Posts for hero_of_the_day

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Well, I just tested and found out that the Shinespark to Draygon's lair can be performed without the high jump boots. Using the gravity jump like saturn suggested worked well enough. I think the boots are out, time to revise my route again. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3522/GRAVITY.smv
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Thanks OgreSlayeR, I was actually planning to use this technique after I saw your demonstration a few pages back on this thread.
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Just killed the torizo, now 48 frames ahead of JXQ. I am not really satisfied with the fight though, I get the feeling it could be done faster but I don't know how. Oh well, if I cannot figure it out I will be moving on to Brinstar. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3507/Super%20Metroid%20TAS.smv
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Thanks Saturn! I kinda want the finished run to be a surprise to everyone, so I am hesitant about posting my progress. If there are people who really want to see wips, I guess I don't mind posting them up until a certain point in the game. Maybe I'll post em up until the exit of the wrecked ship. If anyone really wants to see it after that they can PM me. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3495/Super%20Metroid%20TAS.smv Just out of curiosity Saturn which part of my test run contained a useful move? May be helpful to know so I don't accidentally change it :P I am guessing it was the jump across the missle lake after getting the gravity suit?
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Yea OmnipotentEntity I tried that, but it turned out not to be the problem. I had to shift samus over a couple pixels after the door opened to put her into a better position, I managed to save the frame only to end up losing 6 frames in the escape due to bad steam timing. I had to delay those 6 frames intentionally. Well luckily I finished ceres station 1 frame ahead of JXQ, but with a worse escape time, go figure. Since I am aiming for real time, I don't really care about the escape clock's time. Anyway, I am at the morphball and I am 9 frames ahead of JXQ. I know Saturn managed to get there slightly faster, but I decided not to go frame crazy with this run. I would like to finish this run as quickly as possible, since school work may consume my free time in a couple weeks. If I try making this run absolutely perfect, it would take months to complete. I think the quality of my run should at least be comparable to JXQ's run when it is complete.
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Thanks again Saturn, you really know a lot about this game. No doubt your run will blow mine out of the water. So... The difference between using pb/wave combo on ridley and charged spa/wav/ice is 15 seconds. Though if I go with the pb/wave combo, I cannot shinespark though the room before ridley because I will need to pick up 5 pb item drops from the enemies. Not only that, but collecting the second power bomb pack takes over 10 seconds. It may be better to just use charged spa/wav/ice on him. I guess that will require testing when I get to it. As for the progress of my run. Today I started the run and I am past ridley in ceres station, currently 7 frames ahead of JXQ. Unfortunately I lose a frame in the room right after the fight with ridley, and I cannot explain why. Losing this frame is causing bad steam timing in the 3rd room, so I must figure out why I lose one frame to JXQ's run in this room. This is very lame and has consumed a lot of time, once I beat ceres the rest of the run should be quite easy by comparison.
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This run has so many nice sequence breaks and insane tricks (jumping through the wall was awesome!!). I am going to vote yes once again. Well done mack.
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hey Saturn, glad to see you around. Thanks for that information you posted, I think I am going to make some revisions to my route based on it. I was unaware that the shinespark to draygon required the high jump boots. This will slow my route down considerably. I am now thinking that I may pick up the high jump and energy tank before getting the speed booster, and saving kraid for after ridley. I am going to try to get the shinespark to work without the hj boots, since you said you were within 5 frames of getting it. If it doesnt work then I must collect the boots at some time. The route you showed from draygon to tourian was pretty much what I had planned on doing, but just without the space jump. It looked so damn cool when you did it with the space jump. I will do some heavy testing when I get to that area, but you may certainly be correct about collecting the space jump (though it should be close either way). Also Saturn I had some questions for you. How difficult is it to land all 4 hits on ridley with the power/wave combo? Would this in fact be easier with the high jump boots? Do you know approximately how long it would take to land 10 of those on him?
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Thanks everyone, I will get cracking on this in a few days. For those who are curious here is a crappy quick test run up until kraid lair that I made. It should give an idea of the techniques I will use in the wrecked ship. Unfortunately I got crappy item spawns from phantoon, so I had to slow down to pick up energy. I intentionally do things different than JXQ just to try new ideas and such. I got the torizo to spawn items instead of swinging his arm, for example. I stupidly thought that I should get the missle pack before the charge beam, but it turns out I should not have collected it. Since this will be the route that I will be using, I would like to hear some feedback before I start recording the actual run. The real run will be many seconds faster than this test run. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3437/supermetroid_herootd.smv
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moozooh wrote:
Come to think of it, you'll gain about 20 seconds with nearly a half of it lost on doing a gravity jump to get to the exit from Draygon's room, then a bit more later in Maridia, then a bit more for not being able to space boost in the first Crateria room to the left of the ship (which would also allow for going through the bomb-block blockade painlessly without having to stop and recharge), then a bit more in the third metroid room and Tourian eyedoor room. Summed together, I see it about as much as 20 seconds, if not more.
