Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
--My opinion on the 100% run--
Yes:
16 bombs upgrade
Master Key
Master Sword
Red Ring
Red Candle
Large Shield
Letter to show Old Woman
Finding All Heart Containers
No:
255 Rupies
Red Potion
Enemy Bait
Blue Ring
Weak Boomerang
Blue Candle (will probably be bought anyway, but replaced with red)
Intermediate Sword
Finding All "Secret to Everybody" places
Getting all maps and compasses in dungeons
.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Good WIP, scrimpeh.
The vertical whip-ring high jumps look really good so far. There may be more places to use them throughout the game, particularly in the clock tower level.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Great Movie.
It is especially fun to watch after comparing to it an unassisted 4-player playthrough seen here..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mMq8j6QNzc
I do have a question though... why are there pizzas sitting in the middle of the highway and in the Technodrome?!?!?!
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
After the Armor Knight fight (where you earn Erdrick's Armor), how much time difference is there between immediately dying and going from the castle to Garinham compared to just walking to Garinham from Hauksness?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Since it was requested, here is a list of the items that are changed for each glitch trip.
Format:
Trip number. (extra activity). #1 Start Item --> #1 End Item...... #2 Start Item --> #2 End Item
1. (Throw away Club). Wayfarer's Clothes --> Sacred Robe...... Cypress Stick --> Two Black Ravens
2. (Transfer Leather Helm to Wizard). Sacred Robe --> Armor of Radiance...... Black Raven --> Green Orb
3. (Transfer AOR to Hero). Cypress Stick --> Green Orb...... Green Orb --> Purple Orb
4. (Throw away Copper Sword). Green Orb --> Red Orb...... Purple Orb --> Red Orb
5. (Drop Cypress Stick). Red Orb --> Spider's Web...... Red Orb --> Rainbow Drop
6. (Formation H P1 W P2). Medical Herb --> Vitality Seed...... Wayfarer's Clothes --> Water Flying Cloth
7. (Formation H P2 W P1). Vitality Seed --> Royal Scroll...... Spider's Web --> Sphere of Light
7b in town (Transfer Rainbow Drop to P2)
8. (Form H W P1 P2). Royal Scroll --> Magic Key...... Clothes --> Dragon Killer
9. (Transfer Magic Key to self). Thief Key --> Staff of Change...... Dragon Killer --> Sword of Kings
9b in town (Transfer Sword of Kings to Hero)
10. (W Equip Leather Helmet). Staff of Change --> Sage's Stone...... E Leather Helmet --> E Turban
11. (Form W H P1 P2). E Turban --> E Gold Crown...... Sage's Stone --> Wizard's Ring
12. (Transfer Wizard's Ring to P1). E Gold Crown --> E Shield of Heroes...... Bronze Shield --> Shield of Heroes
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Kirkq wrote:
This RNG is supposedly very rigid, what is stopping you from calculating everything beginning to end on a future run before even starting? If every action increments it a set amount, you should be able to plan everything before even starting, and then simply execute it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I suppose I could define "planning" as two separate ideas. First, RNG planning, and second, just logistics planning.
First: For RNG planning:
Advanced RNG planning is done - but can only be done to an extent. Mostly in the dungeons and Alefgard (which is treated like a dungeon in terms of outside enemy manipulation).
Calculating "beginning to end" can really only be done on a per-dungeon basis. For example, Zoma's Castle: Once you get to the castle, your timing will not effect anything. Only actions (and in certain cases the number of steps taken) affect the RNG. Thus, for the final dungeon, you can do a whole advanced planned route - play through in real-time (while recording) and figure out the quickest steps to kill the Granite Titans and bosses. Then, play through in TAS-mode.
The advanced planning method would not work very well beyond that point due to overworld and town walking, which DO depend on timing.
Basically, the idea is this:
*Calculate the quickest way to kill off two party members: Do it - move to next part of movie
*Calculate best route through Tower and Cave - do it
*Calculate quickest bee fight - do it... etc, etc
In sum, I suppose I could say that advanced RNG planning was indeed done, but done in "pieces" of the movie rather than the entire movie itself.
Second: Logistics planning:
By logistics, I mean knowing when to purchase and sell items, what treasure to pick up, how much gold I will have, etc. For the most part, this is done well in advance before I even record a single frame. A big part of this project was pre-planning a quicker pre-glitch route that would save time by picking up less treasure and buying less items.
