Posts for diggidoyo


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Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
Joined: 1/27/2011
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Location: Oregon
Alright, here it is. 16 frame improvement from my original battle. Link to video
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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Ah ok. Still roughly what I thought you were doing. You've probably noticed this already, but using the Blade isn't exactly "free" damage. Although it can hit him while he's invincible, it renews his invincibility timer. It restarts once the most recent shot hits him. That's why I never use the second Blade shot on him. Let's me use the Rebound Striker for 4 damage again 3 frames sooner. In any event, the new strategy I use is still slightly faster. I'm dumping the replay now but it will take a while to get to that part (every time I check for desyncs or dump it has to start from the beginning). the dumped frames play at 60 FPS, but the program I'm using to combine the audio and video (Windows Live Movie Maker) degrades it to 30 FPS. What program do you use?
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Thanks RT-55J. As I progress, I'm learning more that makes the process quicker. The Wily Stages will be a different beast, though, since I have to plan weapon usage through all 5 levels. Alright, new information on Sheep Man. Good and Bad. First the bad: If I'm understanding your strategy correctly, kuja killer, you end the fight with a single point of damage from Blade, and this finishes the fight 4 frames earlier than my initial strategy. Well, unfortunately, those 4 frames are only beneficial during the Time Trial. Let me explain. I found out the ending sequence (where the finish music plays and Mega Man jumps to power-up) doesn't trigger until Mega Man is actually touching the ground. This is important for anyone else planning to run this game with another character (Mothrayas/AngerFist). But you also have to balance this with the fact that the sequence is longer the farther Mega Man is away from the center, because he still has to run to the center. Optimally, you want to end in the middle without jumping. But if you must jump, (you have a few frames after the last hit on the boss to make a jump before you're stuck to the ground) it needs to be as small as possible to make it to the center. Until now, this hasn't been an issue, but the fight with Sheep Man is a little more complicated because of the Rebound Striker adding damage when it hits a wall. This allows for a lot of different strategies. Kuja's strategy is 4 frames faster than my initial strategy, but it ends farther away from the center. With both strategies, I can still make a jump that lands exactly in the center, but Kuja's strategy requires a slightly larger jump that lands 8 frames after mine. This means the 4 frames saved during the fight, converts into 8 frames lost overall. And now for the good news, after more testing, I was able to follow the paths of the Rebound Strikers on a sub-pixel level, and found a way to fire to the left right away (as in Kuja's strategy), AND deal 5 damage with the third shot (as in my initial strat). This once again eliminates the need to finish the fight with Blade, and saves 5 frames on top of the 4 frames I already saved. And if that wasn't enough, with the new knowledge explained above in mind, I was able to bring Mega Man closer to the center before firing the last shot, saving another 7 frames. This brings the total improvements to 16 frames. Since they are all in the boss fight, I'm going to encode the new boss fight and upload it.
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ALAKTORN wrote:
0:51 shouldn't it be faster to jump from a higher place so you have more speed when falling to the red blocks? 1:29 the climbing wheel weapon thing isn't faster?
0:51 - Yes, but the problem is the yellow blocks are placed in such a way that you can't fall straight down to the red ones. A small hop after the blue blocks dissapear is the fastest way to get to red. 1:29 - Suprisingly, its not. RAM watching y-speed would easily prove this, but I just used trial and error. The Wheel cutter takes a few extra frames to grab the far wall and take over your vertical acceleration, and it takes an extra frame to let go of it before transitioning to the next screen at the top of a ladder. Mega Man has a lot of initial vertical acceleration at the beginning of his jumps and these facts combined make rush faster than wheel for some of the ladder transtions.
