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Here is the Fillmore sim completed, finally. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/595590574/ActRaiser_%28U%29_Zidanax_and_Dunnius_WIP_2.smv
This is an improvement of 37 frames and 4 population (it is 118 at the end) over my previous Fillmore run. This took a long time due to difficulties coming up with a soul counter of 24 before the second construction cycle, and also some bad luck during the fourth construction building phase that caused frame loss. I had gained 49 frames before the construction, but had only gained 12 by the end. So I had to find another path that caused the building to be done a different way to reduce the frame loss.
I decided to compare this run against Zidanax's up to the end of the Fillmore sim and try to adjust for the differences. Zidanax's run ends the sim at frame 20393, but doesn't get the items from the people before Act 2, so I added that in and so it ends at frame 20576. My run ends the sim at frame 19094, but I skip an entire construction cycle, so when I add that in using a slower build calculated from testing my previous run, it ends at frame 20509, and is 67 frames faster than Zidanax's. Obviously, Zidanax's run is not fully optimized and there may some other impact based on luck, but it looks like two runs are around even.
I am glad to be done with FIllmore so I can start working on Bloodpool. I hope it will be easier to TAS.
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I am more than halfway through the Fillmore sim, and I expect to be done real soon as long as I don't have any more interruptions.
I discovered that if a monster is killed and its spirit arrives at the temple right before the lag before the construction, it increases the soul counter for the current construction and spawns another monster so that it can be killed while the town is under construction, increasing the soul counter for the next construction. This can be used to increase the soul counter by up to four, though it would be difficult to do that. This is only useful before any of the monster's lairs are sealed, so its usefulness is limited. Obviously this is not useful for Fillmore because of the houses that catch on fire and that it is easy to get lots of souls killing the napper bats. Now I really want to finish Fillmore so I can start testing Bloodpool.
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I was optimizing Fillmore by removing the extra road and removing the extra direct the people, but that ended up costing frames. I figured out why and discovered a way to save frames in the simulation. When directing the people, there is a limit of 8 squares of movement. If you hit that limit, there is an extra 8 frames of lag before the message that says that the town will be built as directed. By splitting the "direct the people" command into two, up to 6 frames are saved. The best frame gain is when the angel is on the border of the square before the split, and as far away as possible in the main direction of movement after the split, which is 38 units apart. The reason for the savings is that the construction counter increments while the angel travels the distance, which saves up to 19 frames. However, the extra "direct the people" is slower by 21 frames, but since this method is used to avoid the 8 frame lag, this ends up saving 6 frames.
So naturally this calls for a route modification. If my planned route works, I am sure I will save the 32 frames needed to be faster than the 6 cycle Fillmore. Most of the improvement has to do with a more efficient path getting the extra roads in the south.
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Here is the WIP with the Fillmore sim TASed. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/107237543/ActRaiser%20%28U%29%20Zidanax%20and%20Dunnius%20WIP%201.smv
I figured out how to get the last lair destroyed before the fifth construction cycle without wasting frames. This removes a construction cycle and the people's message about that destroying that one rock. It also has another benefit, another cheat road. By waiting a few frames after the fifth construction cycle, a road will be built over the blue dragon lair. I think this should be done after act 2 so that the extra increment to the construction counter that is wasted by coming back to Fillmore could be put to some use.
I stayed up until 2 in the morning in order to complete this, so forgive me if there are any minor errors. I am going to go over this and fix anything that I see.
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zidanax wrote:
But in order to get the people to build a house by the river in Fillmore, I had to manage to collect 24 souls on the second turn.
I used the fifth construction cycle for the people to build on the square by river. After that, I built over to the final lair. It isn't really slower for me since my path requires two "direct the people" to get to the final lair. Also, the construction counter is the same for all towns so waiting for the people to get to the lair does not lose frames. However, you are right that the people should build on that square earlier because it means that there is more time in the first cycle of Bloodpool to increase the soul counter. Also, the blue dragon monster lair would be destroyed before the fifth construction which means more population since that improves the houses to be build. I have some ideas in Fillmore to accomplish this. I haven't had a chance to start on the TAS, but now I am really excited about this.
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I am convinced that removing the extra construction cycle in Fillmore will end up being faster overall. If for some reason the extra cycle had to be made up in another town, Fillmore would be building up alongside the other town. My current WIP is unoptimized, but when I get some free time this week, I am going to TAS the Fillmore simulation. I like the idea of using the strength of angel item and the bomb item to get a higher soul counter on Bloodpool and other towns; I never thought of that. Now I have an idea for Bloodpool that I want to try.
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I was working on my test run for the simulation of Fillmore and Bloodpool yesterday. I also think that the one extra road may not be necessary in Fillmore; it takes too many frames to get it. The other extra roads in the south are okay since there are three of them together and it doesn't take that many extra frames to get them. I also removed one construction cycle in Fillmore over your WIP, and I am working on optimizing Bloodpool right now.
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I know there are other editors, but I like to write my own programs when possible so that they work the way I want. I plan to release my editor when I am finished with the beta testing in case it is useful for anyone else.