Overall:
Overall, I think there is still a lot to learn about the game, such as fight queues, and how using heal, running from fights, or doing various actions in the fights (and then winning or running) affect where you are at in the fight queue. Often, it is easy to find the quickest way through a fight with Crags or Babbles, but it is often harder to quickly get to the fight in the first place.[/i]
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Here is a .smv file of Super R Type being won on hard mode. This file does start from power on, and ends just before you can access PRO mode legitimately. If you play this movie and then win PRO mode, you will get the real credits.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/476334357/Super_R_type_HARD_win_legit.smv
EDIT:
About the movie. I play the first six levels normally, just killing enemies, not worrying about lag, time, or points. I just wanted to get through them. I die on purpose at the beginning of level 7 so I lose my missile and speed upgrades. These upgrades are not picked up again in level 7, since I don't want to start with them for PRO mode.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
A quick update:
Winning the game on HARD does NOT take you back to the title screen. After the short "Bydo empire dies, peace returns" text, the music stops, and the phrase "Begin next level" appears. Here, you can press start and go to PRO mode. I think PRO mode will begin eventually even if you don't press start. This screen is where the new TAS would start if it is allowed to begin from a save-state.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Solon's suggestion seems pretty good, I think. I may go ahead and try this.
However, what about the technicalities? Here is my understanding:
1. Create movie (unoptimized) of myself winning the game on HARD. Win the game without any upgrades. Maybe die in level 7 to make this easier so upgrades can be used in previous levels.
2. After the game is won, stop this TAS recording, and let the game cycle back again to the main menu.
3. When the game is at the main menu, start a new TAS.
========
I hope that's right. But what about timing issues? How do I know at exactly what point to begin the new recording? (That is, I don't want to "cheat" by starting the movie one frame before the START button can be pressed, and then claim I saved time when this time saver was never possible from the "record from reset" option)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Hi Everyone,
I am considering an improvement to the Super R-Type TAS. I'm pretty sure I can reduce lag in many places, and perhaps even shorten some boss fights.
However, I had a question. As you may know, I use a password to go straight to PRO mode. The game recognizes this, and therefore gives me the "bad" ending when I win.
Therefore, I was wondering if it would be possible to once again win the game in PRO mode, but somehow start from a save-state where HARD mode was won legitimately first. Then, you would get to see the "real" credits: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9G9_zA1hmA
Anyway, after winning the game in Hard mode, you can keep missile upgrades (I don't pick up missiles in the current TAS anyway), and you can keep speed upgrades. You cannot keep your force pod or bits. Thus, you could start PRO mode and play a bit faster in the first couple of levels, perhaps increasing the entertainment value at the beginning of the movie.
So thus, my questions are as follows: Is it allowed to start from a save-state (similar to the Chrono Trigger New Game + ?? ), and if so, what are the technical "rules" to do this? In addition to the rules, should the player be started with full speed, or should level 1 PRO be started with absolutely nothing?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
which the publication notes on the previous run notes is actually the easier setting for a TAS.
Yes, but since when has the difficulty in TASing the game played a role in whether or not it gets published? A game shouldn't get published just because it is harder to TAS, has more re-records, etc...
The general rule is to play at the hardest level (I had to restart my Super R-type TAS because I was playing HARD instead of PRO).
However, in a game so short and simple, it may just come down to which run is more entertaining. Since we are comparing to different versions (mode A and B) the one second shouldn't make a difference.
//actually, now that I say that, this run isn't super entertaining.
// meh vote.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
.
.
Co-Author Wanted!!
Hello everyone. Please watch the following video.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1536093789/DD-Dave.fm2
This video completes the first 2 missions 3 seconds faster than the current published run. However, due to grad school and job applications, I will be unable to finish this TAS. The main reason this video is faster is because I found a "glitch" that allows less enemies to be fought.
Also, check out another time saver in level 3 a few posts up. You can save almost 3 more seconds on the Chins.
However, you will be behind on points, and may have to punch more enemies to get your elbow attack skill for the final boss.
Please respond or PM me if you are interested in finishing this run. Thanks!!
.
.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Good job! I had messed around with this game some time ago, but I couldn't even tie the time on the first level, let alone improve it.
Yes vote and such.
// plus, I'll ask along with the others, how is the CV4 run going? (If you're still doing the project, that is...)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Quick playthrough of first 3 Galaga levels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-hTSulGKPA
It's only "funny" if you try to imagine what someone would look like if they were playing this in real time on a MAME.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
SpiderWaffle:
The second Youtube video you linked to is actually mine! (look at the author :) ... )
I believe I sent an .fcm of that video to Adelikat some time ago. It was one of those situations where you could have a shortened input file at the expense of a longer .avi file.
