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cool, have you tried going through the middle section with mines instead of taking the upper path?, last time I got pushed forward by the mines gaining a lot of speed
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No need for mirror move ditto guys, ok maybe..., the wild alternative is at pokemon tower 5F, mirror move is closer (gary at 2F) but your lvl 100 has to lose to his fearow.
About mew getting to 10, remember mew doesn't have to fight, it requires 324 exp, which means any pkmn that gives 648+ will do. The lvl 20 butterfree (which could be used while skipping snorlax) gives 685.
Kadabra or Gyarados would be easily poisoned on the switch and help on fainting the lvl 100 pkmn vs gary's fearow.
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Yes that would work, in the next post I corrected myself, but it doesn't matter anymore because you can chain the ditto glitch and that is faster/sooner. At least I think so.
pirate_sephirot if the item list is after and close (in ram) to the party pkmn then it is possible this would work unless crystal added some extra checks.
Hanzou would you happen to have more information about zzazz, ie. from where and why does it pull the garbage data all over the place, why is pewter safe (i'll take it is because the location address has something to do and it ends not poisoning the pkmn), etc. I tried to find out by disassembling but I don't know assembler. I understand how it works but don't know what each instruction does.
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Finally got a trainer list for rb and y:
Getting ditto with trainers: no way, they got 75 and 77 but no 76.
Kadabra special 38:
Red/Wild:
Route 7: 19/22 ODDISH
Route 12: 22 ODDISH
Route 13: 22 ODDISH
also route 14,15,16,17,18 etc, no sooner
Blue/Wild: replace oddish by bellsprout and some levels change but still same areas.
Yellow/Wild: Much closer
Route 11: 17 DROWZEE
Trainers:
RB: Route 24 RIVAL Gary 15 ABRA
RBY: Cerulean City ROCKET TM28 17 DROWZEE
There are several more but these are closer. Others start at pokemon tower and route 12 -> 18.
Anyway, this means you would still have to catch abra to teleport... If the "starter" gets changed to gyarados iv15, he could get to 251 after all the battles on the way, ie. if taking route 13 for ditto there's a calcium down there.
Cool, on yellow, I got the glitched inventory with special FE, not during battle, but without having to save. Problem was that the inventory only increased to 28 which didn't give enough to access the location address.
Ok I got how the inventory glitching works, when zzazz occurs your pkmn party gets glitched, fine. That deletes the "null" byte at the end of your pokemon party. This null marks the end of the list and without it your party has more than 6 "pokemon" (they are garbage though).
When you go to the pkmn box if you deposit one pokemon, the addresses shift one byte because you are taking one pokemon from your party list. The party is stored several bytes before the item list, the game keeps shifting until it finds the null byte, which is gone, the first null on the way is the one that marks the cancel button on the _item_ menu.
The byte that stores how many items you have is right before the byte of your first item, which represents what item you got (master ball, ultra ball, etc). The "random" master balls come from most of your items being just quantity 1 = hex for master ball once the quantity shifts one byte to the item index position (and the items become the quantities).
So by having an item with a high hex index on the first position and storing one pokemon you glitch the inventory, tm 34's hex is high so it increased the item count beyond 20.
You are limited to "255" items because the item count is only one byte = max FF, the highest hex is for the "item" cancel button = TM 55 = 255, if you battle the glitch with just one pokeball, you will end up using it and have zero items (cancel button) and fully glitch the inventory. Now i'll take it you knew about this (you switched bicycle for tm 34 and said the limit was 255) but never explained!
Anyway, that leaves me clueless as to how it was possible to do this during battle except it was just a random event and not something that can be controlled like this byte shift. Only controllable way that comes to mind is that the pokemon activated an overflow of the pokedex's "seen pokemon" wich are right before the item counter, I mean something like "pokemon 161 seen" which is outisde the normal pokedex range and would access the item count and give access to 128 items.
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No no, I did one fight after first FCBM to get my start back, and after the second FCBM I had two more battles, not only are they forced I also needed my start button to cut a tree.
"player under fcbm", = lack of start + idle trainers in any glitched areas, is shared/global = gets overwritten.
But each area has their own "i am glitched" state, which ends after having the random battle, which requires you to enter the area when out of fcbm. yellow at least.
So, the runner can leave glitched areas as he plays, to use later.
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I am getting how to play with the items as if the item list was a gameshark, I started compiling a list of the addresses and their data but of course it misses a lot of addresses, and made a excel sheet that tells what items you have "available" given a vba memory dump, I used it to analyze your superglitch movie and learned a lot, it would be more useful if integrated with the emulator but whatever.
