here's something for you!
don't forget your straw!
great run. I was surprised what's possible with such limited movement options of the slow main character.
(and I made it to 1-2 without savestates! I'm proud! ;))
has been accepted already, but I'll add another yes.
Couldn't find the answer in this thread, so..
Saturn, how did you get the idea for a suitless rbo run? And most of all, why are you so sure it's possible? Has it been done before?
adding another 'meh' as I'm one of those guys that's not enough into the game to enjoy the movie.
Tending towards no because it's just a video of an arbitrary part of the game, not a game completion. Should fit right into the 'Hacked games / concept demos' section though, so I'll keep it a 'meh'.
edit:
but now I have other projects to complete (Secret of Evermore).
What happened to your SM RBO-Run? Care to post a small update to the metroid thread?
edit: whoops, reading post dates can be helpful at times. I'd still like to see an update ;)
it is quite a repetitive game, that's for sure. Please switch off brain before watching.
I disagree on some of the speed vs. entertainment choices. Not picking up weapons is against my most basic gamer reflexes. I also like seeing big guns in action, even if they'd have been somewhat slower.
On the other hand, I really couldn't care less for their scores. I watched the movie to see some destruction, not to put on my red t-shirt, buy a red foam finger and start rooting for player 2. ;)
But I know better than to argue about personal preferences. When you're playing for entertainment and not for pure speed, you'll always get mixed opinions from the audience. And according to your goals, the movie is well crafted. Although I'm not likely to watch it again, I suppose it deserves a place amongst the published movies.
still unsure whether to vote 'yes' or 'meh' or not to vote at all. I'll sleep on it.
Random battles can be avoided, you just have to abuse the RNG.
oh, go ahead and try. There is no random check if you'll have an encounter each frame. The game generates a random number once, that number will be the maximum walking distance until your next random encounter. Sure, you might manipulate the value into something high that'll let you reach the next town before the random battle, but that won't always work.
There's also something you should know about the RNG: it's not random. It's more like a fixed table of random values (or fixed algorithm), and the RNG polls the next value whenever it needs one. Waiting a frame or pressing buttons is useless. The only way to manipulate a random number it is by making the game using either more or less randomness before, for example by delaying the fight - using weaker attacks so it lasts a few attacks longer.
Manipulating randomness while fighting? Changing orders is your only hope. A tedious process when playing (I didn't level much and had trouble with some bosses), even more tedious when optimizing.
then again, if you skip most of the battles, all that's left is a video of lots of characters talking way too much.
Hell, it got more use in this dungeon than the first (excluding leaf riding), and was handy since it saved at least 90 frames.
when rewatching I noticed you didn't use it in the second room. Bad angle for shooting, right?
Atma wrote:
I just checked and once you enter castor wilds you can just turn around and walk right back out, skipping pointless unrequired text :)
why exactly did I tell you that just entering is enough? Well, to save you the work of checking yourself. That almost worked out :p
Atma wrote:
I didn't actually cut it on the test run because all other places where you shrink, the environment around you changes back to an unaltered state (read: grass grows back), so the grass staying gone was unexpected.
It does work here, both on (U) and (E) versions. Looks like they specifically allowed this shortcut. probably added a flag to all "shrink portals" whether they reset the environment or not, might be worth keeping an eye open for such shortcuts. No, I don't remember any except for the one mentioned.
hehe.. you like giving small riddles to check if your viewers still pay attention, hm? ;) first the mention of the "blatant mistake" in your first WIP, now the "unexpected thing".. I didn't name it, so you gave me a hint, how nice of you :) how many hints do I get before you reveal the secret of your bomb-cannon? :p
so, what's next?
get your new sword
go down mt. crenel - is this route faster than the one used in your testrun? I did both in 25% without rerecords and was a few frames faster (though both of my attempts were slower than the optimized part in your testrun)
don't forget to open the town's wind crest someday, either on your way from mt. crenel to the sacred realm, or on your way back there to Castor Wilds.
just slightly entering Castor Wilds is enough to trigger the pegasus boots quest. (and not entering Castor Wilds is not)
open up the path below Lon Lon Ranch this time
Castor Wilds etc.. your testrun-route looked good to me. (except for not cutting that piece of grass down early, but that was mentioned already)
looks perfect to me. those fights were excellent!