Little known fact: You can place the shuriken slightly higher on the platform, and Shredder will hit it without having to fall. When he gets hit for the final time, he will float sideways to the right and explode into the wall in midair!
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
To anyone who is thinking about trying to improve this game, please watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGiGWSisLyY
For the good part, just fast forward to 1:40 in the video.
Summary: Kill the technodrome, and have your turtle land on the treads. If the right conditions are met (I don't know what these conditions are), your turtle will take damage when he falls off the tread. If your turtle has low enough health, this damage will kill him.
The point is, the level will still be completed, and the death + "turtle death" soundbyte takes considerably less time than jumping in the technodrome + the "level complete" fanfare before you see April speak. This could be a potential timesaver.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Diman,
I'm not sure how your run is compared with the existing run when it comes to frames, but I was entertained the whole way through.
In the first castle room (the room BEFORE the swinging chandeliers and crazy music), see if you can try to use a damage boost from a flying axe to get on the first platform at the end of the room instead of climbing the stairs. I've came very close with testing, but it might be doable.
Also, I wish there a was a way to get through block 4-4 faster. The waiting for the elevating blocks is painful.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Wonderful job with the 600,000 population!
I noticed you didn't build any parks in your town. Don't parks reduce the pollution in the city? Maybe if you build some parks in the unused squares, you could reduce the number of annoying "pollution warning" screens that show up.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Would the "bee-numb" route be any faster than the dream ruby route? Let the killer bees paralyze you, then manipulate luck long enough to remove party members before the numbness wears off. Only issue then is getting a 07 byte in the zeropage to use the overworld to manipulate stats.
In the (U) version, I think the bee-numb is much faster, since the dream ruby cave is fairly sizable and enemies must be "healed" away. It also isn't difficult to manipulate a good fight around Kanave (1 masked moth and 1 killer bee is the best). For my purposes, I had to kill 2 characters right away, though I suppose you could get by with killing just one (and then giving him to Louisa).
Pirohiko's (J) version video is well thought out, since the fighter can level up much quicker with getting MP or spells (and of course gain tremendous hit power). The Ring of Life was also a great idea.
I would say that he could possibly start glitching sooner with killer bees - but otherwise, it's a great TAS. Unfortunately, his fighter method won't work for the (U) version.
I'm not sure about others' opinions, but due to such a difference in game mechanics, I would actually be in favor of publishing a (U) and a(J) TAS of this game. I am going to keep working on (U) and hopefully improve my published movie soon.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Pirohiko:
Wonderful job! I wish the (U) version of the game had similar mechanics to avoid battles and manipulate critical hits. Also, is that a falcon sword you're using to attack twice?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(251)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
Well, some of these RAM addresses are repeats from my previous post, but I have a couple of questions. The glitching of experience, return locations, and even items (at least when you're outside) seems to be related to the music playing. Music addresses, AFAIK, are [D6], [D8], and [DA].
So here is what I figured out. This is assuming all 4 characters in the party are deceased.
Town:
When [D6] [D8] [DA] = 22, 93, 0B, during the 'red flash' of swamp, player 3 will gain Rimuldar on his return locations, which is address [758] set equal to FE.
Outside:
When [D6] [D8] [DA] = 4, C3, E3, during the 'red flash' of swamp, player 3 will gain Rimuldar on his return locations, which is address [758] set equal to FE. This musical note occurs almost right away in the sound loop.
When [D6] [D8] [DA] = A4, 2D, 82, during the 'red flash' of swamp, player 2 will lose 1 point of experience at address [747], but player 1 will gain lot of experience, when address [746] is changed to FE. This musical note occurs toward the end of the sound loop.
==============
Given all of that, is there some sort of "mathematical" formula relating all of these RAM addresses and values together???
By the way, it takes approximately 11 minutes for a solo hero to level up from 1 to 99 (98 level ups). I have approximately 80 levelups in the current published movie. I think Adelikat's idea of a solo hero may be doable... only 19 or so more level ups, and much less item glitching, and a few less fights. However, the boss fights, especially Zoma, would be longer. The 98 levelups, which would come in one fight, would have to be maniuplated to give as much HP and MP as possible, as other stats aren't terribly important. Overall, I'm sure that this type of movie (which I know is able to be completed) will be faster.... but will people prefer it over the current glitch movie if they have to FF through 98 levelups at once?