Well I thought of that too, but I had planned on IBJing out of the room. Draygon gives you a large window of down time during his death sequence in which I can climb to the top of the room using bomb jumps. I can open the door at the very first frame possible since I will be waiting at the top platform until his death sequence ends. Unfortunately I may need some of his dropped energy or weapon refills that he leaves behind after his death; this will require further testing to know for sure. Luckily the space jump is only obtainable at the end of the run, so I can test it when I get to it.
moozooh wrote:
Since you said you had some good experience TASing this game, and already made most of the tests and route planning, I'll ask you: how much time will it take you to make this run? As we know, Saturn will be away for his duties for the whole next year, and he'll still need to make about 2/3 of his run after he returns. As we also know, his route will be faster in-game time (which is prevalent in the case with Super Metroid, due to numerous reasons) and more entertaining for the same reasons. You have enough time to make this run and have it published until then, which is also twice as good since having such an outdated run for one of the most popular and TAS-happy games doesn't make any good for the site. So will you do it?
Yes, I would really like to start working on a serious run for this game. I don't think it would take too long either, maybe a month or so. I wanted to wait until JXQ finishes his new run before I started, just in case he found anything new or useful and so I could compare times up until the first super missle pack. Though I may just start it now and hope that the beginning is up to par with JXQ's new run.
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Since the Super Metroid Tricks page is asking for discussions on various routes, I will post a route that I developed and believe to be the fastest route for an any% run aiming for real time. I have done quite a bit of testing and have some good experience TASing this game. My route idea can be found here http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=herootdmetroidroutewv0.jpg. The image shows my intended route and the damage data for all the bosses as well. Some notes on my route: Since this aims for real time, there are some less obvious choices that I made. For example phantoon will be 2 rounded not 1 because collecting an extra missle pack would eat up more time on the overall frame length of the movie. Only 3 packs are required to kill the glass mother brain form. I get the 3 packs which are right in Samus' path anyway. I have done some painful tests and determined that Kraid must be done before ridley, which means no speed boosting in kraid's lair. Having only 1 energy tank is not enough to survive lower norfair. The acid lake requires a 50 hp damage boost + 40 hp hit from the gravity jump. On top of that the shinespark eats up over 70 hp thought the breakable pillars. Doing kraid first will give me an extra energy tank and make lower norfair possible. I am not exactly sure when the Ice beam should be collected, but getting it before the speed booster would require one less visit to the pause menu to turn it off. Getting the Ice beam after killing ridley would require that I go to the pause menu and deactivate it so I can perform the powerbomb/wave combo. High jump boots are en easy item to forget about, they save very little time in the long run and require quite a bit of time to collect. The space jump is also skipped. I requires 20 seconds in real time to get the space jump, but since I am doing draygon last, it would only save a couple seconds in the rest of the run. I intend to shinespark out of the top of maridia and make my way to tourian that way. Plasma beam is also skipped. This item would be collected if I was to fight both ridley and mother brain with it, but since ridley is already dead this item is way less useful. The mother brain fight will be 60 seconds long using charged/wave/spazer/ice which is exactly 40 seconds longer than charged/plasma/wave/ice. The plasma beam requires over 1 minute to collect in real time. The net gain is 20 seconds or so by skipping it. A second power bomb pack must be collected to decrease the length of the ridley fight. I have seen Saturn's teaser avi where he uses the wave/power bomb on ridley, and it seems like a very fast way to take him down. 10 super missles inflicts 6,000 damage to ridley and 10 power/wave combo's does 12,000 damage which is exactly 18,000. Luckily there is a power bomb pack en route to ridley which only requires 10 seconds in real time to collect. This route requires virtually no back tracking at all, which in itself is a gigantic time saver. I have timed the wrecked ship and without the spazer/wave/highjump/speed booster, the net loss is less than 25 seconds. I do have some uncertainty's still. I am torn between collecting ridley's energy tank, or the on that lies in the middle of maridia. The one in maridia does not require any door transitions, but slows down Samus' momentum considerably. On the other hand, the energy tank from ridley would be very useful in having for all the shinesparks that occur between the accent from lower norfair to the fight with draygon. After collecting the wave beam, there is a great little route that leads straight to the lower norfair elevator, by going down after exiting the room leading to the wave beam. May save a few seconds compared to the traditional descent using the ice beam route to lower norfair. Any comment or questions are welcomed. I know Saturn is working on an any% improvement currently, and it will surley be one of the finest runs ever made, but I know his goal is to get the in game timer as low as possible. I would like to see how low the real time can get, which is why I made this route.