I wonder if it's possible to hit the switch without getting the first key.. nothing I tried worked, that stupid switch is completely unimpressed by anything except direct sword hits. Neither tiger scrolls nor items (boomerang) would help. And I couldn't imagine how to pass through the closed door either.
Oh well, I guess you had your share of fun with that switch too.
warning, long blabbering ahead.
the going-out-of-your-way-for-40-rupees still looks taunting to me (although it's mighty cool to use a bomb as a projectile).
I've seen blue rupees (=5) drop from some enemys and even appear under stones. If luck is manipulatable enough to be on your side, you might be able to get your money without sidetracking too much.
Some numbers.
~500 frames to get the red rupee (=20) at the beginning of mount crenel base. -> 25 fpr (frames per rupee ;))
~160-200 frames to kill a monster with 2 hits and grab the drops. More if the monster is slightly out of the way, even more if luck manipulation is bitchy. -> 32-40 fpr
~90 frames to lift a stone, throw it and grab the drops. Add the needed sidetracking to reach the stone and luck manipulation. -> 18 fpr
~100 frames for the first "look! tis be blue rupee!"-message
depending on the victim, a couple of frames to equip your sword.
on the other hand: 1560 frames for visiting the cave, 39 fpr. But, 3 bombs gained and the "look, a bomb!"-message done.
let's say, 8 stones á 100 frames for 5 rupees each, a monster kill for 5 bombs (haven't seen them under stones today, but might be wrong), that's 100 for the drops and 2*100 for the messages, making 1200 frames, being 6 seconds faster.
Substract the frames needed for manipulation and reaching the stones you need. If you can get 8 rupees in a row on the stones in Trilby Highlands that'd be perfect, but from my short test it seems impossible. How does that PRNG work anyway?
ok, so that's *possibly* up to 6 seconds saved for a lot of work in pitting endurance against luck, and redoing or copy/paste/fixing most of the remaining segment. Nothing I'd do myself (not crazy enough and everything), so I don't expect you to even try.
But maybe one day we'll have a bisqbot to do the rupee hunting, so I wanted to write this down.
ok, with that out of the way, some comments on your new segment.
No obvious errors so far (obvious to me, that is). I've been fooling around with this & that for a while, no improvements found. Either your run is good, or I'm not. :)
Equipping your shield at the last moment against the deku scrub, nice one.
Grabbing the elastic mushroom from below made me laugh. ingenious!
I guess that's it for today. I should play ahead and fool around with things to be more useful than saying "yeah, looks good". Can't promise anything though, semester ends and there are some written tests ahead. :/
I like it :)
Still I'm wondering.. on your way to the castle (and on other occasions) you pressed left or right to slightly alter your rolling direction. Why didn't you use it here?
going right + slightly up wouldn't hurt, right?
overall a good job avoiding seeds, I'm just curious about this room
the obvious route is to go up first (over the seed-free-zone), then left. What did I miss?
thanks for finding a way to use the faster pot while avoiding the green rupee. That part always bothered me, as it just looked slow to someone who doesn't know about the rupee :)
timing sword slashes to the enemy's recovery time looks good. I'd still slip in one of those auto-fire-attacks somewhere in the run, just for variety. Maybe even between boss-phases to avoid just standing around.
did you already decide how many heart containers to get, and which?
fun for the whole family!
I pack my bags and put in.. a p-switch.
I pack my bags and put in.. a p-switch and green koopa shell.
I pack my bags and put in.. a p-switch, a green koopa shell and a trampoline.
