As already pointed out, Co-op TASing is impossible since there is no way to sync the GBAs with Dolphin, or have any TAS tools at all lol.
However, since the GBAs' footage are of lesser significance in this game (as opposed to Four Swords Adventures) there might be another way.
This video shows a pseudo emulated GBA within Dolphin made by dragonbane that simply catches the data sent to the GBA and sends responses.
Link to video
As you can see, the Tingle Tuner perfectly "connects" and it is possible to make use of Tingle's functions.
The downside is that there exists no visible GBA screen so it would make things quite complicated to figure out
(like doing equips, item management, bonuses, etc).
It's probably doable as you could go into single player and check the inventory of each character to allocate necessary items, or could try to blindly navigate and drop them etc.
Bonuses could be figured out by beating the stage since they are displayed at the end.
Or, you search for adresses for major things like bonuses or key items.
I admit it's an extreme hassle and might be close to insanity, but yeah.
TASing requires some insanity :P
Either way, the current version is not capable of acting as a complete GBA, but it could be possible in the future (more likely than for a true GBA emulation within Dolphin).
If everything will sync and be stable is another question, too, but I just wanted to let you know.
(Of course, TASvideos would never accept a fake GBA, but from what I could tell, you aren't super serious on that matter anyway)
Aside from that, is there a specific reason for no audio and 25 FPS?
(Makes me wonder, how do you even dump 25FPS? lol)
Something silly I stumbled upon some time ago (might be known too, who knows):
When you leave an area by walking through the Miasma path (w/e it's called in English, I have no idea lol) and get back onto the overworld, the camera moves to the next area.
There's one frame (probably) before the camera moves on which you can call the menu and navigate through it.
This probably also works with ship travels, which are longer and might give more space for possibilities.
Though, it's most likely useless, but just throwing this in here.
Considering the general pace of FFCC, this is some good stuff so far!
Done with World 1!
Link to video
1-3 has gotten a drastic route change, both RTA and TAS.
The TAS route in particular is quite stunning. Let me explain everything in detail:
The first screen starts off with an infamous Owl Skip (FSA has many of them, in fact, you can skip every single one except for the dialogue in 1-1, which doesn't count :P)
Only an active Link can activate the trigger, so I place Green next to the wall and consecutively use and cancel the C-right formation each roll period to make the other Links move upwards.
This works for RTA too, but requires some practice.
0:04
This screen has a neat route that is TAS only.
Instead of making my way to the left block which hides a staircase, followed up by 2 GBA screens and 2 switches to get up the castle wall, I choose the right path.
To get up, the by now usual FMC concept applies.
I position Green below the trees, then perform a Jump Slash with Purple, switch to Green and reunite, starting an FMC to clip Purple into the block.
This works because these 2x2 blocks are actors. The 1x1 blocks on the wall aren't, for example.
Then, once Purple is far enough into the block, he gets pulled into tiles using C-right formation's acceleration.
From there I stop his momentum using X and reuniting the very next frame, while Green starts a roll.
This leads to Green being inside solid tiles and rolling, which allows FMC through the tiles with controlled movement, identical to the beginning of 1-2.
I make my way up, then jump out of the wall thanks to the weird window tile mechanics.
Now up the wall, the switch can be hit which opens the gate.
Additionally, this triggers a couple special freeze frames which are intended by the game. During this small time window, Links are not supposed to move.
However, a C-formation's acceleration is able to make them move. In this state, they can traverse solid tiles, so I put Red just into the right spot to have him behind the gate, which skips waiting for it to open completely.
Plus, it looks really cool.
0:16
This fight took me way too long, probably around six hours. The result is great though, because I get a ton of red gems in addition to the 150.
As always, Gem RNG is extremely delicate, but this is superb.
Also waiting for a combo 20 to drop before I continue.
0:24
Pulling this lever will cause freeze frames again, allowing the Links to clip into the wall using the C-right formation.
However, they would instantly clip out again, but I clip them into a hidden ledge, which comes with special properties and makes them oscillate.