I wasn't able to use the "teleport" address at all, I'm gonna watch your video, don't tell me you teleport to hall of fame directly :)
However, by keeping an eye on that address noticed four addresses that handle your coordinates on the map and the sprite "axis" origin. I managed to use them to skip brock's badge check, victory road (victory road as in the caves), and then to skip the elite four and finish the game... without using nickname? (which btw seems to have a similar effect but perhaps calling a code routine that set some other variables, because those addresses stay untouched).
I hadn't noticed you entered the pokemon menu after each use of nickname, so I kept crashing. Is it perfectly safe to use given that you follow the steps? my other method is, but since it is a bit slower than nickname? I didn't make a video.
So now getting zzazz started is possible earlier, and there are at least two ways to finish the run. So I went to check the actual activation, and... it only works if you fight at Pewter City, otherwise I crash at the tenth step like primo said. I have absolutely no idea how this glitch exactly works in memory, could you please explain why pewter is safe? I mean there has to be a way to manipulate the safe city, pewter is too far, the runners would have to get cut no matter what to be able to take digglets cave or get hm02 so they can fly to pewter.
Edit:
hanzou wrote:
Omg never thought of using the random battle, that is huge, awesome!, and primo said he was able to trigger the inventory glitch while battling, so that would cancel the need for a "safe" city, as there's only 4 steps that might not even count between the battle and the end.
In RB it would be much easier as it is just a quantity.
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Sorry double post, but the other is too long and this is different news.
oh wow lol:
vbm1 (incomplete)vbm2 (ending, the start was hacked, but proves the point)
(dont save as)
vbm2 @youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyrl9kA6ntU
I checked mirror move so much for nothing... my bad, thought you had tested. That's proof of concept of doing zzazz on yellow _without_ mirror move or cinnabar, doubt this is yellow only.
More explanation at video if you do need it, doubt it.
Hanzou:
"01??5DD3 teleport rooms. quantifier digits 76 correspond to the hall of fame. in general you can only use this code _while loading your game_"
Would that work? It pretty much says no, but still, that stuff gets saved? with glitch city/black out?
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I swear I posted a very detailed post yesterday... I'm not typing all that again, this may be better anyway...
necrosaro's research has the wild pokemon for RBY per area, using those I found the wild pokemon possibilities to get a glitched ditto. If you want any other pkmn I can tell quickly. It doesn't include trainer pkmn so if you have such a list it please send it to me (it would have to include pkmn stats and moves), I can even work it out from an hex dump, I just don't know the "addresses" and how to copy the data.
Now I know you can't chain glitches but glitching ditto is still "useful".
This lists options and they aren't in strict order, I don't know what combination gives the fastest result on each R, B and Y:
1. Get nidoking or whatever pkmn you'll use for zzazz. Play until cerulean.
Optional: meet bill, SS Anne captain, get cut and teach it to one of your pkmn. Cut is not necessary, but could be faster.
Mimic:
No pkmn learns it by lvl up so no use here.
Metronome:
Clefairy at level 31, Clefable at lvl 0. No wild or trainer clefairy at those lvls (there's a lvl 30 iirc). Clefable has high glitch special so no use either.
Transform Source:
Only Mew and Ditto may learn transform.
a. glitch lvl 7 mew, give it three rare candies to get transform.
b. (yellow)(cut) glitch ditto using lvl 27 kadabra iv12,13 at route 8.
c. glitch ditto using haunters at 5f/6f pokemon tower (loses gary's fearow).
d. glitch ditto using some trainer I dont know.
e. meet wild ditto (no need to use mirror move, yellow is a bit far).
zzazz with MM:
Only spearow line learns MM early. Pidgeot line has to wait a lot. Can't glitch a mm pkmn because no one learns it at low lvl and can't chain glitches.
a. Gary's fearow @Pokemon Tower has mirror move. Problem: you have to lose to fearow, that is your lvl 100 nidoking lose to lvl 25 nidoking.
b. Route 16/17/18 has spearow lvl 22+ and fearow lvl 25+ which have MM.
c. Possibly some trainer with spearow lvl 22.
How to do zzazz with MM: Before, I had tested switching and fainting after using transform, they don't work. But duh it can miss. Use transform and miss, next round stay there and get the enemy transformed into ditto/mew (they attack first), finally switch to nidoking while the enemy uses their own transform. Paralyzation doesn't work, it has to miss.
Finish zzazz, all badges code is D3 so badges shouldn't be a problem. There's the surfboard too. Now I have no idea if HM02 is there as well.
