22 seconds is amazing! I can't wait to see it.
About searching for speed addresses:
I don't know the fastest method, but this is, how I search for them. It's basically the equal/not equal zero method, as zero is the only value, that does not fluctuate much and is independent from the direction you are facing:
-face a direction that is not parallel to a likely coordinate system, to prevent the unlikely case, that the y- or x-speed is always zero
-come to a complete stop (plus some frames, due to occasional offset) and search for "equal 0". Then accelerate for a good amount off time (due to delay) and search for "not equal 0".
-repeat the steps until there can't be more filtered (maybe 20 addresses, with the new script of L-spiro, that doesn't take long anymore)
-then look through each address, if it makes no sense (like having only 2 different values, or not having some proportionality to the speed). To erase them, I pause emulation, when my speed is not 0 and right click on the address and click something like "reset to 0" and filter it afterwards by searching for "not equal 0".
-to see, which address it for x and y, I usually grind something parallel to the coordinate system and see which one goes to 0.
The remaining addresses (general, x and y all together) are, what I posted here.
I possibly didn't tell you anything new, but I thought, in the case someone knows a better way, he might post it here afterwards :)
In case you overlooked it, I also posted the addresses for the school here.
Getting the secret tape in downhill that way would save a ton of time. However, playing around in real time, I could not even get close to it. Good luck there.
offtopic: With your next post, I think you'll be a vested member.
This was also one of the first games I played on the genesis. Unfortunately, I was too young to understand how to stop the falling wall in the second pyramid :)
Good improvement to a movie, that I already enjoyed watching.
If anyone wants to work out some plaussible strats for downtown Minneapolis that'd be nice. I think there's lots of ways to do it and I don't want to overlook something.
I do not have as much experience with his game like you, but I thought I give it a shot. Also, with the map other player like Zurreco can give their suggestions easier.
[URL=http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tonyhawksmap4ix2.jpg][/URL]
One way is S,5,A,T,4,E,tape,1,K,2,3 (however, long way without grinds from S to 5)
If you can get the tape without jumping off the roof and "T" from the other side, you could go S,1,K,2,3,tape,E,4,T,A,5
I don't think it is possible, but getting the tape right at the start, would make that route even faster.
Needles to say, I'd love to see that run, especially from you.
That's why I though, I should remind you, that today is October 23rd :)
About the addresses: Good and bad news.
Good news: These addresses from MHS seem to be the speed addresses (still behave a little strange and there seem to be multiple ones, so I'm not very sure about them)
x-speed1: 010C1D2C
x-speed2: 010C1F44
x-speed3: 010C4020
y-speed1: 010C1D34
y-speed2: 010C1F4C
y-speed3: 010C4028
general1: 010C1C3C
general2: 010C1C40
general3: 010C1C44
general4: 010C1C48
(of course, I don't know which one is x and y, so I was guessing)
Bad news: Like in THPS3, these addresses only work for one level (warehouse), so they will have to be found again for each new level.
EDIT: more strange addresses for second level (school)
general1: 010BFDF0 (probably most useful)
general2: 010BFDF4
general3: 010BFDF8
general4: 010BFDFC
general5: 010BFE00
general6: 010BFE04
general7: 010BFE08
x-speed1: 010BFEEC
x-speed2: 010C0104
x-speed3: 010C21E0
x-speedreversed: 010BFF04 (opposite sign)
y-speed1: 010BFEE4
y-speed2: 010C00FC
y-speed3: 010C21D8
y-speedreversed: 010BFEFC (opposite sign)
general1 has low numbers, thus easier to monitor. general2-7 are nearly the same. The reversed x and y speed also have lower numbers, but opposite sign and tend to drop to zero more often (during jumps, grinds etc.)
Track times are 58:38, 56:53 and ~56:30, which is somewhere near the wr with the super bike spectre (56:60). None super bike records seem to be somewhere around 1'06.
By the way, thanks for the link. I could not find much information about that game and these records are very interesting.