Using rolls and FMC allows clipping up the wall. This skips not only two GBA screens on this screen, but also the entire screen located to the right which contains a small key.
This also skips bombs, which makes the upcoming soldier fight a bit more challenging, but TAS got this.
0:31
This screen is somewhat annoying. Instead of fighting the big soldier mass in separated slots, I lure them all out and then release devastating C-left spin attacks.
Once the combo counter reaches 50, I reset it by getting hit. This is important for the gem route, since there are no more gem rewards for 60 and onwards.
(Note: For JP anyway. NTSC and PAL have different rewards. Notable is PAL, with dropping 100s for 70 and 80, and 1000 (!) for 90 and onwards).
0:53
The Barrier Screen
This is the quickest method to get past this screen, since it also skips the four switches which are meant to clear the path and let you continue.
FMC clipping applies again, since the barrier is an actor. Same concept as 1-2 and at the beginning of 1-3. I am sure you are tired of reading it over and over by now.
Pressing buttons, going fast.
0:59
Obliterating these soldiers to open the door and to get the gem combo counter exactly back to 50!
I need to wait a little bit for the last combo gem to spawn.
Inside the GBA screen I store the jump of the non-green Links, allowing me to release it on the TV screen, which makes them jump into the upper left corner.
1:21
The Phantom Ganon fight.
Or not.
As coincidence has it, the barrier screen is actually to the left of this one, which allows this skip.
1:22
The barrier screen.
I use FMC rolls to get out of the wall, then reunite to pull the others out as well and finish 1-3.
Improvement: about 2:13
One Hyphen Two
Link to video
When I started with 1-1, I was expecting to have an easy 1-2, just implementing the RTA small key skip that was found this year, and be done with it.
However, things turned out quite differently.
TAS takes an insane route, starting off with a crazy clip leading to an unexpected screen transition, skipping 2.5 rooms, the necessary lamp and 430 gems (as chance has it, there's a lamp a few rooms later...).
Then, TAS also skips another chest, which makes this a total of 630 gems skipped over the old TAS at this point.
Now, where will the gems come from you might wonder.
The answer is simple. There's a screen where I trigger two gem fountains, and by manipulating them, you can make them spawn 1000 gems optimally.
I aim for a bit less than that since I need to incorporate movement to not spend an entire day in that room.
For comparison, old TAS enters with 657 gems, while the new TAS enters with 5.
Then, there's also more FMC to clip through blocks and the maze skip after the keese room.
Pause
There's not much to do with Shadow Link, and the dialogue does not slow anything down at all.
Overall improvement over old TAS: Roughly 49 seconds.
Merry Christmas!
1-1 has been redone.
Link to video
I figured it might be nice to have some explanations for those who care.
The major challenge in 1-1 is manipulating gem RNG, having a significant gem rain at the end (~980 gems required) and another rain earlier that is triggered by the switch.
Since TAS skips the firerod now, it also ignores the first Shadow Link, losing 100 gems over the old TAS.
Thus, a new gem source is necessary, which is realized in a gem spring from a grass tile which can be accessed with the boomerang and is allocated on the same screen as the switch.
I spent 10 hours on that screen until I found a satisfying result that was fast and gave a sufficient amount of gems.
The general problem with manipulating gem drops is that there are many factors that affect it, including the Links' positions and which Link is active.
This creates a huge problem, since trying to position the Links to catch gems makes the RNG change and leads to extremely different results (talking about a possible variance of hundreds of gems!).
Now, the new approach comes with general smoothness, if I may say so. Obviously I am a lot more experienced now than I was when I first started the TAS, which is reflected in this result.
The RTA timing is about a 1:28, which is roughly 31 seconds faster.
This huge improvement was possible thanks to new techniques, and as already mentioned, skipping the firerod.
Notable details in order:
0:06
Improved Link management, Red is cutting through the bushes while Green is moving.
0:12
Block Skip.
By reuniting while calling and canceling the formation menu, it is possible to clip in and through actors, and under special conditions, also in and through tiles.