Getting HM02:
a. It gets glitched with zzazz.
b. Use Nickname? to go through the wall and get HM02.
c. Keep going to fuchsia, perform glitch city and end your steps at route 17, that will teleport you to HM02.
d. (cut) use cut to get HM02, perhaps from a glitched HM01.
MM might be more useful for yellow where wild ditto is very far. I see so many steps that a wild ditto could be faster on RB specially if HM02 gets glitched.
Using mm to do zzazz is not useful in non tas because you'd have to get transform to miss... and the enemy to mirror move next turn... well maybe segmented but good luck.
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hanzou wrote:
Having Ditto late in the game is a real drawback, but there are other possibilities for getting an enemy pokemon to do Transform. What about Metronome? What about learning Transform then getting an enemy to do Mirror Move? What about learning Metronome then getting an enemy to do Mirror Move?
Mirror move fails if you switch (or faint) so fearow cant transform into Nidoking. So at least using mew it wouldn't be possible. Now not sure if theres a fading pokemon that can bring metronome (because if you jump to 100 you dont learn new moves) and have the required special. afaik only clefairy but at lvl 31, and Metronome as a tm is at cinnabar just like ditto so... just rush surf and get to cinnabar.
Unless of course theres a lvl 31+ clefairy or there's a trainer pkmn with the ditto special, you can always faint against the pkmn if it isnt the last one.
Hanzou, I couldn't navigate the glitched item menu like you did, I hit the "bottom" much sooner than you do, you can go several pages down, me can't. Basically when I hit it any up/down presses stop working and I may only leave the menu. By continuing after you retrieved HM02 there was now a "ceiling", could you please explain how to navigate the menu.
I was trying to find HM02 in the glitched items but couldn't, I can't navigate it anyway. In any case I read a report that Glitch City takes you to the exit of the secret house in Route 16, not sure if that would be faster than going to Bill then getting cut then cutting stuff.
</yellow>
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By using the shark code 010156D0 before battling Gary he will keep the last pokemon loaded into memory, and since you most likely defeated it he will be defeated automatically (or at least reduced to just one pokemon). No idea how gameshark works but it is an address right? is the address accessible from the items? you could skip Gary's rematch at Viridian.
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Hmm maybe, Pokemon Yellow (U).gb (crc=151, check=1148), just downloaded vba193 from tasvideos (maybe yours is 190 if it existed?), used the play function not record (lol).
no L+R, no turbo, no hold, accurate emulation speed, pause when inactive, synchronize speed, real time clock, gba lag reduction, automatic flash 64k save. Or you are out of luck, wait for a youtube link.
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On the final level, the second climbing part (with enemies), the antigravity you are given at the entrance is faster than carrying RL, using it you can skip the climbing...
Allow L+R and fire while holding R, then hold L and you will be able to go backwards while firing forward, useful against the final boss, specially on its first form which requires you to stay away from him (or it goes into another state, invincible one). It could also help against the third worm boss to "enter" while firing.
I want to make a speed run of this game, so getting you to make the tas would really help me on the "optimal path" ;o
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Ah, cool then, plus the new ones I added this year? They are not SO different but have a couple things, they are at the end of the list, they also have comments on possible improvements I thought later.
Also I was playing level 5 with Nitro and fell on top of a Havok, sharing hitboxes. And it used its melee attack while I was boosting out of him and I went hyperspeed in the direction I was trying to go, I mean it was very fast and the boost lasted long I skipped like 1.5 mountains in one second, even with that I couldn't do that level faster than the way I already use, but still, its something to look for in other levels.
On level 5 the first explosion triggers the shield generator's power core destruction, you have to wait until the whole animation plays, you can get out of the mech and jump in a way the explosion almost kills you, activate the switch then go back to your mech and keep going without losing time there.
Hah found a faster way to destroy the cannon on level 5, get on top of the cannon then you will fall inside and from there you can attack without getting damage. Havok's route is pretty easy to pull off.
Nitro would be the fastest now (I have like 50% success, edit: wait just made it again and again and much better, it is 100%). There's a Havok on a platform on the way, you could get him to give you a push by shooting the platform so he falls on top of you and hopefully do its melee attack while you boost, I obviously haven't been able to do that.
Now, Havok does about the same time, Nitro disposes of the cannon faster, but Havok gets there sooner. On my runs Havok is one second slower, you would have to test which can do it faster...
I can't tell if getting the rocket launcher speeds things, because when I pick it I can't pull off the same stuff. However I doubt falling, destroying the turret to get the RL and raising again will end up being faster because the cannon goes down very fast already with the beam sabre.
