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Damn, the very important glitch I wanna use for a 1/2 part of the whole game will lose his power at the latest before Mungola (the Puppet Show Boss in Gothica - 3rd world) so I will not be able to kill this boss, my foreward planning and calculation proved it. Now I have to think of another way as I planned before and maybe use another glitch I don't wanted to use before since this could cause problems later. Lets see what I can do here.
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Well ventuz you got me, in this case there are not 186 but 190 items possible!
I never charmed of the hunting range creatures except of Nu because I did it one time long ago but don't realized I get a extra 2 Petals, Horns... item for that, I just thought that its a normal item like the one of Nu which I get 3 times of every. And this way its much faster to get experience and this items.
I'm really surprised about this. Do anybody know more of such odd tricks?
About Swallow/Safe Helm: I take the Swallow in the chest and charm the Safe Helm of the Lavos Spawn in Black Omen to get both of them. Many rare and very expensive items I don't have cash for them to buy can be only gotten by charming so Ayla is definitely one of the 3 main characters I will use (besides she is the strongest, fastest and with the best defense character of the game - unavoidable)
A hint: You can load the last file of my zsnes movie (zm7) even on a windows ZSNES like the official version 1.42 of www.zsnes.com to see and compare all 186 items (170 + 16 equiped items). This file is just before lavos fight. Of course the movie will desync on this version but as a savestate you can use it on every emulator. Just play it back and cancell it imediately to have full controll to open the item menu then.
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Don't worry Tilus, I buy this formula in Nobilia! It costs me 150 Jewels though but its much faster than running down and cutting the bush to get it from Strongheart. Nitsuja is right I have to get every possible formula but will equip only the formulas I will use in the game so I don't have to unequip the useless ones later and can save time this way.
Nitsuja can you please reply me on my question I asked you yesterday?
"Nitsuja, do you mean if I record it on Volume Envelope Height Reading it will desync in random places after I playback it? If that is so, then it means you can't record this game with this setting for a correct playback at all, or how should I understand that?"
PS: I can't get the Cure Formula if I return to Strongheart later since he gives me another one then (Miracle Cure).
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Viewer wrote:
Unfortunately, the rules here state that a game can't be resumed from a save point for a movie, and NG+ equals that. So, even if Saturn was insane enough to do all that, it wouldn't be accepted.
Don't worry guys, with 100% I mean to get as much items as possible without NewGame+ and Its right 100% means at least 1 of every item not 99 and as much as possible of a item that I only can get temporary like the Third Eye which ups your evade rate 2x. This means I have to charm it from both Nitzbels and get it from the NU in hunting range so there are max 3 possible in one NewGame.
The best thing is I can get really every possible item (186 are possible in total) at least 1 time in a normal NewGame so I don't even need to do a NewGame+.
One exception: Of course I will not level up to level 99 since this would cost me about 4-5 hours more and because of that I have to skip the Pink Nu Form of Spekkio. But everything else will be done, the stats will be maxed out (with Power/Magic/Speed Tabs) of the 3 main characters I will use and the rest to the other 4 balanced, and of course I have to learn all Single/Double/Tripple Techniques with all characters, if done correctly it don't take me long to do that.
Honestly, If you really want to see a absolute perfect 100% walktrough in a - for a non tool assisted run awesome time of 9 hours and 9 min with absolutely everything perfect guaranted take a look at my latest, best and last movie I have done on ZSNES (so far) on www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/zsnesmovies.htm this movie is splitted up in 8 balanced parts (zmv-zm7) so you don't have to watch everthing from beginning if you missed something. If I will make a tool assisted run it will be almost the same like this one only even more optimized and Im really interested how many minutes/hours can be saved with this feature compared to this ZSNES masterpiece.
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I know the sound fade out a lot longer than on normal playing, the sound is exactly like in ZSNES I recorded a movie of this game. First I was very annoying about this but in the last time I got used to this sound and I began to like it even more than the original sound, best example after every enemy you kill you hear a long explode sound and it sounds very cool I think.
Nitsuja, do you mean if I record it on VEHR it will desync in random places after I playback it? If that is so, then it means you can't record this game with this setting for a correct playback at all, or how should I understand that?
But I myself have really no problem with the recording sound and I guess I won't record it again from beginning. Its just to much work I spended on this movie already, so I just can't do it.
