Posts for diggidoyo


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Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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How bad-ass would Mega Man 9 & 10 look when played in this manner? =D But I supposed they would have to be TAS'd by themselves first... And I also lol'd at the topic title.
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Yes, that's what I'm referring to. It looks better at 30 fps because you only see Mega Man facing backwards. But after more testing it turns out it does slow you down after all. It's not noticeable at first, but by the end of the first stretch, the subpixels lost added up to 2 whole frames. I wont be using it in my run after all :( And to answer your screw crusher comment: I can't use the DLC weapons in this run. It's not available from the start of the game. It requires DLC and then beating the respective bosses to even use.
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Haha, once again, I'm amused by your attention to detail. Nothing seems to get by you. I don't mean that in a. condenscending way. I love your ability to scrutinize my performance. I managed to squeeze another frame out of an earlier part of the stage. But it wasn't really useful, because it meant I had to wait for a single frame before the boss door. Walking during the sandstorm was a way for me to hide this 1 frame wait without... actually waiting. Walking itself is the same speed as jumping, but being lower on the sidestorm wall is a frame slower by the end. And yes, I tested the full speed moonwalking already and it looks sexy. I'll be doing it throught the whole level. And the level will nearly be as fast as the time trial with the Commando Bomb. The boss fight will be slower, but still much faster than buster only when I abuse the Triple Blade glitch.
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Yeah, definately a big thanks to you and others for picking up the ball and getting the Wii TASable. So, I know I said I'll post the next video when I finish Nitro Man, but the Chill Man run is going to look too good to not share. The properties of the ice are such that I don't lose any forward momentum until the second frame of reverse input. That means I can spin around on the ice and maintain constant full horizontal speed. When this is coupled with the 30fps of the AVI, it produces the effect of full speed moonwalking! I can also reverse every 3rd frame to still achieve the effect of spinning in the AVI.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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I disable sounds completely. The TASable settings slow down the Dolphin to 30fps or less, which makes the audio distracting and unpleasant at times. When you finished recording, choosing dump audio will still... dump audio. Even with no audio output selected. To avoid desyncs, I simply never trust the Dolphin. If you're having problems, try this: Save a main save-state to one you don't use very often (#8) at the beginning of a section (anywhere from a single screen to the whole level). Then run through the section using the other save states as often as you need, but write down (in notepad) what inputs need to be performed on whatever frames. It only needs to make sense to you, so it can be as ambiguous as you like. Here's an example excerpt from mine for Mega Man 10: 12 ^21 fall 22 30-35 >43-49 59 xa68-74 <00> <x28> x30 <x32> 98-x01-x07 x10 27-38 <x50 68 That wont make sense to anyone but me. Once you've completed the section and have everything written down, load your main save-state (#8), and run through the section following the input you wrote down and using minimum save-states (only every so often to redo mistakes). The Dolphin can rerecord through saved/loaded states, but it does a much better job when they aren't used at all or at least not in rapid succession. After you've completed the section, save the recording and play it back to see if it synced. Save states along the way, and if it desynced, load a state from a little before the desync and continue recording from there once again using the inputs your wrote down. Rinse and repeat. Lengthy process but it works for me. Hope that helps.[/img]
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Perhaps it's an isolated case and it has something to do with how the Wily Stage 1 boss orders are chosen? I tested this on Commando Man's stage by shooting a few extra bombs from Arigocks and Bomb Pottons and then killing an enemy at the precise frame I knew he would drop a large health refill. Whether I shot several bombs or none, he still dropped the large health refill at the same frame. I also shot an extra bomb before running to the boss door and and Commando Man still performed his optimal pattern on the same frame as usual.