I understand how to do the action sequences, but I think it would take too long for me do it. So I would rather have someone else more experienced do that part. I know I can handle the simulation sequences, and I would like to focus on that.
I still haven't looked at your WIP 5, but I will do that when I get a chance. I have been too busy with work lately.
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Hi, Zidanax. I have been secretly working on Actraiser, though I just started. I have been distracted making my own SMV frame editor, which is nearly done. I am looking at improving the simulation part with the idea of cheat roads and decreasing the number of construction cycles. I was going to ask for someone else to do the action part, since it is too complicated for me since I am a noob, so I am glad that you are back.
I had been looking at your WIP 4, and I improved the very first part of the Fillmore sim by 14 frames by starting 2 frames sooner, and moving down before doing the lightning, which makes the construction start 12 frames sooner, since the counter stops when choosing where to use the lightning.
I am excited to watch your WIP 5, and I am going to force myself to get back to work on this.
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Slowking wrote:
But you really first have to be there at 3:30 (the Aliens enter the barn at ~3:50 so that should give you enough time). It gets a little complicated through the Epona cutscene, but 3:30 should still suffice.
We should arrive at the Epona cutscene as late as possible to avoid waiting; Mukki's run arrives way too early. This will save frames by making use the time doing useful things, or skipping it altogether. The amount of time that will be needed to destroy the first set of aliens at the last possible moment will determine the latest time of arrival, which I imagine would be later than 3:30.
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I can't figure out the change in CPU usage with the different sections of the animation, but I did check my browser's user agent.
It is Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.1.20) Gecko/20081217 Firefox 2.0.0.20. It is definately not an X11 version, so that is why I am getting the animation.
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Bisqwit wrote:
There is a very short sleep.
Mario and Luigi are both animated at 35 ms intervals (about 28 fps), except when sleeping (off-screen), when it is 0.2 s intervals (about 5 fps).
It works by calling setTimeOut to schedule the next event of the animator at the end of the each event.
Ah, so that wouldn't be the problem. I believe my computer has 100% CPU usage even when Mario or Luigi are off screen. I will verify that when I get home.
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Bisqwit wrote:
Mario has not been restricted. Only Luigi, who appears on the front page, has.
Proof that Bisquit hates Luigi. :-D Just kidding.
Bisqwit wrote:
Warp wrote:
If you really want that javascript animation to be there, couldn't it be made lighter? Does javascript support some sleep() function or something, to make the animation advance less often?
Mario in slow motion? No thanks.
As I had mentioned before, a very short sleep could solve this, and it would not be that noticeable. In the C programs that I have written that draw on the screen and run in a constant loop, there is a big difference in the CPU usage between having no sleep and a one millisecond sleep.
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I finally downloaded the video (took a long time with only one seeder and a 200+ downloaders) and watched the Sunsoft levels. Great job, Lord Tom.
So I guess that the extra frame will not be added so that the ending music will work properly? I guess future versions can add the frame in.
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Bisqwit wrote:
I have disabled it for X11 based Firefox clients, identified by the string "X11;" in the HTTP user agent. If "G4 Mac" has this same mishap, maybe I should disable it for that one too.
However, I do not know how to identify G4 browsers.
Hmm, I am using Firefox 2.0.0.20 on the G4, which I guess would be X11, so therefore the animation is supposed to be disabled. I also tried the site with Safari, and it works okay; it only increases the CPU usage by a small amount. So the problem is not with the G4.
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Xkeeper wrote:
There is one, turn off Javascript
On my old G4 Mac that I use for seeding the videos, the animation causes the CPU usage to go to 100%. Turning off Javascript solves the problem, though I dislike having to do that. One solution would be to slow the animation down slightly by using a short Sleep command. I like the animation, and I agree with Twelvepack that it gives the site personality.
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DarkKobold wrote:
Really strange that there is no music during the credits... All that work for.... lemmings cleaning?
I believe there is supposed to be music playing during the credits; it sounds like there may be a bug. I will have to wait for an encode to watch this since I can't play it.
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As a big fan of Lemmings, I voted 10/10. I was thoroughly entertained by the alternative methods used to pass off the levels. I never felt the need to fast forward since I love the music, but I had to rewind frequently to see when something was done or how something was done since those moments are easy to miss. I was very impressed with the timing of the lemmings; they would arrive just as they are needed. That must have been a pain to figure out.
I agree with a few others that the Sunsoft levels should be appended to this run. There are credits after the Sunsoft levels so it would make this run have a proper ending. Also, the goal of the run would then be "beats the game as quickly as possible without passwords." I also think the cutscene after Mayhem 30 should then be skipped since it is relatively boring and long.
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petrie911 wrote:
dunnius wrote:
The midnight cutscene only happens in South Clock Town or Termina Field. So the fastest way to skip the cutscene is to be transitioning to South Clock Town at midnight. Another way is inside the Clock Tower where the mask salesman is, though time stops in there so I don't know if that would work.
Actually, during a normal cycle, the midnight cutscene only plays in SCT. However, during the first cycle, the midnight cutscene plays no matter where you are. A different one plays if you're in Termina Field, but even if you're (somehow) in STT, the scene still plays.