I underestimated the importance of acceleration, as I thought the only cause of decelerations are walls. However, ramps and other stuff also slow down a lot. As I won't submit it anyway, I'll restart with spectre/no bike via password and hope that I can go past sonic speed a little bit more^^
With the password I can also access meltdown, which allows me to drive all 12 tracks in one GP.
According to gamefaqs.com smoke and flame exhaust give little/greater speed. Despite having read about that before, I never really noticed a big difference while playing. I'll still try to get them, if possible.
Of course, there are also nitros on the way (red "N" on the floor), that give boosts similar to a regular nitro.
Extreme G2 is probably the second fastest racing game for the N64 after F-Zero. I personally like the game play of the first part way more, however the possibility of precise steering, the fact, that simply driving a turn without touching the wall speeds significantly up and breaking the sound barrier make it an interesting candidate for a tas.
Optimising this game is very difficult (like most racing games), so I'm only doing a test tas of the small GP (4 tracks) for the few people who actually played this game, players who motivates this movie to make an actual tas and mostly to occupy my mind.
In hindsight, I should not have picked the bike with the best max speed (worst acceleration), as deceleration can't be avoided at ramps and points with a high change of acclivity. But maybe the next tracks will be better,
I'll post the movie file, when it is finished. (rerecords something around 2-3000)
edited youtubevideo of the first track
My only real complaint would be the sudden end to the last secret level. Seemed to me to be a little anti-climatic. From someone who has not played the game, it looked like a level that should be played through the whole way. Though no idea if that would be to the bottom of the hill or till the timer ran out.
The only purpose of the last level is to place the remaining 10 stat points somewhere and offering a fun level to play, as one can skate at high speed due to going always downhill. At the bottom is nothing, but a bowl and some rails, so unfortunately no additional goal.
Does this game have an end? I didn't see any credits in the Youtube video.
Actually, there are credits. Unfortunately they come after Tokyo and thus have to be skipped to access the bonus level at the end. One can see a short glimpse at 5:56 in the second part of the youtube video. I tried to make up for the missing credits by displaying the final maxed out stats. I admit that the end is still a little dry.
Funny thing about the SKATE letters. Never noticed that. :)
TASes of both games, THPS and THPS 2 would be very interesting, mostly due to the reasons you stated. One thing to consider about the second part is, that it is by far the most played instalment of the three parts.
However, I don't know if such an oversupply of THPS runs at this rather early state of N64 tasing is that desired. (Me, I'd love to see these runs)
Are there any unassisted high-score lists out there? It might be helpful to have them here for comparison.
Unfortunately, I could find such a list for the N64 port. Especially none, that don’t exceed the time limit, as The Great Morphologous already said.
Can you upload it to Google Video? I hate these tiny YouTube animated postage stamps. Or a .deb-package of the emulator would be nice too o_O
At the moment, I am not planning to do that, as I don't have a googlevideo account yet and admittedly due to laziness. This is not a final decision though.
Basically you should try to link up tricks more and get the most multiplier going up a vert ramp and spinning while doing grabs isn't much of a spectacle.
As stated in the submission text, the multiplier for the N64 port can't exceed 43 (unlike to came cube or PC versions, where the limit is somewhere around 250). As this value is always reached in competitions, the highscores are limited by the gathered score.
THPS 3 is the only part for N64, that features reverts, allowing to build up many points. Not using this feature would simply be spare capacity. Also note, that the N64 port does not include the point massing tricks that are available on better systems (like super hand clap) and some good tricks like the "assume the position" are only available after Tokyo.
Based on the bubbling diherrea that was the Youtube video, my vote would probably be around "kind of yes I guess".
I am really sorry about the quality of the youtube video. I tried my best to achieve a more visually pleasing version, but to no avail.
Thanks to all for their time watching the movie and stating their opinions. Every feedback is very appreciated.
finished
I also did the bonus level for the stats and finished with a picture of the maxed out stats to make up for the skipped credits.
Please tell me, if I should delete this.
Submission text and youtube stuff will need a little time, as university starts again tomorrow.
canada done
I'm sorry about the elevator, but due to the upward movement, Tony can't jump properly to perform tricks. There are no grind spots either. However, Chamale actually made a good point about the need of a pause.