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I don't know how Kuja came to the conclusion that small objects effect the RNG, but as far as I have tested, they do not. And why should they? The game has no reason to calculate anything when a small object is destroyed because they are not programed to ever drop anything. I kill a couple small objects in the run but that's purely for fun.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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Phew! Finally finished the rerun of part 1. Over 80 frames of improvements. And it also looks significantly more bad-ass for some reason. Especially the Tri-Castle fight. That's probably what I'm most proud of. The rush-coil cancel trick saved 24 frames and I love watching Mega Man absolutely obliterate Tri-Castle with the "pew pew" buster. Just uploaded to YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b29jhH98yto The next video update will come after I complete Chill Man and Nitro Man, but I'll keep posting my progress in this thread.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player (580)
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That would definitely work. Great idea for DLC. I used the DLC Ballade Cracker to finish off Wily 4 since he ended up directly above me and its the only weapon Mega Man can fire straight up. If he stays up long enough, you might be able to fire a Triple Blade back at him as well. Any idea on the total amount of frames saved with this tactic? 5 frames or so? I doubt its enough to make redoing the whole time trial over again worth it.
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benkodaniel wrote:
Pretty much doable.
LOL. Owned. Nice find benko. Never stop believing kuja. I've eaten my own words many times in just the short span of running the first two levels. In fact, I just saved another 6 frames by altering my Tri-castle fight yet again. I really want to finish this level and post the WIP, but I keep finding improvements.
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Fantastic run kuja! I especially loved your intuitive uses for rush. I also saw a few of your other times as well. 1:35.66 Commando and 2:00.93 Sheep would be interesting to watch as well. On a different note, I found something interesting that will prove useful for a run through with Bass on hard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2t6GrtAhaQ&feature=related While in his Treble calling form, without touching Treble, he loses his auto/multidirectional gun, but gains mobility and a damage upgrade. Basically he becomes a purple/black Mega Man that can dash. Also, I'm not so sure if Mr. Perfect is a good idea for him, because of the fact that he loses no momentum when taking damage while in his Treble form. Just some notes to keep in mind.
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Nice! Dump the frames/audio and upload it so we can have a look. =D Also, more good news. Thanks to Graveworm, I went back and made sure the enemies I left alive took more than 18 frames to kill. Turns out, I was wrong. I found a fast way to kill the first red Tsurare Stomp... and oddly enough, the strategy takes exactly 18 extra frames. Although this tactic only saves a single frame on the level, it completely eliminates the wait at the end of the level. Now it will also look optimized to those who don't know about the Mega Man 10 RNG!
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@Graveworm Yes, that's correct. In the new run I kill all the parachute enemies. Most of them I kill behind me which wastes a frame, but it's made up at the end. The only enemies I don't kill now are two mets that don't come out of their helmets, the two shield attackers, the first red Tsurare Stomp, and the burrowed Arigocks. @Kirkq Unfortunately not. At least not for Commando Man. The optimal pattern has a single frame window out of more than 50 frames. Even if you did know you needed to wait, it would be nearly impossible to hit the right frame on the console. Need to rely on luck. Now when I say optimal pattern, I mean exactly the right move-set for me to kill him in the fastest time. During the 50 frame window I tested he performed several patterns that were similar to the optimal pattern, but slightly different. For instance, he would: ->shoot ->small jump ->shoot ->small jump instead of the optimal: ->shoot ->small jump ->small jump This small discrepancy could be worked around on the console and still provide a fast time even without the optimal pattern. But it's still too random to be manipulated without frame advance.
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True. Can't rule out all possibilities. I've tried a few other ideas but so far only time and enemy killings have any effect on the RNG. Also, the RNG is separate and refreshed for each level. Killing an enemy in one level has no effect on the next. Same goes for the time in which you complete the earlier level. And one more thing, Strike Man's and Blade Man's optimal patterns are influenced by your movement during the fight. On my WIP, I just finished Tri-Castle, and using the Rush Coil cancel trick I found earlier saved 18 additional frames. Brings the total to 42 frames saved so far. After cutting out the small energy refill later in the level and a few ideas I'll try with beat, it should bring the total improvements to over a second off the already fantastic run! I'm hoping to get Blade Man finished and have the video uploaded tonight.