Level 7 Worm Bosses die much faster if you use the forward strike. I even have managed to kill them in two iterations: 3-3, although the usual is 2-3-2. Getting out and in of the suit to evade their attack first is extremely hard to do and second is slower than flying while shooting.
I redid level 8, adding some path change and manipulation on the last Havok (so he falls and you don't have to destroy it). Uploaded along with the new level 5 to the playlist.
On level 9, leaving Nitro as soon as you destroy the cannon is faster. At the second section where you have to climb moving things, I wasn't able to climb to the top in the first iteration, always come close but can't and have to wait.
The second climbing part, this time with enemies, Havok has enough power to climb a whole level without having to use the "left" side. There are three possible weapons to bring to the final boss, RL, the accelerator and antigravity. I find with both Havok and Prometheus antigravity makes the battle faster. Just use it when the boss goes to spawn those flying turrets, and the boss will receive all damage. Of the two I always end the battle earlier with Prometheus even though Havok has cannon 4.
With Havok staying under the boss when it is spawning turrets and firing tends to lock the boss in place. Jumping at certain time when the boss is raising can make the boss give you a push so you meet its level.
With Prometheus something funny happened, the boss lowered when I was under it and Prometheus got stuck/locked under the boss even if it moved and of course all shots (cannon, aerial mines) were hits. This happened while the boss still had those pipes under it. To speed the ending just beat Akmon to the initial door and he won't be a problem.
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I cant believe that picking the last rocket launcher wouldn't speed the ending. I mean it is just letting you fall and then rising a level, but you don't have to wait for the enemies to clear the path and then take them down with the beam sabre. I stopped your movie and tried (non tasing, with mistakes) and I finish the level from there in 22-24 seconds, and you take only 18... so whatever.
I have done two playthroughs in the past, showing what I think are good "routes" or plan or whatever you call it when attempting non tas plays. ie. On the first level, at the beginning I wanted to get pushed by the cannon robot but since I stopped flying I triggered the other guy and had to go from below instead without push, meh. Then we chose to do different things at the greenhouse area I go up you stay at the middle. And near the end you keep going while I pick a new rocket launcher.
Still, these show routes so you might find them useful. Remember that you would do them faster with no mistakes. http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=1033A03D2F53C7B4
Btw, the floating mines can give a huge bonus to speed if they hit you in the right way, to me its luck, but perhaps it is possible for you to manipulate that to get extra time and make something more out of going that path full of mines on level 1.
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lol, yeah, I thought using the tas as base for the speedrun, from the posts the problem is no one will do a tas if the resulting video is expected to be boring, damn. If I really understood how you do this I would do it but I only get recording, rewind and playing back so far.
Well, I've kept working and managed to come with an optimized route although I can't actually tell, it takes into account getting just the required items to complete the route except it doesn't include medikits, I'm stuck here because I know I need about 18 medikits for a "normal game" where I take damage and keep running.
I can pick way less if I let myself die although the death anim takes a lot of time, so now I get the problem that maybe dying is faster than getting a medikit (and the items required to get to it), maybe there are a couple medikits that are faster than dying, etc. halp?
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recording it sped up? :x
Anyone with the skills that may help me get some information from the game? like what should i do to get a bazooka from the trash can at level 1 with better chances that just trying blindly until i get one, or a weapon damage vs monsters table.
My knowledge only includes what I gather from playing and while it is enough in most cases I still dont know if theres a weapon that does way extra damage to the giant toddler, or the first two stages of dr tongues head form, or which of two identical looking routes is longer.
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Hi, I am a fan of this game and have been thinking of doing a non-TAS speed run (all victims).
Since I would like to get the fastest time, I thought of looking here first, but the only tas is 2-player. Anyway, right now i can do a run but I noticed I carry extra items at the final level (specially bazookas), many runs get busted by a victim dying and maybe I took some slower path on a level... I guess you guys can help me on that!
If any TAS-er wants to help (doing the single player tas :) or just feedback ) I would really appreciate it, here is an example run: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=A7579CC873EA7B45
btw, can anyone get the maps as single images quickly? I tried doing it using print screen with an emulator but it took like a week just to get three maps done and it didn't even include the monster positions :(
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The idea of both players overlapping on the final levels would look very cool on the video if done right. I guess each player could take turns having the main focus, specially when killing monsters, while the other game goes a bit transparent like a time trial ghost.
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Hi, just found this site, I haven't watched the movie yet as I would like to finish this game first. Now, -unless I got a different game, even if you had to die once to complete the game you do not have to collect coins, you can get more than enough lives in the first level.
