It's made with snes9x improvement9, if you're using that I have no idea.
Yes i use too that ^^ I'll do smv of other games later ( fast walkthrough or crazy demos or 100% walkthrough ) so it was better for me to already take this ^^
How much do you gain by cannoning to pandora after the thieves story. I think it's not much, but you could start leveling gnome on the way.
So you have to go at dwarf village INN ?
Do you will use reset ? Reset after this night then use Rope and it will work ( if not to use Rope will put you at the begin of Fire Palace ).
For leveling on the way, in all honestly i don't know, you can't move very far while Sprite is spaming. I think to go directly to Pandora is faster.
From what I've seen so far I think ignoring sylphid would be faster. You use it on two enemies, the snake and minotaur. I tested it, undine does the same amount to both enemies as sylphid does as you arrive there. For the snake you'd be slower by about one cast, a TAS would have to make that up by either hitting it, crit it, or ensure that each cast is at max damage. For minotaur, the difference is similar small, your casts failed a few times and did only 18 damage instead of 80. The difference would be maybe one cast, if at all. The huge difference comes in when you reach ice island. You have to level undine. If you kill the snake with her, leveling will be cut down. You also have to buy a walnut from that mafia cat, which the other version will not, making up for the money you gain from leveling. The only problem I see so far is, if the 2 levels you gain from leveling sylphid there will give you the 12th mana point.
But even if it work for Gold Tower it can be hard, Blue Spike require lots of casts and if Undine doesn't work very good with Minotor #2 it would be not possible. I have to see that.
IIRC the only boss after this point but before getting luna that would be killed with sylphid is the second minotaur. Your opinion?
Unfortunately no you need too sylphid for the worm #2, the first boss of Pureland =(
But perharps Undine works too. I'll see that.
Nuts/Ice Palace : Unfortunatly, i think you need to go to this mafia cat before Ice Palace.
If undine is 3.00 ( max ) before Boreal Face, you'll need 3 series of spam, so you'll need your currents MP+2nuts, then you have 2 nuts for Ice Palace, which is insuffisant, you need lots of MP for to skip the second form of the 3 tonpoles, then you'll need 2 series against Gigas Frost, so 2 nuts because your currents MP are at 0. It's possible only if you don't use MP against the 3 tonpoles, but it will be faster to go to this mafia cat. And it's not even sure because i use 2 full series against Gigas Frost but Salamando comes to L1 sooner because i used it against the 3 Tonpoles.
- There is a shortcut everywhere where one directional slides are build, like the entrance room of the fire temple. I know you can push yourself up those slopes by hitting with the gloves repeatedly, but it's time consuming since you have to do it with all three characters and doesn't even make sense here, because you only skip one orb. But are there other spots where it can be applied?
There is the Tree Palace with steps and interruptors just behind but if i remenber correctly they don't work this way, you need to take the full way, developpers seem to had see that, but i'll verify that.
I tested the exp trick right after your movie ended. Killing the girl 5 times boosts the characters to the insane level of 36. At this point the sprite has 28mp. That should reduce your need for walnuts. *drool*
Yes ^^ But like you i will not abuse glitch ^^
- The fourth claw gives +1 INT/+1 WIS. I don't know the mechanics of this game, but if this increases magic damage by a significant amount it might be worth to get this claw. - EDIT: forget about that. I don't notice any difference.
Ok ^^ Me too i never see utility of all these things in menu stats, if someone has a FAQ how it works Oo ?
Oh and your run is clearly more entertaining during bosses. I think I'll adopt some of that when the magic abuse starts. I'll not do that on tropicallo, getting the crits is hard enough without flying pumpkin bombs...
Yes ^^ Actually Gigas Frost was the hardest boss. Because he doesn't have to teleporte himself, all his damage sort are collectives and ice saber is very crap, he just have to do freeze breath on Randi or Purim.
I don't know what to think about Gigas Thunder Oo even is spam with gnome will be easier than with fireball.
Sounds a little like what I was describing. Try to let go of A before you make the switch if it really is the same thing.