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I'd wager that it is. Optimized within the scope of Mega Man. Proto Man and Bass will probably have better luck because their windows of opportunity will be different. Even killing as few enemies as possible wasn't enough to bring his optimal pattern into my window. He did a few patterns multiple times, but the optimal pattern doesn't repeat for at least 50 frames.
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So after some testing, it turns out my theory was correct. Killing an enemy manipulates the RNG and makes the boss's patterns and all enemy drops appear one frame sooner. With this new insight, I ran through the level killing as few enemies as possible, pushing his optimal pattern back, hoping it would bring it into my window. Unfortunately, there are too many enemies that I am required to kill, because it would take more than a frame to evade them which would automatically cancel out the benefit. So, I went the other, much more entertaining route, and destroyed all who dared to cross my path. Doing this summoned his optimal pattern 24 frames sooner than before. Still requires a slight wait, but only for 20 frames as opposed to the original 44. Now that Commando Man has been optimized fully, I'm moving on to Blade Man again. I'll update the WIP once I finish the improvements to that level as well.
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Hmm. Not sure what you're doing wrong. Possibly jumping too soon so it doesn't register? I'm positive jumping gets you up to speed better than simply running. This is true anytime you accelerate from a full stop (level start, boss fights, tops of ladders, etc) because if you look closely, Mega Man actually leans into his run before he takes off. At the top of the ladder, there should be only frame where Mega Man stands at the top of the ladder. The very next frame, Mega Man should be slightly in the air and at full horizontal speed heading forward. As for my vertical acceleration comment, having more vertical momentum will help whenever the jump leads into a screen change, or you need to change directions on a lower platform. This is simply because you will get there sooner. Just jump as soon as possible to make a full jump and just barely clear the edge (One frame sooner and you would hit the ground, which stops vertical momentum=bad). Do this at 1:08 and you might save a frame or two unless the parachute enemy shoots at you in a way that prevents it. And the next two screens should benefit from this as well.
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-Jump at the tops of all ladders. There's a few frame delay for Mega Man to get up to full speed while running. He's always at full speed in the air, though. So jumping (even a 1 frame hop) eliminates this. -Make your edge jumps as high and as close to the edge as possible to take advantage of vertical acceleration. That's my input on the gameplay. For the Dolphin issues you're having, I'm having the exact same problems, but I have a few suggestions. I haven't tried MM9, but I've been playing MM10 on r7302 which works for me, and I can't see why it would be that different. * Semi-frequent crashes causing loss of input. Any insights? I started experiencing this when I tried r7328 and up. That's why I went back to the r7302 I was using. No crashes there. Maybe this will be fixed in the future. * Sometimes, Loading a savestate results in no longer recording input (and sometimes locks input to what was happening from the loaded frame) This annoys me the most. Think it has something to do with the emulated Wii-mote going into standby. This is a known issue with no current fix. Just have to do your best to avoid it by using multiple save states. * Not 100% deterministic, may take 3 plays to get it to sync up (but will eventually sync up without any change to input) This one gets the TL;DR. I'm not exactly sure why it takes multiple restarts of the replay to get to sync up. I have the same issue, but it may have something to do with how Dolphin loads the rom. I noticed it occasionally takes a different amount of time to load, and the recording always desyncs in one of about 4 locations. If it gets past all four spots (which are all within the first 30 seconds) then the entire video will be correctly synced. To avoid this problem, try starting your input (so in this case, entering your name, since the Wii warning screen only needs start to be held down) a frame or two later than when it actually accepts it. That way, if there's a discrepancy in how the Dolphin loads the rom, your inputs will still sync up. Just my guess, though. I haven't tested this fully. And lastly, to sync better, save a main save-state to one you don't use very often (#8) at the beginning of a section (anywhere from a single screen to the whole level). Then run through the section using the other save states as often as you need, but write down (in notepad) what inputs need to be performed on whatever frames. It only needs to make sense to you, so it can be as ambiguous as you like. Here's an example excerpt from mine for MM10: 12 /\21 fall 22 30-35 43-49 59 x91 x93 98-x01-x07 x10 27-38 x50 68 That wont make sense to anyone but me. Once you've completed the section and have everything written down, load your main save-state (#8), and run through the section using the input you wrote down and using minimum save-states (only every so often to redo mistakes). The Dolphin can rerecord through saved/loaded states, but it does a much better job when they aren't used in rapid succession or at all. After you've completed the section, save the recording and play it back to see if it synced. Save states along the way, and if it desynced, load a state from a little before the desync and continue recording using the inputs your wrote down. Rinse and repeat. Lengthy process but it works for me. Hope that helps.