By the way: the most exciting part (IMO) of the game is just ahead in the beginning of Antiqua. I will use a glitch to cross the dessert even faster than driving on the boat, can't do it anyway since I don't own the Amulet (driving ticket), then I have 15 min (after the 99 rice/spice secret only 10 min) to get everything in Nobilia and I will use another glitch who will help me at least for a 1/2 part of the whole game extremely otherwise I would be lost! If you don't know what I mean, be happy to get surprised later :-)
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To Phil: I would also prefer making on SNES, since it is a bigger game on size and snes is a newer system than nes, so I'm sure Chessmaster plays stronger on snes, therefore it will be harder to beat him.
I'm really surprised how many guys on a site like this know chess.
For those who are interested to play chess live (you can select the time control up to crazy 1 min per game) and many other games of skills against another human I recommend the best free livegame site on the net: www.gamecolony.com - The thrill of competition. I myself play there since 2000. So if you Deviance or someone else want to compare your real chess knowledge against me or whoever just tell it.
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Do you mean Terranigma? If yes, I haven't started yet as I said before I finnish Secret of Evermore first - made my latest update to WIP 4 yesterday, for those who wanna see: www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/snes9xmovies.htm
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nitsuja wrote:
Actually I think maybe I'd rather see a Seiken Detsetsu 3 run at this point, after seeing how well the other Secret of Mana/Evermore runs are coming along.
First a small correction: not Seiken Detsetsu but Seiken De_N_setsu :-).
Second in my opinion this game is by far more bad for a timeattack. Sure it is a great game too (I made a perfect movie walktrough for it on ZSNES) but in total the battles you have to do in this game are by far slower than on Terranigma (almost like in Chrono Trigger) after every battle the characters pull out their weapons and move only in slow speed to the enemies and you have to hit the enemies a lot to kill them, and I think the leveling up in this game is even more needed like in Terranigma because of the class changing (you can reach the final class only from level 38 or higher ---> in Terranigma I don't need a greater level than 31-32) and without the final class in SD3 you can't beat the last bosses because you don't get the needed skills and a higher defense so they can kill you in one single hit, plus the best armor/weapon is only equipable on the final classes. I ensure you that its impossible to beat the game in less than 5 hours no matter if 100% or not.
Terranigma is realy a nice game to timeattack, because the killing of enemies in right levels is very fast and as I said before I believe you can beat the game in less than 4 hours in any % and this is really fast for a RPG I think.
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Bag of Magic Food wrote:
See, this is why I'm baffled at how many people want to time-attack RPGs. You're going to have hundreds of boring battles no matter what you do.
Just want to say that at least my Secret of Evermore run will be without leveling up at all, so you don't have to be scared about that in this game.
Sorry for the very late writing, I just thought I say it now for better clarification about leveling up in this RPG. It's very hard to say (and maybe I'm wrong) but I believe that I can finnish Secret of Evermore in less than 3 hours recording time maybe even more faster, even on 100%.
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Defeated Magmar! The last round of hits was a very impressed 3 Hard Ball, 2 Flare (the last 2 Call Beads I had), a 100% Boy-attack and a 100% Dog-attack Combo to make exactly 1003 HP damage in total of all attack-rounds (only 3 HP more than Magmar owns, so it was extremely optimized to the limit). Also the big volcano-room costed me very much time to optimize the movements of boy and dog and to set the Vipers in a good position for me to pass them faster.
The progress of this run was a little slower last time because I was very busy in the last week. Now clear recording time exactly 26 min at the very beginning of the 2nd world (Antiqua). I also found out that I can save some frames (not many) buy tapping the run button in the correct frame, (turbo won't do) so Tilus you were right about it, I only lose frames if I tap the run button in the wrong frames, I didn't knew that before.
Movie updated to WIP4! www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/snes9xmovies.htm
PS: Added a savestate right after leaving the swamp (the semi last room of WIP 3)
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I agree. Sacrificing material as much as possible and set the CPU checkmate in as less moves as possible. That could be interesting if you understand something in chess.
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to feitclub: its the same ROM I used to make the movie. Use v6 of snes9x improved, Settings: left+right/up+down "ON", Fake Mute desync workaround "ON" all other settings "OFF" (WIP1 timing too).
to alex: I know you can make even more than 10 hit combos with Ken but I didn't used them since this looks too monotonous (only to use a low kick all the time, also it don't give many combo-points and costs to much time while making almost no damage to the opponent).