No now i see what you mean but me that's just a crap/useless thing, which can force you to re-record more =(
I saw yet your full TAS but i can't open dashing : it tells me "movie format is wrong".
Your TAS is really very good.
Remenber my smv is only a fast walkthrough, not a TAS. But smv becomes better with time while you are playing it.
I have Flammy in 1h47 ( movie lenght )
So i have now to go to Shadow Palace, then to have a long fight against the boss, then to have to go to Gold Tower+to have the key before to go indoor. Perharps i will have Lumina in 2h.
After that there is Luna, then the espion of Tasnica, then there are the 3 clones+the full mountain to climb before, and perharps Luna training before to go to Aegagropilion. I don't think Secret of Mana can be finished under 3h if we don't go to the Tree Palace under 2h10, i don't think i can do that but perharps you can do it with TAS. Hexas and Mech Rider 3 will be very long, then Pureland will be very fast, then i don't what about final training, then there is Mana Forteress very fast till Dark Lich which will be the nightmare of the TAS, Mana Beast will not be so hard.
The link ( 905 KB, smv no zipped ) :
http://rapidshare.de/files/23599785/Secret_of_Mana.smv.html
Do left click then click on Free then wait count down.
When i replayed my movie i saw errors but i was too lazy for to replay from a too old position, it's a smv for to help me for to plan a speed run.
However, you guess sometimes what you have to do for TAS or you can have new ideas. It remains interresting to watch while waiting your TAS ^^ With 3 char TAS will be really impressive ^^
I don't know why but i always forgot to give a nuts to the Sprite after a boss fight, so i give him later in the best way even if just before the boss death is the fastest.
For char switching, i discovered too something wierd : you know the advantage when you play alone is when you run the 2 others follow you without to go to 0%, but sometimes, just after switching ( after running with one of them ), the new char you are controlling go to 0% after you take his control... and it can do that even if he walks a little after to run ( when i tried to find a solution ) while you were controlling the other...
edit : Flammy is hard to speed ! It's here i stopped movie, you have the optimal way to found each time but you have to take in consideration you are flying while you're turning left or right at the begin !
I will post smv tomorrow, sorry.
It's because i have a little pc for net at my parents house and one other big pc in my appartement ( i can't have net here )for games/apps/etc... and i did smv here sorry.
Oh, and 1h40 is movie lenght, i don't know how you count real time played ? It's the same method for TAS and speed run ?
I stopped against the vampire because i was too tired to wait high magical damage...
Hey saturn when it will be finished would do you upload it on your smv site ?
Will Zophar host it ? I saw the last upload is 2003 Oo ( seiken 3 ).
Just after Pandory i found a very good way dangerous in speed run but very good for TAS : when you leave the town, go left, then run up/left between the mushroom and the flower ^^ And you will skip the other flower at the end of the run ( she try to hit you but you skip her without the miss animation ^^ )
Yes don't go in the shop. To buy that doesn't allow you to skip one cycle with Tropicallo. Hmm if you let 3 bombs in the sky folowing with this boss you can have heavies bugs ( crap general chipset showed ) when they or one of them explose.
3 rabbits : one hit ( 18 Damage ) + 1 dash ?
In my smv i let die Sprite+Girl before Spikey Tigger, it's faster in the castle for speed run but i don't know for TAS.
Spikey Tigger goes at least one time on one of the 2 plateforms, there is nothing to do against that.
The first worm will not be a so big matter, movements are just unskippable, just guess randomly his future position for air blast.
I forgot you'll use Thunderbolt for the Second worm ( Pureland ) ^^
I found a good thing with the 3 Tonpoles at Ice Palace.
They have really 600 HP but turned in second form if they go to 299/600 or less. Put them at 300-330/600 with fireball then spam them with Girl+Sprite for 300-330 damage in one time and you skip the second form ^^
Unfortunately there is definitely nothing to do for the first just before Undine.
For critical hit before spam serie don't worry, it will be better to wait good magical damage.
Names : Randi A Sprite Z Purim B is the best in my opinion.
I will search the best path for to put sword at level 1 later.