Sorry, my mistake. I didn't want to start a new game on the console version because there are only two save slots. Well, I erased one of the games so I could do some testing. The cutscene also happens inside of buildings, which I did not know. Now I wonder if it is possible to skip the cutscene by doing a screen transition just before midnight. If time flows a little during the transition and can't be interrupted by midnight, then it could be possible. I wish I could get Mupen to work on my computer.
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petrie911 wrote:
However, as much as I hate to say it, it might be better to do a second round of rupee gathering in the field. I didn't realize how quick getting 99 rupees would be. Getting those rupees now (and hence the Adult Wallet) would save a trip to ECT on the next cycle and a conversation with the banker. Considering that it was about 22:10 when you talked to the banker and rupee gathering took you about 2:05, I think getting those extra rupees would be worth it even though you won't get to the Clock Tower exactly on time.
It depends whether it ends up being the fastest way to get an extra 99 (or 100) rupees. I don't know how many rupees this run will require or where other rupees will be collected, but it may be the case that it is better to wait to get more rupees later because it will be faster to do so.
AKA wrote:
That actually gives me an idea, the cutscene at mid-night lasts for 35 seconds. Does it start if you are anywhere in CT bar CCT? If it starts initiates regardless of where you are in CT then you could go into Termina and come back into CT the moment the count down starts.
The midnight cutscene only happens in South Clock Town or Termina Field. So the fastest way to skip the cutscene is to be transitioning to South Clock Town at midnight. Another way is inside the Clock Tower where the mask salesman is, though time stops in there so I don't know if that would work.
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z0MG wrote:
dunnius wrote:
In the third cycle, you can save frames by getting to Romani Ranch as late as possible (before 3:45 AM, of course) and reduce the waiting there.
That makes no sense, unless the time can be spent collecting rupees or something useful.
That is what I meant; the time should be spent being useful instead of waiting at the ranch. Mukki could have arrived at the ranch at least 30 terminian minutes later.
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Thanks YautjaElder and Duksandfish. I still can't get Mupen64 to work properly on my computer so I will have to rely on the encodes. Good work, Swordless Link!
In the third cycle, you can save frames by getting to Romani Ranch as late as possible (before 3:45 AM, of course) and reduce the waiting there.
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petrie911:
Only possible changes would be rupee sources. Some of those 20r chests really seem like there's a better way.
I am not a fan of those two chests either.
I believe that collecting and depositing 99 rupees in cycle 1 is faster than getting the two 20 rupee chests before Romani Ranch and the 50 rupee chest in South Clock Town after the Great Bay Temple.
Getting the rupees in cycle 1 is slower by 4 screen transitions, but the deposit is not slower since the one at the beginning of cycle 3 is skipped because the Adult Wallet is obtained in cycle 2.
The two 20 rupee chests each involve two mask changes and some dialog time, plus some additional time for being out of the way.
The 50 rupee chest has some dialog time and a number of seconds of additional time for being out the way. The mask change here doesn't count since it will be used either way.
This method also collects 9 more rupees which may not have to be luck manipulated from the shrubs.
Also, I wonder if it is possible to exit West Clock Town as the Deku Scrub using the glitch and save 2 screen transitions. If can get my computer to run Mupen64, I will try that out.
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I think we can skip the Inverted Song of Time and save frames by a minor route change in cycles 1 and 3. I am listing the changes only to make it easier to read (those are the lines that start with a hyphen.) The time comparisons are approximate because I was only using the existing movie file and the console system to test some timing.
Cycle 1
- Make use of the spare time waiting for midnight to collect and deposit 99 more rupees (AKA has done this already, but getting the Adult Wallet in cycle 1 is not necessary.)
This will result in 4 extra screen transitions (about 3 seconds each for a total of about 12 seconds) and extra dialogue depositing the rupees (about 9 seconds.)
Cycle 2
- There are no changes to the route, but the Adult Wallet is obtained here which adds more dialog (about 6 seconds.)
So at the end of Cycle 2, we are about 27 seconds behind.
Cycle 3
- Start the cycle by going directly to the bank and withdrawing 200 rupees.
Skipping the East Clock Town treasure chest removes 2 screen transitions (about 6 seconds) and the dialog opening the chest (about 3.5 seconds.) Also, since depositing the rupees and getting the Adult Wallet is skipped since it happened earlier, that recovers about 15 seconds. Now we are only about 2.5 seconds behind.
The reason for doing this is that it saves about 40 Terminian minutes which will be useful later.
- Skip playing the Inverted Song of Time twice.
This saves about 30 seconds, but I can't claim about 4 seconds of that since it was already pointed out that the ISoT can be done faster. Now we are about 27.5 seconds ahead.
Since time is not slowed down, about 80 extra Terminian minutes pass. Since we were already ahead about 40 minutes, now we are behind 40 minutes. This causes Link to arrive at the Epona cutscene at about 3:32 AM instead of about 2:52 AM. Since the aliens take the cows at about 3:45 AM, there is just enough time to shoot the aliens. It is a tight fit, but I think it will work.