I liked your 2nd bonus round (to break the stones). I really thought my way using the hurricane kick all the time is the fastest possible but now I see yours mix makes the same time like mine.
For the first time you play this game your movie is pretty good!
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Well I guess I really have to kill some more enemies for cash and if I do it then of course only on the "Mad Monk" since one gives 75 jewels (150 talons) and this is really pretty in this part of the game. I honestly don't want to sell the Dino Skin at all costs since I have to buy it again anyway and selling it takes me some more seconds I could skip.
Cool Bumpy is right, I don't take every pot I could because there are items or ingredients that don't help me at all and I own some of them anyway. My 100% run must have at least 1 of all Armors or Collars, all charms/rare items, all formulas of course and also at least 1 of every trade good. Definitely will hold on 100% run since it is a 100% better choice and in the "Rules" or "Guidelines" is written that you never should miss your target only becuase of some problems, If I have decided to do 100% this would be very lame of me to cancell it only because of that, I have to manage the problems at all costs no matter what way.
About the 99 rice/spice trick: There is a trick to not waste any second for this secret! I just enter the Nobilia building and exit it again. Once I entered it the countdown of 15 minutes starts to run and even if I have to wait for the 99rice/spice this will be in the countdown that I have to wait anyway so I don't lose time here and I definitely want and have to make it because otherwise I have no chances at all to get everything with the money I have. Even with this trick it's still not enough as I mentioned before. But the problem is the 99 rice/spice trick takes 5 long minutes to me so I have 10 minutes instead of 15 left to get everything in Nobilia and this is the second problem since 10 min will be extremely close to get everything.
OK I will include a savestate after every new world, but I still am in prehistoria and still have to decide what exactly to buy in Fire Eyes village for the big fight against Magmar. As I said before I will try to buy even less crystals and manipulate luck to the absolute limit to pass this hard situation with this small amount anyway.
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Thank you CoolBumpy I watched it, nice site but after all the time this is really nothing new for me, I found myself so many glitches and tricks (in the 90's with some buddies before I even had internet) and searched the net later too but don't found anything I didn't know before myself.
I stuck. The money is not enough. I have played foreward till Nobilia and there I have about 200 Jewels less than I need. Now I have to buy even less crystals I wanted before, and have to manipulate luck more extremely so that it still should be enough to beat Magmar. A very hard situation for me now.
And hey, luckyly in Secret of Evermore is not much time needed to get 100% items since you can get the most on the way foreward and don't have to take long detours, but this game is definitely worth a 100% run since it has a lot of very interesting and hard to find secrets.
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nitsuja wrote:
Are you saying ZSNES originally recorded more than just the button input for each frame? Because regular compression does not change anything, just as zip compressing it afterwards doesn't change it, and Snes9x does not compress its movie data at all anyway.
Hmmm strange, then maybe ZSNES recorded really more than just player input don't know, if you understand something of hex-editing tags or whatever, you could just analyze a zmv file of zsnesv0.989c (for example one of my movie files) with a hexeditor, because I don't know. I only know that I can trust to this emulator in every way since all my movies I made on this emualtor stayed deathly safe in sync no matter what game and how long.
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nitsuja wrote:
Is there any way to tell this version of ZSNES to resume playing a movie partway through (with save states) or a way to increase its fast-forward speed higher than 9 skipped frames per frame?
No, even in newer versions there is no such feature so far. But on speed up in DOS mode of zsnes v0.989c if you set in VIDEO options to MODEX and remove VSYNC or MMX Support I managed to speed up the movie so much that it takes about 3 sec for 1 min in realtime so its not 9 times faster but full 20 times faster!
nitsuja wrote:
But from what I saw so far, there must be at least an hour or so of pure leveling up, and I'm not convinced it really saved any time compared to the time spent on it.
Well maybe 1 hour max in whole game but not more.
nitsuja wrote:
If leveling up is really necessary, then I think it would be faster to skip some weaker enemies and level up only on the stronger enemies when necessary (even though it takes longer to kill them, they do give more EXP). I'm pretty sure that leveling a lot is not the fastest way through the game, even though it seems like it and the game was designed that way.