There is an other hard thing : sometimes there are monsters which doesn't appears at all on the map ( like the rabbit at the end of the first room forest ), so it will be sometimes required, the apparition depends of your very last input just before the first pixel of the monster showed, but you can have to stop your run but there are 2 other char even if they can be not again at 100%.
There is a new table exp on gamefaqs
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/secret_of_mana_xp.txt
I will make a txt TAS FAQ for Boss/GP when my smv will be completed.
I am currently against the first vampire in 1h40 and a TAS will not be really faster ( 1h30-1h35 min ). Finally, i really don't know if the game can be finished under 3H. It will be very close, it's because of the last magics trainings...
edit : yes Gorash thanks for Tropicallo tips, i discovered that too while making my smv ^^
edit2 : precision for my 1h40 time : at the begin of my smv i just wanted to do a fast walkthrough but now it's a very fast walktrough, at the very begining of the i didn't used slow speed/re-record ( except re-record for name entry ), i said that because i have a wrong down input after the first input down/left run, i had fun with 3 bombs while Tropicallo fight ( i tried a path with no underground cycle but nothing to do ), one error menu unvolontary keeped against Jabberwack ( i was too lazy for to restart at this point when i saw the error with smv playing ), a few unmaximised spam ( just a few frames wasted ), and for room ennemies, i just did the best path the game gives me -) don't worry it's just i don't wait best initial monster position ( except Borealia fight, he must appears on the down of the screen ) like Zero TAS.
That's just a few precision, you know i don't do a TAS but it's just for to understand a few things.
But it remains really fast. TAS will be very impressive with 3 char, because you'll see huge luck manipulation in each ennemie room with char switching/run/missed ennemies hit/wait a few frames/etc...
Ok for A and B ^^
Sword Level 1 : Yes you must find the perfect way for this.
Do you go to the shop ?
The 5 first boss need critical hits ?
You mean the 4 first boss and 5 with the second form of the 4th ?
You need too critical hit against Killroy, then use undine for to finish it.
For zero i didn't mean time for to kill the 2 werewolf but total time begin-)end of the fight with these guys ^^
In a TAS you just need sword at level 1 before Tropicallo, don't bother with GOLD/EXP... You just need 100 GP for Watts ( and Mantis Ant gives you 100 GP ) then again 100 GP after the fight with Tropicallo but Tropicallo give you 132 GP ^^ You just need find the fastest way to put the sword at level 1.
I think it's slower to buy the 150 GP weapon at the shop, it takes the time to collect 150 GP ( - the GP which the monsters give you when you are leveling up the sword at 1 ), + the time to go in the shop + equipement.
No i'm thinking about it, do you will make critical hit on the 3 little boss in the Ice Palace while the Sprite is spamming one of them ?
Critical Magic Hit -) For to go to 900+ or 999 DEG with the minimal number of cast spelled ^^ Sometime for that for example you need one time 4X spell and one other time 5X. You have to manipulate that too but it's harder because magical DEG doesn't depend of each imput but it depends of the input(s ?) you are doing while boss gets controll of itself. If not magical DEG are always the same ( when you are re-recording ).
When you are playing a movie on SNES9x midified by your team, you can see frame count if you want.
What about a re-recording count ?
Not like XXX/Total like the Frame but just like XXX ? It will be interresting for the viewer of the run, for to see waht was hard for the TASer even if doesn't take in consideration slow speed ?
I am starting to do a fast walkthrough of the game. It is just for to quickly create savestate at a wanted place, for tests for tas and speed run. It's with min level for right tests.
I use re-recording + savestats just a little, this way it's not boring to watch ( for the people who just want to see that as a walkthrough ).
I don't wait to have any critical damage at the boss, but you can have ideas for tas run when you watch it ^^
After to take the sword at the begin of the game, you have 2 forest rooms till your village. At the end of the first room, you have a rabbit which causes matter : with a hit you can go under the rabbit ( he takes 0 deg and a bugged jump, while he's jumping go under it, i say the jump is bugged because he's jumping very up, sometime till the top up screen ).
