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feos wrote:
Is easiest password actually the fastest known password?
It's the fastest one I could find. Maybe someone could do better, with some more in depth understanding of the game code. Either way, it's not gonna be easy to improve.
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I also agree with the two rules proposed in the first post. However, there is still a little matter that needs to be sorted out...
#7485: ThunderAxe31's GB Rolan's Curse "password, game end glitch" in 04:04.80#6092: ThunderAxe31's GB Rolan's Curse "hardest password, game end glitch" in 04:36.89
Should one of these be accepted? Which one? Maybe both of them? Maybe for different classes?
My idea is accepting "easiest password" for Standard because it's the fastest, and accepting "hardest password" for Moons because it's more about being fancy with a self-imposed challenge (maybe it doesn't meet the Moons entertainment requirement, but I have a major "improvement" in the works, stay tuned 😉)
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I have an improvement movie for this submission: User movie #637874423713011500
Of which 6 frames where saved due to better "optimization", and 14 were lost due to setting GBA mode for console verification.
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However the score is irrelevant here, and there's no point in encoding how the times maxes out.
Well, doesn't the encode need to include proof that the challenge was actually exausted? When you judged the movie, you had to make sure that the player didn't die after stopping inputs. After all, even if there are no enemy spawn zones near the boat, an enemy could still theoretically glitch out their physics and miraculously kill the player later.
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I have a different idea: removing Rejection altogether and instead use Cancellation for the purpose. Authors would still able to cancel or uncancel their submission, however the senior judges may be able to lock a submission if they deem that an author isn't giving proper arguments against a verdict. Just like moderators lock a thread when the discussion stops being constructive.
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TrueSnokido, when editing the submission, please check the option "Minor Edit" in the bottom right, before hitting "Update" button. That way, there won't be bot notifications broadcasted in the Discord server for the edits.
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
How do you calculate the differences? How does X% difference affect you as a viewer? Why is there a line where two games which is "the same" according to the staff is allowed to be coexist under a different class?
We consider stuff like these:
Different game mechanics featured (playable character, weapons used, level sets, etc.)
Special self-imposed goals (don't use X weapon or Y button)
Different overall route or glitches showcased.
Note that the "50" number is just indicative. The edge cases are considered on a case-to-case basis, of course.
As for the reason why, is because we want to promote movie diversity as much as possible. Otherwise casual viewers will lose interest. This is one of the main reasons why creating Playground was necessary: we could not simply start accepting whatever redundant movies in the already existing publication system.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
If I understand what the staff wants, they want to make the "common" ROM version to be featured while the other uncommon ROM version to be exist under a different name. Why? Why is this a desired thing?
Nope, that's not it. We don't look at how much a ROM is "common". It's more a matter of autenticy: regional conversions are considered less faithful to the original intent of the game developers. However, I have to acknowledge that this policy is very old, and it could be a good idea to discuss possible changes. After all, we already allow picking obscure game revisions just for the sake of abusing specific glitches that were introduced or patched out later.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding how does the original Nintendo developers creation of the same game released in different places which might includes different code/environment that results in different time of completion affects a TASer's choice of ROM to be called as whatever (currently Playground) while the other one is simple what it is?
If two games use different framerate, and the game engine was adjusted in order to be kinda similar to the original version, then it becomes impossible to compare two runs and decide which one if faster. So we have to either accept both as separate publications, or keep just one of them published.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
edit: forgot to write my decision. If I would be a judge, I would accept NTSC SMB (one if not the most famous TAS of this site) and PAL SMB as two different TAS and NTSC only obsoletes NTSC while PAL only obsoletes PAL. No need to make different tiers/class for this TAS.
Sorry, that's not how our judging system works. When making a judgement that would set a new precedent, a judge should first consult with the other judges, and get to a verdict only after that the whole judges team is in complete agreement. Until that, we keep discussing every possible approach or rule update that could solve any doubt. That's why some judgements may take months. We don't do stuff like giving absolute decision rights to the judge who claimed a submission first. And we don't simply shut down a judge that disagrees to a decision, either.