This technique is called FMC (Formation Menu Clipping).
Here, the big block is actually an actor, so Purple can clip in. I use a jumpslash for initial momentum, then reunite and mash X to constantly interrupt the reunite process.
This slows Purple down, allowing him to start a roll before respawning next to Green, giving additional momentum to reach a particular spot where he can clip out by pressing X on a specific frame.
0:33
Firerod Skip
I use a stunned octo (an actor in a state that allows clipping if a Link is inside) and drag Purple into it by doing FMCs.
Then, he can be dragged into actual tiles. I use timed rolls that preserve Green's momentum during the frame between FMCs to move him to the other side.
60FPS is recommended for the full experience of this glitch.
0:41
The horrible RNG screen. If the Links get hit by the shock wave while in the switch CS, they will still receive knock out and will be stunned.
However, there's a small frame window to either avoid it completely or throw the rocks, which gives invincibility if thrown on a specific frame.
Since Purple has no item, he gets stunned, but picking him up cancels his state.
While collecting gems with Blue and Purple using the C-left spin attack and utilizing the boomerang, I am also getting the second gem source, then clear the path and move on.
Yep, this took 10 hours.
0:50
Green collects 20s in the water, then respawns next to Purple to enter the bridge to perform Out of Bounds.
Basically, the non-Green Links' position is stored on the TV screen because I separate them on the first possible frame when regaining control on the GBA screen.
Then, I can select one of them and reunite, which puts them on top of the bridge.
0:57
More boomerang action. Really nice gem management.
1:02
The other horrible RNG screen.
Defeating the big guy will spawn a 100 or 150 gem, so I manipulate a blue Gem (150), then smash my head against the wall, cry in agony,
jump out of the window from 2nd floor, crash-land, get up, enter the house, walk up the stairs, get back on my PC,
gracefully collect the gems that magically dropped from the sky in a sufficient amount, then leave the screen and store a roll before the 2000 Gems Cutscene starts.
Overall, I have been working on this stage for about 17 hours.
I hope you enjoy.
Okay, actually managed to improve the Firerod skip.
You only need one Octorok for the clip, which makes RNG manipulation exponentially easier.
Also, skipping the GBA section by rolling over the 1 tile row, which is quite precise because of the drag back effect due to mechanics of this trick.
Link to video
Redoing the whole tas is big enough. I don't think people will have any issue if you pass on too hard RNG manipulation. Many runs have been submitted with a good but not stellar RNG manipulation.
I suppose, but good gem RNG is required for certain routes, so I may or may not be lenient on this matter.
Kurabupengin wrote:
What concerns me though is the possible desyncs in the final movie, meaning it can't be submitted... hopefully that's not the case here.
I am now using a special Dolphin build that has a (potential) desync warning, which should help with that.
Plus, I will be a lot more careful, since I don't want to start over again because of a desync.
jlun2 wrote:
How does this trick work? :o
Copied from the YT description:
You can use Enemy Clipping in combination with FMC and C-formation acceleration to drag Purple into the staircase area.
However, due to game mechanics any inactive Link will respawn if they are on the staircase.
Thus, it is necessary to clip all Links into the wall as Purple clips through. This is possible on one frame, and with a direction change, Green actually makes it into the loading zone to enter the GBA screen.
Since the boomerang is required, this merely saves time, as it only avoids opening the door and obtaining the firerod, plus 2 GBA transitions.
It's still something, if the octos can be put into position rather quickly.
Update:
The TAS will most likely be redone.
Currently I am still checking things in 1-1, which lead to the Firerod Skip.
Link to video
It's nothing huge, but skips the key and having to enter the house.
Requires octo manipulation though, which will be super painful, and in combination with manipulating gem RNG it is already super demotivating...
Also, my hands are troubling me, so progress may or may not happen at any time.
Yep, the desync is in 3-1.
That's why I said TAS is kinda screwed either way (though it might be possible to fix it per hand and a hexeditor).
I don't want to start over though.