Honestly I thought exactly as you before, scip weak enemies and kill only the stronger ones. The problem is the difference of experience is not that high like the time to kill them, for example if you kill the "Dignal" (The Demon in RA-Tree) in the beginning of the surface world to safe the plants, you get 15 exp per one. Now much later in Louran (death town) you get 18 till 20 exp points for one enemie, its really not much difference but brings up a much harder way to kill them. You will have so much problems to kill them (on low level) that you will be faster if you would kill the demons in ra tree instead.
It's really hard to explain but even if my way of leveling up is still not optimal its definitely faster than just concentrating on harder enemies for more exp (what I wanted before myself). I suggest you experiment yourself to kill late enemies on low level to understand what I mean.
nitsuja wrote:
Actually, for bosses that need strong hits to beat like you mentioned, maybe magic would save time (if there are any spells that do large damage). Magic damage doesn't depend on your level, right?
Wrong! Magic depends very much on your level (I guess even ONLY on your level) and the problem is on some bosses you even can't use magic (like the Final Boss) and THIS is on the fish-boss in marmaid tower the case too. So you can ony beat him with physical attacks and have to be at least on level 21-23, I guess lower than 21-20 will take a damage not greater than 10HP per hit but the damage rate increases extremely after every better level from this point on.
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michael flatley wrote:
I'm operating under the assumption that a re-record feature in zsnes will never come because there are still some synchonization issues that have persisted for years now.
Wrong! ZSNES once had the best movie recording feature of all emulators. My longest recording was a 51 hour (yes, you read it right) movie during 1 month and it STILL was perfect and without sync errors at all after I playbacked it! Sadly ZSNES has changed the movie recorder after version 1.01 because the older versions had very large movie files (about 5 MB per hour) and they wanted to compress them like snes9x so they changed the movie recorder, and this was (IMO) the biggest mistake they did so far since the the new movie recorder has so much sync errors (because of compression of the .zmv files) that you can't record longer movies or trust to the recording in sacrifice your time to be sure it will be in sync. I myself would recommend to take the older movie recorder (best and most tested of me and some of my internet-buddies is ZSNES v0.989c) and try to improve it from this version since the newer movie recorder are in every version a little different and have many more new sync errors than fixes (only in movie recording, since all other features have been improved). In compressed movies snes9x is best so far (compared to the extremely small sice of the movies its a great work the programmers did) thanks to the many inofficial programmer like nitsuja and other, because of you guys this emulator has become the best in movie-making (even I myself agree now since I made tons of movie on ZSNES before) but in picture and movements ZSNES is still the best so far.
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Nice to hear Zer0. I haven't a clue how VDMSound works because I never needed that since I can playback DOS on my system anyway but maybe I will notice it on my site later after I have analyzed it a little if I have time.
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nitsuja wrote:
Oh, well I'm interested in seeing both runs so that's ok. But, I wonder, how would a minimalist Terranigma run go? I seem to recall some of the bosses taking a long time to kill unless you're leveled up enough, but on the other hand I think leveling up was a really slow process too, so maybe low-level is the faster way to go.
Definitely Wrong! I did this experience myself and the fact is if your level is not high enough because you skip to beat the weak enemies in earliy parts of the game you will have big problems even against normal enemies in later parts of the game and since they give more experience so that you can level up faster you will not be able to defeat them fast enough so that the time is worth for them to kill. Lets say you skip ALL enemies and don't level up at all then at least in the mermaid tower (just before you get a ship of a seaman) you will be caught and trapped since to beat the purple fish boss you need strong hits because he runs away after every single hit and you have to wait about 10-20 sec for the next hit you can do to him, and if you damage him to 2-3 HP each time of his more than 150 you can calculate yourself how many time you will lose. The leveling up is a MUST in Terranigma if you don't do that you lose much more time in the result, my promise. Just see my 100% speed run on www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/zsnesmovies.htm for a perfect example for leveling up to the best times.
nitsuja wrote:
(Fortunately, leveling is a choice, unlike Crystalis.) And, are there any situations where magirocks/spells would be worth the time it takes to get and use them, or anything else that needs to be bought in the game?
No collecting magirocks or use magic definitely don't help to make the run faster in one situation a bone pin is usefull (in Norfest Forest to escape from Storkolm quickly) but this needs only 1 magirock which you will have anyway. But for a 100% run you have to find all.
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well, I bought only the weakest armors (only temporary available) because the same seller will sell other armors after I have defeated Salabog so if I don't buy them now I never get them again. Because I make a 100% run I have to get all possible armors (defensive items) and all items anyway (at least 1 of each). The Dino Skin I want to sell Is a Armor that I earned after beating the 3 Raptors in a cave and I can buy this Armor later again.