And for the fastest completion the best way to up the sword at level 1 must be partially done with the rabbit after to take the sword, but a triple critical hit on 3 rabbit in the same is perharps humainly impossible even with emulator because it will take an eternity Oo. Or not if you find the way to have critical hit, i see it's what your are doing ^^
I am currently at the Wind Palace under 1H, hum perhaps finally we can finish it under 3H, the matter is the final training before the Mana Forteress, i'll see if you can beat the final boss without Dryad at level 4, perharps you can have randomly and with luck longer sort ( in time, like Mana Sword ), it will be the biggest improve if it's possible.
In how many time Zero kill the 2 werewolf ? I don't find anymore the vid
I know your own run is the best for your savestats but you need sometime verify in a future place what you can do because perharps a trick used in a current place make impossible tricks in futures rooms, so it can be a huge waste time with slow speed+re-record for nothing.
I don't take the chest in Randi's House, i don't kill all these green ennemies, i don't go to the shop.
After to kill the 2 werwolfs zero is at 20min ( perharps i don't remenber correctly ) and i am at 19 min at this point. You can do even really better, my vid is just a fast walkhtrough ^^
I have enough gold for to buy the 2 nuts in the same time at Neko's House just before to kill the boss with 2 heads at the Water Palace.
Ho and 3 earth slide are not always enough for to kill the bird before the wind palace, in my vid it don't even 600 DEG this time... So i use diamond for 4th speel because i have 11 PM ^^
In the palace of fire gigas i kill the ennemies in the first room for gold for nuts before the worm ( the boss after the bird ) but it's not necessary ( i just see it now ).
In the first room of the Water Palace ( indoor ) when you have the monster, apparently, you can't manipulate initial position of the monster so the last monster of the room seems always to stop you running... Sometimes he doesn't move, sometime he hits you but he's always here...
For critical hit, unfortunately i forgive you will need to that for magic and it's really harder than physical hit...
And do you will make the screen bug in your TAS run ? The bug when you go in a another room just after to call a spell ( i don't do that in my walkthrough ) ? Sometimes it can be cancelled with to repeat that, but sometimes it doesn't that and sometimes the bug is 50% removed. It's pathetic to watch but in a TAS... What do you think about it ?
Ho and now i perharps discovered the two biggest matters for TAS, there are the 2 boss worm : you'll need to spam them perfectly with the Sprite but it will be very hard, theorically the 2 worms haven't to move. But perharps it's not so hard, i'll see with re-record...
And i don't think TAS Secret of Mana can be done alone, it will take to time for critical hit physical/magical perharps people can help for a few critical hit ? I can help if a precise position ( in a boss fight ) make you too busy if you want ^^
I believe so, I thought I was impressed with 5 hours on SDA until I watched it. I saw many mistake in it, one of biggest mistake I saw is him running out entire witch castle after defeating tiger. He could just talk to witch to warp to entrance instantly. So it should be under 3 hours on TAS easily.
Yes but it's not sure you can do TAS under 3H ^^ My estimation for TAS is 3h10.
I take about 20 min ( like TAS of zero ) for to go after the 2 werewolfs, there are big mistakes in my first run, but i don't think they take so time, i am improving my run, but PAL-)NTSC ( 50-)60Hz ) remains the biggest improve so far, i don't want ANY mistake in my new run, but i need too tricks, in fact i am planing if it's faster to buy power weapon in shop like Zero did in his TAS run but i don't think. Explanations :
To go in the shop take lots of s : to enter, to speak and to leave the shop ( 2X loading ) + Equipement. It's perharps totally useless in a TAS ( i think ) because for each fight it's like you purchase a critical hit ( you skip 1 or 2 hit at each fight, perharps 1 for tropicallo, 0 for the 2 werwolf, 1 for tigger, 2 or 3 for the boss#4 with 2 form ( and error for the first form in the manual, he hasn't 600 HP but about 300HP and the second has 770HP ok ) 1 or 2 for the first robot ( you use too undine magic ). But you divide all of that per 2 if we suppose you do a critical hit at each time in a TAS run ( and it will be again easier when you have Purim and Popoie, you have more random last imput to do for to manipulate luck while barr go to 100% after the last critical hit ).
