TASVideos

Posted: 9/11/2007 1:55 PM
(Edited: 9/16/2007 8:47 AM)

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

Thank you, hero! I'm glad you liked those new strategies. In fact, I'm almost finished developing a new solid MasaMune strategy which would be faster than your one by about 30 seconds. I'm going to post it within a few days. I wish you would like it too. As for the time difference between my run and yours at that point, it would be around 5 minutes and 30 seconds, though, it is a very rough estimate. Because I was so lazy that I went through events around the trial in a very sloppy way by holdng a fast forward key. When I make a final run, I'll make an effort to provide you a precise time difference on important points. By the way, what would you think if I said I have managed to use a Barrier on Ayla before Lavos uses the first Laser Beams?

Posted: 9/4/2007 10:09 PM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

Thanks, Blaise! Yeah, I'll do my best to discover another suprising time-saving technique. A new Heckran and Zombor strategy worked very well as expected, so I'll release WIP of the test run around those battles. Here it is. Melchior's Hut -> Heckran's cave, The battle of Zenan bridge Please let me explain about the new strategy for those battles. As you can see, a key part of the new strategy is to drop in at Melchior's hut and buy a Red Katana from him. It costs about 700 frames to do that, so it may seem a considerable delay occurs there. However, Red Katana boosts Crono's magic power +2 and his attack power +6, which would be a great timesaver for upcoming boss battles. For example, on the Heckran battle, it allows you to use Antipod once even when he takes the second counter-attacking style, because Red Katana can increase the damage of Slash by about 10pt, and for that reason, Heckran has few HP left at that point. Also, on the Zombor battle, it makes the fight much shorter than to use a Berserker, since Slash from Red Katana does almost the same damage to the bottom body with a physical attack of Crono with a Berserker, and has a shorter animation than that. By the way, I have managed a way to skip most of the conversation between the Chef and the Maid in the Guardia Castle kitchen, which shortens the time to wait at the bottom of the stairs and saves 100 frames at least. It also may add a little bit of entertainment to that event, since it seems like the Chef gives a shout at Crono, who has come all the way to the castle to let him know about starving his brother;) here As usual, if you have any feedback, please feel free to let me know.

Posted: 8/30/2007 3:36 PM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

I just found a new trick at the Residence in Medina Village which makes it possible to escape from the two imps in the middle of the conversation with them and saves about 190 frames. Here.

hero of the day wrote:

Does this mean you will keep the same nizbel strategy?

Yeah, probably. Of course, I'll try hard to see if there is anything new which might be a timesaver on that battle as well as any other boss battles. However, I'll almost certainly stick to your strategy, since it is very well thought out and seems flawless. And also, the Nizbel strategy has been my favorite of all your boss fights since I first watched your run.

Posted: 8/27/2007 2:38 PM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

I have found a strange but funny trick at the End of Time, which turns the boring chat into an entertainment show and also saves a few seconds. Here it is. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/325966897/endoftime.smv As for the progress of my testrun, here is the current status. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/272322866/inichi_chronotrigger_testrun2.smv As usual, I left out a part of being unrelated to my strategy from the movie. If someone likes to see other parts such as the rat chase or the bike race with Johnny, please let me know. I'm willing to post the movie which includes those parts. Actually, this movie is almost the same with my run on SDA except for the better luck manuplation at the fight with 5 Alkalines. The more important thing is that I found addresses which decides the combination of Acids and Alkalines. Here are those addresses. 7E1425,7E1427,7E1429,7E142B,7E142D They take a value of 6 or 7 when you enter the room to fight them, and if the value is 6, an Acid appears, and if the value is 7, an Alkaline appears. That is, you have to manuplate the luck so that all addresses take the value of 7 in order to see 5 Alkaline appears. And fortunately, it's quite easy to do that luck manuplation, since they have the same value every one minute. Here is the list of all combinations of the values in one minute.

66666,66666,66666,66667,66677,66776,67767,77676,76766,67667
76676,66766,67667,76677,66777,67777,77776,77767,77676,76766
67667,76677,66777,67777,77777,77776,77767,77676,76766,67666
76667,66677,66776,67767,77676,76767,67676,76766,67666,76667
66676,66766,67666,76667,66677,66777,67776,77766,77666,76666
66667,66676,66767,67676,76767,67677,76776,67766,77666,76666

As you can see, it is only once a minute that they all take the value of 7.　Perhaps, there are several errors in the above list, but that won't be much problem, I think. Also, as for the later three boss battles, Heckran, Zombor and Masa&Mune, I am planning to use somewhat different strategies from the one hero and I used. I guess the new strategies could save 10 seconds in total at least. Anyway, some test will be needed to find it out.