I don't equip them because its a waste of time in making a timeattack on 100% I just have to buy them so that I own them now.
Don't had much time today but since the Salabog fight costed me very much time to optimize every single bomb and call bead I used on him I update my movie to WIP 3 anyway. www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/snes9xmovies.htm
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Defeated Salabog! The last attack was a 13-hit combo (8 Hard Balls + 5 Storms) which made a 945 HP damage at once so it was enough to beat him (1063+945 = 2008HP) I even have 1 call bead left. Now I have to think how many crystals I have to buy for the upcoming last fight in prehistoria against Magmar. The biggest problem is the money now, since I need some of it in Nobilia to buy everything that is possible since I have to wait 15 minutes till the big meeting anyway, so I can save time if I get all items in this waiting time. The problem is if I exchange Talons in Jewels I get only the 1/2 of them and I need at least 1100 (2200 talons) so maybe I even have to sell my Dino Skin for 225. I will analyze the situation carefully now so that I have enough money to the right times.
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nitsuja wrote:
Does 100% in this game include getting every alchemy formula? I'm not sure how much stuff that seems unnecessary is being done in order to satisfy this 100% completion.
definitely. The Alchemy Formulas are one of the most important things you can get in the game.
I have good chances now to beat Salabog. I damaged him to 1063 HP so far and have 9 Hard balls left which are on level 3 now (stronger) and 6 callbeads, with optimum use I can reach 400HP with Balls and 600HP with call beads so it should be enough to beat him with the last item I have. If possible I will include even a dog-bite after the balls for about 20HP more damage. Im confident now.
PS: during the fight I even have to playback the movie after everytime the boss comes out of the swamp since sometimes he comes out on another place.
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I see you guys realize the problems of this game very good
to Milandry:
I completed the game so many times from start to end that I can't count that anymore. Yes its my first run on snes9x but if I know a game really good than it is Secret of Evermore.
Of course I know that I have to pick up a exact number of items I need, of course I know that if I can buy 20 Clays at once it's faster, but there are 2 reasons why I pick them up anyway. 1st one is the cash. If I don't fight enemies at all I have only cash I find or get from the bosses and it is that less that I have to buy the absolute minimum of ingredients and only the ones I need (Clay and Crystal for Hard Ball). The 2nd reason is because I wanna show people the optimal way to get a ingredient u need, best example is the Mammoth grave (where I fight the Vipers). I got 16 clays there mostly 3 till 4 clays at once but it works only if you pick up a another special ingredient before (in this case the roots during Heat Wave) so this is a small secret too. But mainly its becuase of the very limited cash I need to get things that I can't buy in later parts (like the 3 weakest armors).
To Tilus:
1st, Im not sure what exactly you mean but I answer to 2 situations: at the very beginning right after talking with fire eyes first time and naming the dog I went to the ingredient seller (he has the most expensive prices in prehistoria on ingredients) to pick up 3 clays. You can't buy clay before you defeat Thraxx - giant bug, so I had to find them as much as I need to have enough hard balls to defeat him, all 18 were needed so it was perfect. Then after Thraxx I took many items from boxes like the very expensive nectar to sell it later and get the needed cash for ingredients and then (guess you mean this) I bought 6 essences for 15 each to sell it for 75 later on this way I win 60 talons for 1 = 360 in total, this is the best way to get many cash fast since the enemies don't give that many in prehistoria.
2nd, about running, thats wrong that rapidly tapping run is faster. Everytime you change from run to walk it costs about 1 frame delay. I myself have realized that if I try to tapp the run button as seldom as possible it will be faster if you do it correctly. I have calculated in which frame it was optimal to press the run button after walking so that I mostly run to the end of a screen and leave it with 0% left. The more often you press the run button the more frames you get delay in the result.
Now I have a BIG problem: I have reached the Swamp-Boss (Salabog) and now it is extremely close depending on my amount of hard balls and call beads, I have to manipulate luck to make each bomb doing as much damage as possible because on normal way it will not suffice to kill the boss. Of his 2000 HP I do with my current amount (bombs and call beads) 1800 max on normal way in total so I have to think how can I optimize it to the last 200. If its impossible I have to go back to the village and buy more Crystals for more hardballs. I will try everything to prevent this, so lets see what I can do.