I pack my bags and put in.. a p-switch, a green koopa shell, a trampoline and a key.
(I'm sure this children's game is played outside of germany too. Does anyone know the correct english phrases?)
new auto-scroller-crazyness, and faster everything else. deserve a yes-vote.
hmm.. this may have been asked before, I didn't read the whole thread, but watched the VIP.
you're doing 100 coins + "into the igloo", then "shell shreddin for red coins".
the shell seems somewhat out of the way. wouldn't it be faster to go into the igloo, get some coins there, then get the shell, 8 red coins, rest of the 100 (the red-coin's star appears somewhere around where you should pick up coin #100), and then do "into the igloo" seperately?
Another thing which just occurred to me is that the "least downloaded movies" gets actually filled mostly by the newest movies. Perhaps there could be a category like "least downloaded movies older than 1 month" or something to truely show the least popular ones (assuming it's possible to get publishing dates; I'll have to consult Bisqwit about that too).
"Most downloads per day" or "Least downloads per day" might be interesting as well.
Warp wrote:
The problem with that is that calculating the contents of the page is a more or less heavy process and that's why it's done only each 10 minutes (what you see is just a cached version of the page).
well, you can cache the top 100 or something, and just display the first x elements of the cache, depending on what the viewer wants.
With currently 468 movies and 970 submissions, you might even cache all of them.
that's interesting.
Now I've got two "Super Metroid [!] (JU)" here, both with the same CRC of D63ED5F8. One patches to a good legacy rom, one doesn't.
it seems like you have to.. ehm.. dump a different version of your cartridge for the patch to work.
Anyone else have trouble applying the Metroid Legacy patch? I'm using the regular JU rom, and the IPS applies successfully....but I get a bad checksum and the game goes blank as soon as it gets into the game itself.
This is happening to me too. Same thing with Limit. After the intro the screen just stays black and there is no sound at all.
same problem here.
applied ips to Super Metroid (JU) [!].smc, crc: d63ed5f8, didn't work.
applied ips to SuperMetroid.smc, crc: 806d0d0b (a bad dump.. don't ask me where I got it), and the game started. Still, snes9x tells me [bad checksum] and crc-mismatch when I try to play the timeattack, but the movie plays back fine.
I could make an ips of my bad-but-working rom against the (JU) [!], but that's not really helpful I guess.
indeed, the site is more responsive now.
No wonder with that machine, that's better than my workstation... /me hides in shame ;)
thanks to bisqwit for investing time and money in this upgrade!
Faster splitting I'm sure, as its used in several locations, and would save boss time, at least in a regular run.
you'd still have to split around 90 times to make it worth it. I don't think TSA used it that often.
Just checked now, and it looks like i'll be skipping the pot breaker too
you can also get rid of pots without the sword. namely Gust Jar, Cane, jumping from a ledge onto the pot, or just picking it up. You'll see what's faster, for single pots mostly picking up, or the cane if equipped. For multiple pots the Jar might be an option.
on another note, I just compared travel speed of rolling vs. rolling+roll attack. Just rolling is slightly faster. With your darknut strategies, there's no reason to get the roll attack either.
- when cloning link, make sure the "real" link is standing on the correct pad. After the clones disappear, the remaining Link should stand in the spot closest to your next destination.
Got that covered, mostly.
well, not in the royal crypt it seems. Wouldn't it be faster to stand on the northern fields? (for both keys).
one more question: how far do you have to walk into the swamp to trigger the pegasus boots quest? IIRC it appeared without me drowning first.
btw, was TSA talking about the faster splitting technique or the faster charging technique? I know I didn't get the technique you got, but I know I received something that made me charge faster.
my savegame (europe version, I hope that doesn't matter)
standing still, hitting B at frame 0
frame 79: the green clone-bar appears
frame 221 (+142): the green clone-bar is full and flashes white
your savegame after getting the faster splitting:
standing still, hitting B at frame 0
frame 118: the green clone-bar appears
frame 190 (+72): the green clone-bar is full and flashes white
(I might be off a few frames, because I counted at 6% speed, but you get the point)
It took you slightly more than 6000 frames for getting the technique (didn't count the time for getting the kinstone piece).