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Very nice run, improvements were actually noticeable. I really enjoyed the camera angles you used, especially in the Bowser fights. Voting yes. On a side note, I still believe one day someone will find a way into Bowser 2 without using mips. A run that could do that would obsolete this by 10 minutes. I have done extensive testing but to no avail, maybe this is just a pipe dream of mine.
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Pretty nice improvements over the last run. I think the slow parts of the old run are no longer visible. I am going to vote yes, though I know of one pretty big possible improvement. I should have mentioned this in the other thread earlier, but I didn't know you intended to make a new run so I didn't. I drew a quick picture for you to show where you can save lots of time; http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled1vl1.jpg. Going this route avoids the slow spider webs, and is a generally shorter route anyway.
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This is a very respectable hack, almost seems like an official game. The variety that knuckles provides makes an old game new and exciting again. This movie has great execution and is very entertaining. Voting yes.
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JXQ wrote:
And popularity of the game, yeah it sucks, but it counts for something. Also, I've heard that run of Chrono Trigger is very unoptimized, but I'm not about to watch it to find out.
It may be unoptimized in the traditional sense, but since luck manipulation was near non existent the game could be played using mostly the turbo buttons for every action. Thats how I made the run so quickly and with such a low rerecord count. You call my run very unoptimized, but I dare say it is less improvable than your 100% super metroid run for example. Pressing the correct button on the exact right frame will not add up to much time difference in the long run, maybe a minute or two at most for the entire 4 hour run. I would love to know where you heard that from anyways, since the run did not receive a single no or meh vote.
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great job Xyphys, this run is awesome. Voting yes.
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Thanks Ash, it means a lot to hear that from you. Your run was really darn good and the routes you used in levels 2 and 5 were really well planned. I owe much of this run to you.
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antd wrote:
I'm going to try time trial with MK64. Breaking or matching the current WR's.
Pure awesomeness, thats exactly the type of run this game needs. Do you plan on playing through each and every level one at a time, or just some of the more exciting levels? Either way good luck!
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Post subject: Re: The Silly Fun Awards!
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theenglishman wrote:
Video with lowest rerecords-per-frame ratio Chrono Trigger by hero of the day Despite the fact that this movie is almost four hours longs, somehow HOTD manages to use only 4,932 rerecords, a ratio of approximately one rerecord per 1,920 frames of playing time. This either displays a master ninja ability of perfection or a lazy run. I think those who’ve watched the run knows that it’s the former =P
hahaha. Yes, I win! Thank you theenglishman. The run only took me 6 days to make, and surprisingly it is actually very close to perfect despite the low rerecord count. I have attempted to improve my run with extreme precision only to realize that the amount of time I was saving was very very minimal. I am willing to bet that the run cannot be improved by more than 1-2 minutes unless new fight strategies are discovered.
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Thanks everyone, I am glad you all enjoyed the run. I am sorry for the amount of time spent with the characters overlapping, it was usually done for a good reason though.
JXQ wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you get three different musics to play during the final boss?
I wouldn't be surprised, considering how fast the flying metal dragon went down. I actually do not know though, can anyone verify that 3 different songs are being played at once?
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I agree that the goals are not clear, this should be a run that only goes for high score without regards to the time. Since it is currently the world record high score I vote yes. If a slower movie beats this score I would vote for that to obsolete this movie.
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Good job once again ventuz, yes vote.
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Well done Rikku, 6 seconds is a respectable improvement. It would be nice to know exactly what has been improved over AKA's though. I liked how you used some different camera angles than AKA, it helps to differentiate between the two. Yes vote.
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Easily one of the most entertaining runs ever made. I really enjoyed the published run, but this thing is in a league of it's own. Fractal managed to not only squeeze out every frame this game has to offer, but managed to make it so stylish and action packed as well. Killing so many enemies, switching weapons rapidly, dashing all over, and flying though ladders, it was amazing! Well the run really does deserve a star, because it shows newcomers how to completely own a game without making the game unrecognizable in the process. Star or not great job Fractal, you really know how to put on a good show.
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Your welcome ventuz, and thank you for making this run and mentioning my name. I am very happy you could get some useful information from my test run. The use of the fire weapon was unexpected and seems to be more powerfull than the spread gun, nice choice. The death at the end was a good idea too getting as close to the brain to cause damage more quickly, I never thought of that. Overall it is a short, well made, and entertaining run of a Contra game, therefore it gets a solid yes vote from me.
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