And to play with 1 player is faster than 2 or 3 ( when you are running the 2 other chars don't use their barr when they are following you ), i don't understand what's your multitap matter ( for zero tas run ).
Few improvements for TAS run like Zero or other ask :
-)Better way to take the sword ( more right/up )
-)Don't kill all these green ennemis, just up sword at level 1 by the fastest way, perharps you can kill the 2 bat at the first room of gaia navel by 1 critical hit i don't remenber, and kill the rabbit X3 with a critical it at the begin of the game, you can to push 1 or 2 of them with luck manipulation for to kill 3 at the same time.
-)Don't go in the Shop
-)Call the girl "Z" or "A" but no "C" ( slower lol ^^ ).
---) You need to kill only 10 ennemis for to level up the sword there are the first boss 1*0.09 +10*0.09=0.99=1.00 in the game, finally.
And just one thing, the moves of zero after to reach pandora isn't luck manipulation, i thought but it is just for to don't nothing while waiting the mushroom do left-)right, it works each time on SNES, but i think it's faster to do like in my run, I'll see that too.
edit : and there are other way to manipulate luck on snes, example :
At the the first room of gaia navel with the bast, when you can controll randi run as fast as you can left/up and you run against the wall, and stop before to reach the end of the vertical part, then just go up and the 2 bats will never use magic, i tested it lots of time time and it worked at each time. I am searching a way to manipulate the green ennemi before to take the magic item at gaia navel, i am sure it is possible ^^
But each time it must be a trick which need perfect input per frame only at the begin, if not, it's humainly impossible :( Last imputs are resetting at each warping, but not for a translation door, like at gaia navel, example, the door just before the green ennemi which is before the magic item.
Other thing : i can't do that in the Tree Palace, if you do that ( with for example sword charged at level 1 ), nothing happens. You need to take the true way.
You are sure you can hack the rom for TAS run Oo ??
The 50 canon is a fake, other rumors/true trick in this french page :
http://www.squarepalace.com/dossiers/secretofmana/rumeurs/rumeurs.php
I will post all i know for full run later, i am just planing a few thing for to see what is faster or not, because i am planing thing on SNES which are tototally useless for TAS run so it will not be interresting ^^
edit2 : What's a 100% run for you ? The 2 extra items + to kill the 2*2 wall ? The extra story at the phare ? To take each chest orb/gold even if it dissapears at the end ? To force each non playable char's dialog untill they tell you the same thing ? To have the perfect inventory/stats ?
With SDA rules i think you just need the 2 extra items.
edot3 : Culden what about your walkrought run ? I already use you first run for to test way but I will do my own walk run for to use savestats for to test lots of thing ( like low level magic spam ), i just want if you run is leveling up like the first, if it's the case i will do my own walk low level but it will not be a TAS but sure it will be under 4H, in fact there will not are any mistake+the way of my run but it will not be a perfect run like Zero's TAS.
Yes you're right for "fireballs" but it's for me too hard and too dangerous in my speed run ^^
Undine is easier for me ^^
But now magic isn't a matter for me don't worry about ^^
The other others attacks of salamando cost 3 and 4 PM it's too for me.
My new record is actually 6h15 ( played alone and not including the credits but including the introduction ).
I have finished secret of mana more 200 times since my chilhood but i don't know if salamando of the girl decrease ennemis stats, i know just ennemis burn ??
Well thanks for all your conseils =)
Finally i use undine for dark lich because it's my highest level and i used before that undine for all the boss who haven't weakness ^^
And "fireball" of salamando is a too long animation : you must wait the end of animation before to do new "fireballs". It's bad for to spam the boss.
And i use always magic for the boss, with sword it's too long.
Finally i can finish this game under 6h20 ^^
I will be perharps able to record it in the nexts days ^^
Secret of Mana - PAL - French - On SNES ( not emulation )
I can finish this game under 7 H, perhaps 6H30.
I needs tricks for a better time with this boss : Dark Lich.