Fun with numbers:
- in the wind palace, you split 5 times. One of them didn't save time as you were waiting for the moving platform. Let's count 5 anyway.
- in the boss battle, you split 4 times. The first one didn't save time, as you had to wait for the eyes to pop up. Let's count 4 anyway.
- in the dark castle, you split 7 times. Although instead of splitting to hit those yellow switches, you might be able to use bomb+spin attack (no idea if they're close enough there). Let's count 7 anyway.
- 4 times against Vaati's second form.
- 4 times against his final form, although I doubt they save time there. I'll count them anyway.
Whereever you can charge early, you save less than the difference of 70 frames, but I'll count you 70 frames for each of the 24 splits.
That is less than 1680 frames saved for >6000 frames wasted.
Unless it's possible to get that technique way earlier, it doesn't save time. Neither does the 'faster spin-attack'-one.
I like how you squeeze your clones through tight spaces where they're not supposed to fit. :)
Nice shortcut in the wind palace. That was unexpected.
oh, and for the final version: don't forget to entertain the viewer during pauses, and please try to make your movement look smoother.
example? you enter a moving platform. you wait. you adjust yourself a couple of pixels towards the edge. you wait. you adjust yourself another few pixels...
use one motion and it'll look better. Start walking towards the edge at the last possible frame without losing speed, and it'll look perfect (and will increase your rerecord count a lot ;))
I'd be happy to review your progress if you post WIPs of your final version.
first of all: I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, you know most of this already, and on some parts I might be downright wrong. I'm just writing it all down just in case you missed some of it.
- As said, the biggest problems in your test-run are optimisations on a per-room-basis: there are some obvious errors in your current test-run, and it'd take too long (read: I'm too lazy) to point them all out. You'll have to spend more time examining ways, fighting tactics (including enemy manipulation?) etc on your final run. Comparing each room to TSAs run might help on puzzles as well.
One example: you didn't seem to notice that the seed-covered floors in the first temple slowed you down. There were no visible efforts to avoid them.
small check-list for going through each room:
- early bomb throwing, early sword charging
- when cloning link, make sure the "real" link is standing on the correct pad. After the clones disappear, the remaining Link should stand in the spot closest to your next destination.
- dash boots. You didn't use them as often as I expected. Then again, I might overestimate their speed.
- rolling vs. walking. Sometimes you rolled too far instead of walking the shorter distance. make sure to compare the routes every time.
general route changes. It's up to you to check if they're faster, at least they seem faster to me.
- first temple, your ride on the lower level: after getting the key, you're going back up to drop from the barrel again. Isn't it faster to just ride back on the leaf?
- maybe skip the bomb upgrade, as mentioned.
- open the wind crest in town earlier, saves you one walk from lake to town
- after visiting the witch for the first time, on your way back to town: open the path south of Lon Lon Ranch, so you can get there faster when going for the third book
- after fusing the first two elements: does the game require you to do the first tutorial-chargeup, or can you go right to the exit?
I only watched until the beginning of the ice dungeon (forgot it's name) when VGB crashed. Will watch more later.
don't forget your straw!
great run. I was surprised what's possible with such limited movement options of the slow main character.
(and I made it to 1-2 without savestates! I'm proud! ;))
has been accepted already, but I'll add another yes.
going right + slightly up wouldn't hurt, right?
overall a good job avoiding seeds, I'm just curious about this room
the obvious route is to go up first (over the seed-free-zone), then left. What did I miss?
thanks for finding a way to use the faster pot while avoiding the green rupee. That part always bothered me, as it just looked slow to someone who doesn't know about the rupee :)