kuja killer wrote:
Although, the 3rd ball cant do 5 damage after that, only 4
I saw your 2:00.93 finish time, so I knew you'd have some insight of this level. Jumping off the top block after Octobulb requires very frame precise jumping/falling movements since there's really only about a 1 frame window where you can get up to that height and jump. But it only saves a single frame. Having the wheel cutter out earlier and cancelling rush coil probably saved several more. As for the Sheep Man fight, dealing 5 damage with the third shot was the main reason for shooting to the left 10 frames after the battle began. This eliminated the single pixel of health he had left over after the fifth Rebound Striker shot. But I did a little testing with shooting to left on the first frame as you did. It looses a frame for being too far away for the first Blade Shot to hit right away, and then 5 more for having to switch back to Blade for the last shot, but it ultimately finishes 4 frames ahead. Nice find
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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Speaking of Sheep Man :D Link to video
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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Probably my least favorite level, but here's Strike Man. Link to video
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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Hell yea it does. But there's not too much interest in these runs yet, it seems. For now, I'll continue working on my Mega Man Normal run. After it's complete, I'll do the first stage for both of the runs I suggested. I'll be able to make a better decision when I can actually watch the runs. I'll post both videos and we'll see which one gets more positive feedback.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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So I was toying around with some more ideas for my next TAS. Since this will be my first TAS, I'm still a little new to this site. But from what I've read, it seems the community has a phobia against too many categories for a single game. And for good reasons. For Mega Man 10, I feel at an absolute minimum, we have to allow: Mega Man, Normal Mode Goal: Speed Proto Man, Normal Mode Goal: Speed Mega Man is automatically in since he's the legend, Normal Mode is the hardest difficulty available from the start of the game and is the way the game was meant to be played, and Proto Man is the fastest character available from the start. Now it gets a little fuzzy if any more categories would be accepted. But I'm proposing the following two, with their goals in order of importance: Mega Man, Hard Mode Goals: No Damage, Buster Only, Pacifist, Speed This seems like a lot of stipulations, but I think this would make a great TAS. Mega Man 10 is unique in the fact that it is the first and only Mega Man that doesn't require any special weapon usage at all to beat.Not even the Wily Stages. This makes a Buster only run plausible. As for Pacifist, this means only killing bosses, mini-bosses, and necessary enemies to not break the Mr. Perfect rule (Blockers on Pump Man's stage, the laser flowers in Solar Man's stage, etc). Hard mode adds extra enemies, and not being able to kill any would make for a ninja-like run with all the evades and dodges. With the added obstacles and Boss AI, it's impossible for the finish time of Hard Mode to compete with Normal Mode. This makes all the above goals more important for entertainment. Bass, Hard Mode Goal: Speed Bass is the fastest character, hands down. His dash is faster than Proto Man's slide, and unlike Proto Man, his momentum continues through his jumps. This means, even under hard mode, this will have the fastest finish time, Also, while in his Rush form, not only can he fly in any direction, but also he suffers no pushback effect from taking damage. This will allow him to tank past some enemies that can't be passed without being killed. I'd like to do either one of these runs, and possibly even both if they both have a chance at being accepted. Thoughts?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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I don't think there's a way to know for sure until we can watch the RAM address. I know it takes over a full screen at the very least, because I fall slightly faster down the third screen then I do the second.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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Those aren't actually holes. I know it looks deceiving, but Mega Man can't fit in between any of those spaces except for the gap between the two rightmost 3 second time bombs. I used this gap in the other route I found, and while it's 5 frames faster than Rockmanda's route, it's 14 frames slower than the optimal route because of what Mothrayas already mentioned, vertical acceleration reset.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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Thanks for the support guys.
ALAKTORN wrote:
couldn't you have moved to the right sooner at 1:10?
There are actually 3 different ways I've found to get past those screens. One of the ways is the route Rockmanda used, which is to go through the time bomb on the first frame after it explodes. That route is actually the slowest of the 3. The fastest way down to the bottom screen is the route I took, and I move right at the first possible frame I can after passing by 5 second time bomb.
Kirkq wrote:
Just a random thought, consider changing weapons to the beat of the music at some point, perhaps?