Zmaster and I recently found a new technique that greatly benefits the TAS (and RTA runs to some extend). A short summary can be found here
http://pastebin.com/HAeGik2L
To sum up, TAS can save over 5 minutes.
Significant changes:
Deathless 1-3 Barrier Skip.
In addition with another clip at the top the entire screen can be done in roughly 12 seconds. For comparison, dying once takes about 12 seconds. TAS dies here to perform old barrier skip......
Link to video
Also, there's a Small Key Skip now, which works in RTA as well. However, this skips bombs, which TAS did anyway, but is a bit inconvenient for RTA runs.
Link to video
Additionally, deathless Phantom Ganon skip is possible now as well (TAS only):
Link to video
2-2 Shadow Link (and pretty much everything else) Skip:
This is huge. Do Bow Minigame and leave. TAS only.
Link to video
2-3 Deathless Lamp Skip
As you might recall, the normal method requires dying 3 times. As already mentioned, dying takes a lot of time. Do it thrice, even more.
This saves ~50 seconds.
Link to video
4-1 TAS Bow Skip (more like Shovel Skip)
Another major thing. You can use the horses the intended way and then just skip the shovel.
Link to video
I finished my studies by showcasing my internship to my teachers, by doing so I got 2 nice job opportunities in Berlin, and now you post this TAS. There are two meanings in these signs: today is a good day, and Germany is wonderful.
Nice, congratulations!
Enjoy your stay I guess?
Kurabupengin wrote:
This worries me quite a bit....
Yeah, I tried to fix things with two editors (Yaife and DTM Editor 1.6) but both seem to be unable to correctly read my (by now) 170k frames input file, so I cannot really do much. Maybe something will change again with more progress, these desyncs are kinda random, idk.
Finished 4-3 last night. About a minute faster than RTA, and this stage has no glitches used in runs. Shows again how insane micro management is in this game.
Link to video
In other news, the full run TAS desyncs in 3-1 as to different enemy behavior of one certain archer.
As of now I cannot fix it, but whatever I guess.
I just want to say Thank you to everyone who is replying here.
And here's 4-2:
Link to video
I felt like I might explain this stage a bit, since many things are happening.
0:01
Right at the beginning, there is an Owl CS. By drowning Purple, the Links are in a different state and cannot trigger the CS.
0:12
Good old OoB. Basically leaving the other Links on the TV screen as Green enters the GBA screen, and then switching to them, resulting in clipping onto the upper area.
Since you were never intended to transition here, you end in a wall (and can actually softlock).
0:21
Obtaining the feather. You can actually skip it, but it's super slow.
The jumps are very precise (1 frame), which result in no sounds when jumping.
0:37
This canon is silly. You can only reach it every 2nd frame because of its up and down motion.
Sadly, jumping into it from below is 2 frames slower, but I didn't care. This is cool.
0:45
These "double" jumps are a bit weird and I really don't want to explain them right now. Just enjoy.
A lot of smaller skips with this trick. We do something similar in RTA runs. The mechanics are different, but in the end, you get another jump off the swamp area.
1:29
This trick actually skips a huge part of the stage where you need to obtain a bow and two small keys to obtain a moon pearl.
The item in the house is a power bracelet to lift the trees.
1:39
Note the beauty of this. By rolling and reuniting a couple frames later, Green cannot use his sword yet, but the reuniting Links can, resulting in a C-left spin attack while Green is still moving, collecting all the 50s and the 100, which requires a link carrying something to avoid the short "Gem get" CS.
1:42
Destroying the pot to lure the lights away. Usually you need to wait a cycle.
There are 2 trees, the right one contains gems I pick up in a similar fashion.
1:46
The boss screen. I choose this pathing because the prior attempt where I went diagonally had bad Ghost phases, and moving diagoanlly while switching Links is not really possible, resulting in a somewhat linear movement.
This saved 29 frames over the prior attempt with pseudo linear movement.
The boss itself is easy, once it gets near a light, you can attack.
It takes an eternity before you can attack though, except for the last hit.