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
By the way, there is a game I played about 15 years ago or so, a space vertical scroller, for NES probably, in which at some point you have to fight a face which is immune to any attacks and you die all of a sudden for apparently no reason if you don't keep moving. The boss dies by himself if you keep yourself alive for enough time.
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Don't think too hard about it, we can always replace a the movie file of a submission for you, without problems. Stay easy ✌
It would be an issue if the new movie file required major extra work for the author, or if it resulted in a completely different viewing experience for the audience, but since we're talking about just 11 frames here, it's barely worth mentioning.
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
What does this TAS does to call it a playground? Isn't this is just a PAL TAS?
First off, Playground isn't a tier, but a class. And the reason why this movie is now in Playground is because it's not acceptable for the movie rules.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
Edit: personal opinion as NOT a staff member: PAL TASes of games with different mechanics should be handled the same way as a different game, not a different movie tier. For example NES Rygar should have both while some other might not for example NES Dragon's Lair and flat out same games with fewer FPS rejected as it only has advantages of being slower.
This submission was, in fact, "handled the same way as a different game". In order to be published as a separate branch, a movie needs to feature at least 50% unique gameplay contents (except for any% vs 100%). And when we have to choose between NTSC and PAL version, we prefer to pick the first one that was produced. This is because regional TV format requires for a game engine to undergo program modifications, which results more or less unfaithful to how the game was originally designed. So in the case of SMB, the NTSC is preferred over PAL for a matter of authenticity, even though the PAL version resulted in a (slightly) faster movie.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
Yeah I know it. What I don't know is what the hell is playground tier is if this TAS is the first one to be recognized as such.
Beside what GMP noted, Playground is designed to expand the publication space for featuring movies that are very unorthodox and niche.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
Like why does it valued as "demo" or "showcase" when it's a legitimate different gameplay experience above simply having a different FPS.
"legitimate different gameplay experience" does it surely make it sounds notable. But the facts speak differently here:
Link to video
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I can't follow the subtitles without having to pause the play every second, which defeats the purpose of having subtitles instead of reading the submission text. In order to improve the subtitles, you should either make each line last for longer, or make each sentence shorter.
For example, see my RPG TAS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggjtwzEwm80 As you can see, it's possible to read everything without pausing, despite being quite talkative; I've been especially meticulous about it. I've heard about a program (can't remember which one) that calculates the optimal ratio of length/duration for subtitles. Since I've wanted to keep my subtitles also inside the .fm2 file, I had the hard limit of each subtitle duration of 3 seconds, for which the optimal max length should be 40 characters.
Oh btw cool TAS, I didn't understand anything but I liked how it looked! 😀 Yep vote.
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Imagine me watching this in the street on my smartphone, then slowly raising my gaze with a flabbergasted expression, and the people around getting concerned about me.
Great job managing to do something innovative despite everything that has already been made in the past. Yes vote.
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Patashu wrote:
This is pretty funny for an April Fools joke, lmao.
😀
Patashu wrote:
The police cars just hurtling overhead as their sirens blare is some amazing physical comedy.
To me it looks pretty eerie to see those shadows roaming around under your feets.
Patashu wrote:
Also, what was up with the physics glitch at 30:40?
Happens because of the weird terrain geometry on which the car is going through.
Patashu wrote:
How did all of that happen without making any input?
Because the boat keeps oscillating with the sea waves, so the car slowly moves back to the land.
Patashu wrote:
Was it part of the route or just an amusing coincidence? LOL
No! I originally wanted for the car to automatically commit suicide after ending inputs! But it doesn't matter what I do, the boat will always recover it to the safe land... But then I figured that it would have made the submission more controversial, which is actually better 😈
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benstephens1000 wrote:
My point here was that a TAS that similar to this submission wouldn't be considered for publication most likely. I was mostly saying that if this submission isn't categorized as branchless, I don't know if anything else would ever really be able to fill a branchless role. That's totally fine if people don't care much about games that do not have a branchless submission.
Well, a movie that forgoes using major skips could probably be considered branchless. Are there any other known glitches that allow to skip more than half of the game, beside RIWW?
benstephens1000 wrote:
End of the day, judges and staff should organize this in whatever way works best for the site, I just wanted to insert my opinion.
Your opinion is very much appreciated. If you have any other thought, feel free to post.