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Megadestructor had 1:51 after Tornado Man. Here's agwawaf with 1:49 after Tornado Man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RZRFNjJzIU He then finishes Splash Woman at 3:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leaG1Sf4nfo And finally finishes Concrete Man at 4:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhaNxjHf1eE He was disappointed with the concrete run and wanted to redo it but never came back to MM9. Just some routes to get you started.
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That's what I did. Tried a bunch of different combinations of enemy killing/evading and it did change his patterns, but it actually made the wait longer for his optimal pattern. Proto Man and Bass might have better luck because they can get to him faster but Mega Man just has to wait for a split second. I really want to improve that part though. I have a theory that killing an enemy moves his pattern repertoire over one or a few frames. I'm not sure which way though (sooner or later). I'll try to test this out tomorrow. If it's true, then killing as many (or as few) enemies as possible might be enough to bring his optimal pattern into the correct frame for me to run straight through.
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^Agree. And unfortunately after several hours of testing, it seems Commando Man simply refuses to do his optimal pattern unless you wait for about half a second. :(
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Shock guards and beat calls can still be used for Mr. Perfect because Mega Man doesn't actually suffer any damage by using them. And yes Pump's route isn't nearly as optimal so I'm glad I'm starting with Commando. As for everything else you mentioned, I've now resolved all of of those problems. I found a way to kill the red Tsurare Stamp without stopping at all. You can't fire every other frame because not all the shots damage him, but you can alternate a 3/4 frame wait between shots near the top of your jump. I'm guessing this has something to do with subpixels? My novice-ness is showing. :( The first 1-up was solved with the Rush Coil cancel trick. It's now actually faster to grab it. And as for Blade Man, I've found a faster strategy that ends in the middle and doesn't take any damage. Right now, I'm trying to manipulate Commando Man's pattern by killing different combinations of enemies. That's the last thing I need to iron out.
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Yes its possible, and with this trick can clear the spike gap, but I still need a beat call for the pit. Since I have to go to the store anyways for Beat, its then faster to just purchase a spike protector (since its right next to beat). It takes too long for rush to come down to save time over the spike protector.
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Found another trick. Not sure if it can be classified as a glitch like the boss invincibility timers, but it's a neat trick that's useful in some circumstances. If you cancel Rush Coil (by switching weapons) at the exact same frame you land on him, the very next frame (only) you can use his elevated height as a platform and perform a regular jump without the extra height from the coil. Useful if you need a slightly higher jump than a regular one, but not as high as the coil. I used this trick during the backwards sandstorm and saved 11 frames. I might be able to use this during the Tri-castle fight as well.
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Ahh so much to answer and me with my little phone to type replies on. -_- @DarkKobold Wait for what exactly? I need the items to survive the long spikes and pit. Without those items I'd need a slower route starting with another boss to have Rush Jet at those places. @Andypro Yea, you're right. So far I've managed to keep the fastest route out of harms way. I would love to finish without damage and have Mr. Perfect pop up at the end. But I'll decide my priority and make the final decision when I come across a conflicting scenario. @ALAKTORN Thanks for your attention to detail. The refill was another instance I was planning on cutting out in the rerun. I'll see if I can use the buster at a certain part, otherwise I'll skip the 1-up. And as for beat, no. Shorter the better. You want to fall into the pit as early as possible because of the time it takes for him to actually come down to reach you. When I made a big jump, I spent nearly the whole time hugging the wall on my way up and it was slower. Maybe a slightly larger jump would be optimal so I'm released a frame before I need to jump again.
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