But I got a good solution for that one~
Also, you cannot exit the screen until the boss is off screen, so I am not wasting a single frame.
2:30
When you do the midair attack really close to the ground and jump the next frame, you can do this.
Looks really cool.
Mandatory.
In case anyone read this, I hope you enjoyed it.
It's been a while because real life kept me busy, but here is 3-3.
The gem route is quite tight, I forced 5 out of 6 big blue gems (they are worth 150 instead of 100 like the green ones) which required a lot of RNG manipulation.
The RNG mechanism in this game can be super annoying since the positions of Links affect RNG as well. So quite often by positioning a Link to obtain a gem you change RNG and get a 100 instead of the 150 you wanted...
Same thing with Dodongos. They are very sensitive to positioning and inputs which is why I sometimes just chill to avoid any pattern changes. It's a really delicate situation.
Link to video
I am not exactly sure what you mean.
You can either have all Links active (in formation (simultaneous control) or not, so that they just follow Green) or only single ones.
Switching always goes in this order: Green->Red->Blue->Purple->Green, and it takes 2 frames to switch to another Link.
If you are referring to 0:42 where all Links are active, but separate, well... This is a bit more complicated to explain. Bascially jumping stops the reunite acceleration, and with frame perfect jumps Red can just move without being dragged back at all.
And then I separate them shortly after (when they are rolling).
To obtain the L2 feather, you are normally required to detonate the bomb that covers the hole. But since this will happen just shortly before the 2nd one explodes (which clears the path) I clip in instead and use the free time for this superior cause.
The upgrade does not really help though. Even in casual play.
It just is really cool to jump twice (especially if you combine it with FLG [purple walking in the air at 1:33]).
And here's 3-2 with a new (RTA) route, obtaining the Roc's Feather.
TAS is taking it one step further and gets L2 as well, because why not.
Link to video
The archer screen (2nd screen) made me suffer more than anything in this stage and was the whole reason this wasn't done earlier.
I did everything past the bow skip (4th screen) yesterday/last night lol.
Link to video
Oh this is neat, because Dreamy Castle is so laggy lol
Does the music retrigger after a death? If not, it would be quite helpful to reduce lag.
(For RTA runs we agreed to not disable music, but if it's by a technique within the game and only for this stage, I would highly welcome it).
Also, not helpful, but disabling music in Sheila stages works as well by pausing (prob on a certain frame) when dying (I think somewhere around before the screen fades out, similar to this).
Now, I wonder if that works with Spyro deaths as well?
Yes, I used Zombie Clipping to skip the majority of this stage. Normally it is required to obtain the Bow and the Lamp to open the door in the upper middle, but this skips all of this. (Well, the bow is skipped for a long time by now, but skipping the lamp is new)
A brief explanation of what happens:
0:29 I enter the GBA screen and perform a special form of Out of Bounds, which makes the Links stay inside the wall next to the entrance.
0:38 Green dies, but the OoB Links cannot. This stores their death.
0:56 I reunite and shortly die after so that blue Link is still inside the wall to the left.
Then, the stored death kicks in and all non Green Links die again.
Now a dead Link is inside a wall. For whatever reason he does not respawn and can move inside the wall. While you see Green messing around and getting hurt, I actually move Blue behind the iron door.
But since Zombies cannot exit screens (or rather, you cannot exit screens if not all 4 Links are alive and not OoB) I need to die again.
After the respawn I immediately switch to Blue and leave the room.
After a while, 2-3 has been finished.
Took me longer than expected due to redoing several screens a couple times, and lack of motivation. Glad I am past this stage now.
Link to video
Oh, this sounds familiar. Having one extra loading screen.
Guess that was the reason I gave up on that.
I assume a Game Over warp would put you back into the prior overworld?
In any case, I mixed some things up and I am pretty sure your analysis is correct.
Eh, maybe I am mixing things up and you can only skip the fairy dialogue?
It's been a while and all I remeber is that I skipped the upgrade to destroy boulders.
I can look into it again but I dare to say that you are more qualified to judge with your TAS skills lol.