )
Easily predictable for one simple reason: Copying a existing run is the only way to not get pwned by it. I'm pretty sure this will apply to other SM runs I plan to do as well. :-)
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I think this is sarcastic, meaning that "you will receive your punishment" from god sooner or later, if doing things he doesn't want you to do.
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Matty: You need at least 7 Energy Tanks and have both suits deequipped before the final drain beam attack starts. After that you can stand up by simply pressing upwards, while MB still triggers the big Metroid cutscene. Check this video for more info and a optimal demonstration of that trick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol7c5WOFLIg EDIT: Posted before seeing Cpadolf's response due to being busy during the writing.
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kchrules wrote:
How about a run where you beat lavos right when you get to the End of time?
Not possible without NewGame+, as there is no way to survive his fatal attacks without status protective equipment and the GreenDream, both of which are only available from Fiona's Quest on.
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OmnipotentEntity: Seems like you don't know the difference between a on-topic question and pointless bickering. Please check the definition of a "question" here, in case you wonder what it means. Angerfist: Nice work. Will check the video once the slow download is finished. And yeah, Kej's project will for sure be great when it's done. Nice demo.
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I never needed any RAM adresses to produce SSF2 TASes, so I unfortunately can't help you here. It's not that hard to determine the optimal charge time by just trying to shoot every ~5 frames at the critical moment anyway. Hopefully Rick's code will be of use for you though.
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Hero: To be honest now, I probably won't make a any% after all, seeing as both (ingame and realtime ones) are already in work by experienced and talented SM-TASer, who I feel are able to produce good enough quality on their own that isn't worth the time waste to be improved just to save a few frames/seconds at most. However, I might still do my version of the RBO someday, as I feel I could still show new and unexpected tricks, even now. Producing completely new runs with many surprises was always my main motivator, after all. As of now, I'm still working on SMR and will release a new WIP soon if nothing comes in the way, so stay tuned. :-) Also, a question to moozooh:
moozooh in April 2007 wrote:
I myself use that as a motivation for the run I'm currently producing as well, but I will continue working on it even if someone will submit a run only marginally slower than mine (I refuse to believe someone can make it faster, definitely not in this case). Moreover, the recent events related to it, including Kejardon solving a possibility for 9% run, didn't stop me as well, even though they easily could.
Since you refused to believe that someone could make a more than one minute faster run than yours, and the truth about it is out now, do you mind letting the community know whether you still plan to finish your Speed Booster version of the 14% run someday? After all you mentioned many times that you did alot of tests for it, and it would be sad to let all that testing work die for nothing instead of taking the chance to contribute a totally new run never done before, especially when you already have testing experience on it, don't you think? EDIT: Ok, I thought moozooh managed to get over himself by now, but seems I was wrong again. Sorry for asking.
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Good 2-Player matches are much harder to create than the ones against CPU fighters. I only got 4 fights done in my Tournament demonstration, and was sick of it after that. If you have more patience in this difficult task, go for it. Of course you guys can continue that Tournament demo as well, so that we might get a complete team TAS of it, eventually. You decide the winner in any fight you are willing to contribute. As for the latest Guile run, a very nice one, Neophos. Seems like you found a nice trick by abusing the left+right option in a way that allows Guile to charge his Sonic Booms while still walking towards the opponent if facing left. This should allow for truly infinite combos, something I didn't thought would ever be possible in SSF2. All in all the run looks great so far, so good luck on further progress if you plan to finish it.
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I was actually in favour of not using the NewGame+ file for the "All Quests" run, since with inichi's new discovery to duplicate power, magic and speed tabs, you can beat the game pretty quickly without any leveling up at all. But Solon has a good point to use the NG+ one, because this allows you to show off all the cool single- double- and tripple techs you would never see in any other run. Even if it wouldn't be necessary faster than a legit run with the duplicate glitch, it would be much more entertaining because of the much higher variety. If using the SRAM file for NG+, I agree that it would be much better to use a legit one without cheats to get all the items and level ups in it, even if it wouldn't be provable in the end. Inichi's one is legit with a movie shown how it's done, but the downside is, it doesn't have every single double and tripple tech, and not every item. If you want a provable legit SRAM with all items and techs, you can always use the one I got at the end of my last 100% CT run before the final Lavos fight. The movie is available in the ZSNES section for verification, and since SRAM files are universal, you can load it just fine in Snes9x as well. The only downside in that SRAM is that I didn't got Level 99 (but close to 60), but most of the stats are pretty maxed out anyway, so it wouldn't really slow down the run. Of course the NG+ SRAM I used in my first CT TASes is legit too, but unfortunately not provable. So yeah, we have to weigh what is more important, a legit run that presents the duplicate glitch the first time ever, or a more entertaining run with the NG+ file. I would probably favour the latter thinking about that now, but only if every tech gets used at least once despite possible speed trade-offs.
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Just a useful hint for the few poor beings here: Don't make wrong conclusions as long as you don't have a clue about something. As surprising as it may sound, it's in fact often the other way around. It's fascinating to realize how low this site got due to neglecting to properly take care of it. Bisqwit seems to be very busy at the moment, so I don't blame him, but the fact that the substitutes proved me personally to be mannerless and thus useless for this task from scratch on, is sad. I really expected more of this. Anyway, I can only hope for the other members to not experience this on their own, especially after contributing some of their hard worked out stuff here. Although being attacked by a few idiots as a reward for this might be funny (you never learn out), it's not necessary what you would expect by a serious community overall. Thought I should let people know to be prepared for this, just in case. :-) And to sum up the obvious one more time:
Cardboard wrote:
"Don't TAS for ego or pride".
As hard to believe as it is, I TAS to contribute true quality runs done with alot of patience and knowledge for people to enjoy. There is nothing more about that.
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bkDJ: I just summed up everything that was said in the discusson thread before the rejection, to make things clear how they are, since mmbossman proved to ignore his own judge guidelines:
Judge Guidelines wrote:
Be open Collect opinions The audience has voice. If they don’t use it, encourage them to use it. Read what other people think of the submission.
As unfortunate to notice that this site slowly goes down in my eyes because of a few "well mannered" new members, and since the category limitation seems to be so serious here, I accept the rejection despite all the disadvantages it will have for the site. Anyway, I wish to thank moozooh for making a proper and well educated new description by linking to this submission from the 6% NBMB TAS, while also being short and informative to the potential watcher. I also thank mmbossman for not doing his own business, but rather make the description more confusing by removing a very informative term he fails to recognize due to being uneducatad in SM to understand what it means, despite many attempts to make it clear to him. And lasty I would like to thank the little smart-ass FractalFusion for abusing his own editor rights, by completely sabotaging the description, being offensive to the author, and even managing to add bullshit without any logic into it. Well done. In the interest of avoiding confusion to people, anybody mind to restore moozooh's well informative original description again?
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