Both, the game and run are pretty enjoyable (except for that strange dash^^), which makes me wonder, why I never heard of it. Never fastforwarded, thus well done. Especially the route looked well planned to me.
Sorry, that I can't be more active in the forum atm, but the internet connection is pretty bad here at my partents (-> no IRC and seldom forum for me). I expect to be back in munich around tuesday. Then everything is back to normal.
IMHO the most entertaining (but also somewhat arbitrary) way to deal with competitions is:
first run: go purely for score, land the combo just before time runs out
second run: get the stats, throw in a bunch of combos to reach the gold medal, then end the competition
showing a second 1-minute-combo probably wouldn't be a good idea, since the second run will either look mostly the same (boring!), or get a different score (showing that the other run wasn't optimal).
getting the stats first is probably a little slower in the menu, but might allow for higher competition scores if you spend them between runs, so that's an option too.
That sounds like a good idea to me. I'll go for that.
was the benihana close to the end of the first level faster than just turning around? Was this part of the speed vs. entertainment tradeoffs you were talking about?
You probably mean the vert before the stat point before the "K". Too bad, that this is noticeable. I needed the speed to reach that stat point. I could not even chain it into a combo, as revert and manual would slow down too much. It's the least entertaining part of that level, but the only way I found.
Speed vs. entertainment tradeoffs so far are more reverts and manuals do create bigger combos (but slower) and doing a little trick (like a no comply) at the end, to force an instant point calculation displaying the final score before I leave the level.
IIRC, Ollie makes your ollies more powerful in all situations, but it's not totally noticeable. Air makes everything you do in the air faster (ie tricks and spins), and Hangtime simply makes you fall slower (ie no gravitational change).
That makes sense. Thanks for solving that mystery for me. I can't believe, I could not find something in the internet.
Would it be too much to ask for an avi(youtube would be great!) ?
I would have tried to make an avi after each 100MB anyway. I just have to wait with the upload until I'm at home due to the internet connection.
I'm currently in suburbia and will upload a wip next week.
I started a new movie with the second level finished.
It gets all goals, except the gaps with Tony Hawk making some entertainment-speed trade offs (which is a little difficult for me^^).
Now at the contests I have many possibilities, not knowing what to chose.
a) do longest possible combos, exceeding the 1 minute time limit (might last very long, considering the fact, that the balance meters can be reset by starting a new combo right before the end, possibly even mid-combo)
b) skate the full minute and don't add tricks afterwards.
c) skate to a specific score (like 5 million)
d) skate until perfect judge score 99.9 (does 100.0 exist?)
f) skate till gold medal (like time attack, but also collecting the stats)
e) none, THPS 3 is just not suited for a tas
I personally tend to 1 minute runs, possibly mixing, like collecting stats in first run and do a 1 minute run at the second heat (but is a little bit too arbitrary).
I also have a question about stats:
I maxed speed after the first level as it makes sense due to faster runs. However, should other things be maxed out? Scorewise air, hangtime, ollie, turning and switch are useful. Balance is not such an important issue.
However to max out everything, the 10 stats in the extra level should be gathered, too. but then the credits might have to be skipped, too.
I'd be glad, if I can get some opinions about that.
Another question statwise:
What exactly do air, hangtime and ollie do?
Does ollie only enhance jumps on flat surfaces or also vert jumps?
How is hangtime prolonged? By less gravity, slower falling or higher jumping?
What does air do then?
I could not find answers at gamfaqs.com and would be glad, if someone can help me on this. thanks in advance
EDIT: movie so far
Suburbia is has three collection goals, with one only requiring to collect 3 things ("disrespect the dishes), making it feasible to stay in the level longer. Plus they can be linked in a very fluid path; so taking one out won't save much time.
"Taking the flags" is indeed a considerable goal, but during test runs, the collection procedure needed comparatively much time. I might be wrong about it though.
(Accessing the airport due to number of goals would not have been an issue)
I recently tried tasing a N64 game with a gampad, but met the problem that I couldn’t find hotkeys the change the savestates. As long as it is not of too much work, it would be nice, if that could be implemented, if there will be a new version. Thanks in advance.
