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IIRC the RNG for this game is set per frame, but the resolution of that RNG occurs much later on. Boss patterns are determined well before the patterns actually go into effect.
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adelikat wrote:
The same thinking needs to be here. Is this movie a clear entertainment improvement over the published movie?
I think we need to have a clear definition of what we are judging here. The input files that are submitted are essentially what the authors are offering, and I have almost always solely judged submissions based on what the authors decided to deem part of the run. Nécroyeur obviously had the intention of ending the input earlier and letting the boss time itself out, and I feel like that is the point at which we stop judging a submission (save that it still completes the game, which this one does).
Otherwise, the NES Monopoly run should theoretically be more entertaining if someone comes in and speeds through the rounds that would currently end the match, rather than letting the RNG run its course. There are plenty of other runs where input ends earlier in order to reduce input length, yet this has never been an issue until now?
Radiant wrote:
For a very long time, TASvideos has allowed Speed/Entertainment Tradeoffs.
Yeah, but these tradeoffs are to be decided by the author, not the Workbench. It isn't our place to tell them to trade time for entertainment if that was not their initial goal, and it has already been stated that the initial plan was to timeout the final boss and reduce the input length.
e: Just to poll the thread: If you know that the input ends early and lets the final boss timeout after a certain amount of time, do you still sit through the entire duration of the fight with a frown on your face or do you simply skip through the fight, knowing that the input has ended already? If you do the former, do you also sit through the credits for every single submission that you judge? Would you feel cheated if you found out that the author could skip the credits at the end of a game?
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feos wrote:
Let me remind the judge guidelines.
...
Doesn't look like we should publish a new run each time the ending is tweaked like that.
This is the correct opinion to have, and you should all aspire to be more like feos.
Aqfaq wrote:
Publish both.
Case closed.
In the future, allow "alternate ending" or "premature endingculation" or "God dropped the controller" or similar branch for games that have significantly different ways to end input. The slower input would go to the vault by default.
Please note that this means we need one more SMB1 category, since the input ends while Mario is still in the air and has not yet touched the axe. There was a huge debate about this way back in the day because Phil (at the time) shaved off some frames by doing this and it made a lot of people upset.
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Should have been some more cards going to Argentina, but oh well. Let's all congratulate Messi on all of the goals he scored against tough opponents like...?
Meanwhile:
http://youtu.be/GIo6pUkAcI8
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The only people rooting against Germany in the final are Argentinians (duh), Brazilians (out of spite), and Spaniards (who have failed to realize that there are teams other than Barca).
I hope Germany rolls all sorts of hard.
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Warepire wrote:
Would you not feel cheated from such a movie?
That's the feeling I got from the final boss battle in this TAS. I am not hiding that I thought it was an impressive achievement to do it this way, but for me, personally, it completely ruined the enjoyment of the TAS, hence the no vote.
It's all personal opinion.
Your example is a trope that has occured in many movies in the past, but the bigger issue boils down to what you expect from a movie versus what you would expect from a speedrun. If you absolutely have to see the protagonist kill the antagonist (which is apparently not even what really happens if you continue the fight in this game), then sure, you can feel cheated, but that's only because you had that expectation. If the target audience expects the fastest input file necessary, then the current submission meets those expectations, and a drawn out, uninteresting battle would be counter to the desires of the community. Otherwise, I think every SMB1 submission over the last 5 years needs to go back and ensure that Mario touches the axe and watches Bowser die off before input can be ended, since that is what is expected of Mario...
Honestly, it just seems silly that you seemed to enjoy so much of the movie, yet you let something as small as not seeing the boss die by the player's hand as a reason to vote no. Would you consider an entire ten course meal ruined when, after nine delicious dishes, you are given a desert that isn't exactly what you expected?
You're allowed to have an opinion, obviously, but you can't say it isn't arbitrary when the reason that you are voting a certain way is, by definition, arbitrary. At least the concept of "finish the game as quickly as possible" is objective.
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Warepire wrote:
My no vote was not arbitrary if you read my previous post.
It is arbitrary in the sense that you think there is an arbitrary definition of "properly" defeating the final boss. You've literally stated that the entire run is great, but you take enough umbrage with where he ended his input to vote No, rather than Meh (we have that option for cases exactly like this). The fact of the matter is that the submitter found a loophole to end input as soon as possible while still ensuring the completion of the game, which is what this entire site is predicated upon.
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andypanther wrote:
It's so sad to lose like this :(
You had your team get to the knockout round, much less qualify for the World Cup, which puts you ahead of 100+ other countries. Don't feel too bad about it.
That being said, Wondolowski messed up the easiest shot that would have put the US through, but alas, we are out. Thankfully, Germany is still in it, so at least I have that going for me.
At this rate, the final is going to be Columbia vs Netherlands with Die Oranje winning it all. Everyone else is playing boring toothless soccer.
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This is probably the funniest run I've seen since FODA's Altered Beast. Between the abject nihilism of Mr. Satan and the way that the character seems to crip walk through the levels, I was entertained the entire way through. The trick to end input sooner was also pretty cool: I don't know why people are complaining about that.
My only question pertains to the books that drop after the boss fights. If you are higher up on the screen, do the books take less time to reach you? Can you jump/use your superjump glitch and be frozen at the apex to cut down on this time?
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andypanther wrote:
I'm literally crying at this very moment. I can't believe it had to end like this :(
Yeah, I can't believe Greece was unable to beat two teams that went a man down against them, or that they weren't gifted a stoppage time penalty just because. It was cool to see them advance, especially because it's my father's team, but they have played pretty poorly since their EuroCup win and honestly didn't deserve to move ahead this time.
Kurabupengin wrote:
I have a clue of whos gonna win this cup thingy.
Thanks for your quality contribution to the internet!
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The refs totally gifted Nigeria that win. Letting a PK foul go uncalled and then calling offsides on an onside BIH goal is just ridiculous.
FIFA really needs to implement replay for three things: open field fouls resulting in injuries, checking to see whether goals being waived for offsides are really offsides, and whether defenders perform handballs. I don't care about "the spirit of the game:" the refs can swing very important games by mucking up tiny calls that take the announcers about 15 seconds to verify.
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Initial stage is "round robin," meaning that each group sees everyone play each other once. Best two teams advance to a single elimination bracket. 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw, 0 for a loss, tiebreaker by goal differential.