I am a huge fan of rhythm shooting, and I do it at the beginning of my real time record of Nitro Man. The problem is, it's not possible with the current state of Dolphin. I have to lower some of the Dolphin's capabilities in order to emulate accurately and avoid desyncs. This means the music is choppy and less than 30 frames per second. When dumped it plays fine (as you can see in the YouTube video), but if I try to sync anything with the music it will either desync from the music or desync the video entirely. It's still a bit of a struggle to get the Dolphin to behave, and it's only going to get harder as the movie gets longer. But I do what I can for entertainment. Manipulating enemy drops is something I've been doing since the beginning, but it's awesome to see so many drops at once. Every enemy I kill, I try numerous times to try to find a favorable drop. I think large health refills look the best, and I try to avoid them after they drop when I can.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
Joined: 1/27/2011
Posts: 427
Location: Oregon
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
Joined: 1/27/2011
Posts: 427
Location: Oregon
prog·nos·ti·ca·tion /prägˌnästəˈkāSHən/ Noun 1. The action of foretelling or prophesying future events. 2. A prophecy. Thanks for the WotD
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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Location: Oregon
Yes, I recorded and encoded the movie with Idle Skipping disabled. I only showed it enabled because it speeds playback. I have it uploaded already to Youtube on my channel www.youtube.com/diggidoyo Also, sound slowly desyncs over time. I don't know why, but I think it plays at a slightly different speed for some reason. Not noticeable at first, but become obvious after a few minutes. I correct for this by advancing the sound by .20 seconds every level or so after it's all dumped.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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Dear Diggidoyo, If what you see is what you get, why can't we judge a book by its cover?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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Here is the input file for anyone who wants to see my current progress on the actual emulator. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UNXRZPS3 It includes the first 3 stages and ends at the beginning of Nitro Man's stage. It syncs with r7302 that I recorded it on, as well as the current revision r7435. Use the following settings Please note, the playback will be 20-30fps. While watching the recording, you can only pause, frame advance, and save state. Loading a state stops playback and continues recording from that point, even with read-only mode enabled. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Also, here is some RNG information that I posted on Speed Demos Archive. I'm reposting it here since it it's more useful to this community. "You mentioned that boss patterns are only influenced by total time elasped, down to the specific frame. That's only half right. Killing an enemy also manipulates boss patterns. I proved this during my TAS of Commando Man, making him do his optimal pattern without waiting. I don't know how many patterns he has, because even after trying 50 times waiting an extra frame, he never repeated his optimal pattern. It's probably around 60. The reason is because all patterns (boss, enemy, crushers, etc) and enemy drops are influenced by the random number generator (RNG). Killing an enemy calls for the RNG to caculate which (if any) power-up to drop. This calculation changes the RNG, and all subsequent drops and patterns in that level appear 1 frame sooner. The RNG is seperate and renewed for each level. Regardless, its 's too hard to manipulate the patterns successfully everytime on the console. Even a single frame could mean the difference between a favorable pattern and a bad one. Still, if you're consitently having trouble, try killing more or less enemies. Also, keep in mind that some patterns are actually dependent on Mega Man's position. Strike Man, Blade Man, and Tsurare Stomps to name a few." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Jumping and shooting doesn't change the RNG. Also, to clarify, it doesn't matter specifically which enemies you kill. The only thing that matters is the number of enemies. That's why destroying the first and second missile turrets yield the same starting boss. So for instance, assuming never stopping and arriving to the first Wily 1 boss door at the first possible frame: -Killing nothing yields Wood Man -Killing 1 enemy yields Elec Man -Killing 2 enemies yields Elec Man Even if you killed the 2 Tsurare Stomps, it would still yield Elec Man. If you could kill 3 enemies, it's possible it might yield Gemini Man. There might be a few more ways to change the RNG, but I haven't tested them enough to be sure. I've heard some small objects like the actual missiles and footballs effect the RNG. I haven't tested that yet, but I can confirm the the bombs from Arigocks and Bomb Puttons on Commando Man's stage do not effect the RNG. Also, the ice blocks in Chill Man stage seem to do weird things to the RNG. Instead of moving patterns/drops sooner by 1 frame, I've seen it move some forward by 10 or more frames. This might be because of the way the game displays the animation when a ice block is destroyed." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Q. Are you sure the weapon you kill the enemy with isn't relevant? In MM9 I'm pretty sure it was. A.What you might be mistaking for an RNG change is actually a variance in weapon speed. I tested this in Chill Man's time trial by damaging the first snowman enemy, and then delivering the kill shot with different weapons. NOTE: The missing milliseconds (2, 4, 7, & 9) are never shown on the timer. This is how game keeps accurate time even at 60 frames per second. Using Mega Buster: Shoot time - Enemy hit time - Drop 4.56 --------- 4.73 ------------- Nothing 4.58 --------- 4.75 ------------- Large Health Refill 4.60 --------- 4.75 ------------- Large Health Refill 4.61 --------- 4.76 ------------- Small Weapon Refill 4.63 --------- 4.78 ------------- Nothing 4.65 --------- 4.80 ------------- Nothing Using Triple Blade: Shoot time - Enemy hit time - Drop 4.56 --------- 4.71 ------------- Nothing 4.58 --------- 4.73 ------------- Nothing 4.60 --------- 4.73 ------------- Nothing 4.61 --------- 4.75 ------------- Large Health Refill 4.63 --------- 4.76 ------------- Small Weapon Refill 4.65 --------- 4.78 ------------- Nothing So as you can see, looking only at the weapon shoot time and the drop it yields, using a different weapon appears to have changed the RNG. But factoring in the time the shot actually reached the enemy, it's clear the RNG didn't actually change at all. Some weapons are just faster than others.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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Kuja is right. I tried this promising path extensively during the time trials. I was hopeful, but even with all the weapons at your disposal, the extra distance Mega Man has to travel completely negates any benefits from avoiding the time bombs. I was able to to coax another 1-up out of an enemy in Chill Man's stage, but I don't think there's too much left on this level.
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Unfortunately, yes. By a single flippin frame. Only. the Jet is faster, but I don't have him yet.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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Yeah, I tried that when I ran the time trial. The problem is there's no way to get onto the Rush Jet without stopping. Even the highest ground in that screen isn't high enough to not have to wait.
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Yup, it definitely worked. Saved 21 frames. Then I used the Rush Coil cancel trick to call him again up top and saved 6 more. Link to video
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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No, Rush teleports past all obstacles until he's within one block of your level. If he can't appear on that level (for instance, if its in the middle of a block, or in the air for coil), he will continue and appear as soon as he can. If there are no spots below you available, he will continue to the bottom of the screen and disappear. That screen is actually the slowest deviation from the record route (aside from the boss fight). The problem is the upper ice block. In the time trial, a Solar Blaze easily destroys it, and a wheel cutter takes you to the next level. But without those weapons, I have to use Triple Blade and Rush. The reason why I call Rush there, is because that's the first frame its possible for me to call him after shooting the ice block with T. Blade. I switch to Rush immediately after the ice is hit, and then hop again on the ice below me to put the coil on the floor. The reason for this is because there isn't enough room above the ice block for Mega Man to jump on him. BUT After studying the screen again, I *might* be able to call him on top of the lower ice block, jump out into the space where the upper ice block was, and coil my way to the next the screen. I'll test this out tonight. If it works, it will save several frames for not having coil have to go all the way down to the floor, and then several more for the coil being higher up. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. The other ice breaking rooms will be harder to find improvements for because of the enemy placements.
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ALAKTORN wrote:
can't help but think the strategy is improvable
Not so sure about this one, unless you see something specific. I manually timed it and it's only a second off of my world record time trial for this level. The slower areas are only the spots where having more weapons would be slightly faster. In fact, the first screen is actually 2 frames faster thanks to new tactic that jumps off the last ice block for extra height. @Kuja Killer Yes, before moonwalking, I made sure the subpixels lost never added up to a whole frame on each screen.
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Alright its up. Had to re-encode it for some reason. Alaktorn, could you unquote me to remove the dead link? Here's the right one: Link to video
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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I'd probably desync and end up jumping into and banging on a wall for the rest of my life. I think I'll pass.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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Chill Man is down. Give it some time to upload. Sitting at 80% for some reason. I've tried uploading it three times so far. It's only 30MB so I don't know what the problem is. Gets to 75% then slows considerably.
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