Speaking of advance, I had a problem with the framadvance hotkey (wow, how funny^^).
Holding the key on the keyboard, the emulator plays the game at normal speed, as needed. However, when I assign the key via JoyToKey to the gamapad, holding down the button, does not work (in contrast to gens). In case, that does not happen to me, it could be helpful to fix that.
Thanks for you fast responses and explaining your opinions about the run. I appreciate that.
As previously stated, a 100% run is unfavourable, as it should include also all gaps (plus the ones from the bonus levels) and probably be completed with all characters (plus bonus characters) and still have the same competition runs, if that should be done in the fastest time.
Everything between time attack and 100% tends to be arbitrary and a bad basis for obsoletion.
A consensus of the run, some of you propose would be "complete 100% of the game except the gaps and with one skater only, completing as fast as possible but skating the full minute in the competitions and allowing to sacrifice speed to chain combos, not doing the same combo again, even if it takes longer for the same benefits and not jumping so often while grinding." :)
However, I do understand your concerns about the run, mostly the way upthorn described it.
OmniLiquid wrote:
The biggest problem in my mind is the identical input on the heats in skater island and tokyo, but it was just a mess all throughout, really.
That where the combos with the best point/time ratio, I could find. In a time attack, it would be contradictory to do another combo for the same amount of points, but taking longer.
What do you mean with a mess? That the route planning and execution was messy or that you personally just did not like watching this game being time attacked?
What was the reason for choosing the Tony Hawk? I see he's tied with many for speed, but what else was there?
Tony Hawk is picked for two reasons:
1. the weak ollie is never a problem, as a boneless was always enough to get the needed height. Smitch can be compensated by grinding or simply avoiding and rail balance is not important in a TAS. His other attributes are good for making points in competitions and speeding through the levels.
2. Switching the character takes about half a second each. In the worst case I lose 4 seconds, which is unlikely to be compensated by a minor stat change.
EDIT: crappy youtube video of the run
On Surburbia, I notice you spent most of the time in Switched Stance, which makes you go slower. This could've been avoided by doing half a turn less on the initial jump, or simply pressing R when you are just skating along flat ground. I'm sure that would help
You are right, I didn't notice that. Thanks.
I have to restart anyway, as I realized during the last competition, that I do have to get the gold medals for the credits to roll. So I won't submit it today.
About that 100% goals run: One problem with that run is, that I don't know, if one also has to get all gaps, which would take forever. The bonus level might have to be considered, too.
Amazing run and incredibly good route planning. You constantly surprised me with cool glitches and unexpected routes (I think you only got one small key).
Thanks for going through all that pain and creating such an entertaining movie.
Desynch issue: I have no idea why, but Halamantariel's instructions made the movie synch perfectly. I could even fastforward without any problems.
I wanted to say the same, but Mukki beat me to it.^^
The game choice is good (nice graphics, not much lag, fast paced). And the run itself was quite entertaining (I didn't ff the levels, except overworld).
However there were several moments, that looked dubious to me. Unfortunately, I can't remember them. Since I don't know that game, I will wait for someone to comment the run, who knows the game, until I vote.
Still great run; if the first and second part are similar, I want to see them tased, too.
The choice for the ending looks ok to me, though it would have started to get repetitive after 20 more minutes.
How do you estimate the probability that the makers of the game, which were tased actually saw their game broken (considering youtube) or noticed your site? (excluding hacks)
Though unlikely, has there even been any interaction between them and tasvideos?
Good ol' mask still likes to desynch :)
It has been some time since I watched the published run, still the boss fights very noticeably improved and looked well manipulated.
Great run, easy yes vote.
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One way is S,5,A,T,4,E,tape,1,K,2,3 (however, long way without grinds from S to 5)
If you can get the tape without jumping off the roof and "T" from the other side, you could go S,1,K,2,3,tape,E,4,T,A,5
I don't think it is possible, but getting the tape right at the start, would make that route even faster.