Posted: 8/22/2007 1:50 PM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

Thank you hero! As you said, one more critical hit from Crono keeps Guardian reviving from the bits and saves another about 450 frames. Even though it seems rather difficult to get it, I'll give it a try. Regarding the escape from the castle, it would be extremely difficult to manage it. However, I believe it is well worth trying, since what you manage to escape from the castle means that you also may be able to escape from a lot of similiar events that the trigger varies such as the fight with three Blue Imps, which saves a chunk of time. I'll seriously look into that.

Do you plan on making the entire run a test run, then starting over to make a final run? Did you find my memory watch file to be of any use?

No, not really. However, it would be nearly the entire run. Otherwise, I may come to a dead end somewhere in the run and wind up redoing the run. It's best to be on the safe side, I guess. Of course. Those two boss strategies are all thanks to your enemy HP addresses. Actually, the damage that I give to Guardian is exactly 1200, which is due to those addresses. Clock addresses are also useful because one of my goal is to break my in-game record on SDA. I'll often pay attenion to them when I start to make a final run.

Posted: 8/21/2007 1:38 PM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

Thanks all! Now I'll post the progress of the testrun. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/461209519/inichi_chronotrigger_testrun1.smv Highlight: -A new trick to pass the second guard without knocking him out or fighting. -The shorter Dragon Tank battle without using any Tonic. -A new trick to pass the two guards by the stairs on the first floor without stopping. -A new faster route in Lab 16. -A shopping in Arris Dome, two Shelters and an Auto Gun. -The shorter Guardian battle because of Lucca's high attack power. In this movie, I make a mistake of not stealing a Mid Tonic from the first guard, which will certainly be critical in the Heckran battle. So I'll probably make another savestate with that Mid Tonic and resume the testrun. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Posted: 8/15/2007 11:57 AM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

Thank you everyone for your comments!! That means a lot to me. Through making this run, I have developed a deeper understanding of the game and improved my TAS skills, which definitely would be useful for my CT any% run.

Posted: 8/12/2007 12:10 AM
(Edited: 8/12/2007 12:45 AM)

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

Thanks hero and Saturn! And thanks for sharing lots of useful memory addresses. Especially, the enemy's HP addresses would be very helpful to optimize each battle. Actually, a key factor behind the new strategy is the two battles in Guardia Forest. You can see that I delay the timing to use the Cyclone at the first battle, and I select the enemy that Rucca attacks as Crono's target at the second battle, both of which is essential to generate the favorable enemy's action and the repeating critical hits at the cathedral. Other than those above, I change the battle mode, the battle speed, the party's order and Crono's equipment to set the best condition of each battle there. As for making a TAS, I actually have been very interested in it for a month or two, but, I had second thoughts about it, because I was not sure if I have enough skill to make a TAS which meets the quality that TASVideos requires. However, just now, your positive words helped me make up my mind. I will make a TAS of Chrono Trigger any% run. Regarding the issue of which ROM to use, Japanese or English, I use the English version. The reason is simple: TASVideos aims for the entertainment, and an unknown language for most people, Japanese, would easily take the fun out of run. Besides, the differences between both versions are very little other than the text speed. As for the possibilities to beat my run at SDA, I think it is highly possible, since, as someone said, my run isn't optimized at all. For now, I try to see if my strategy on console, especially the Lavos one, work all right without using an in-game reset to change RNG. At the same time, I try to find the best possible movement at every single event such as the rat chase. Any ideas and imputs will always be appreciated.

Posted: 8/11/2007 4:07 AM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

Everybody, I have found a pretty good new strategy around the fight with Yakra, which would definitely be useful for hero or anyone's future Trigger run. I made a demo movie so that you can easily see how the new strategy is. Here it is. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/360133972/inichi_new%20strategy%20around%20the%20Yakra%20battle.smv When you compare the same section, this movie is about 30 seconds faster than hero's run and roughly 25 seconds faster than my run. Also, I tried to optimize every event in this movie as much as I can, and I think the movement I did to optimize could be helpful for any runner as well. Maybe, I will post more detail of the strategy later. Also, I have to mention that I found a way to be close to escape from Mom. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1208606651/escape%20from%20mom.smv In this movie, it's only 2 pixels until Crono manages to escape from Mom. This is the limit I have done so far, and I actually once gave it up as hopeless. However, I thought it over and now I'm positive about the possibilities, since I realized I have seen a lot of impossible things turn into possible on this site. I wish the best luck for anyone trying to manage it. If you can, it enables you to save about 400 frames, so it is worth trying, I think.

Posted: 5/13/2007 12:47 PM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

Great work Motogiri! And thanks for making a TAS of one of my favorite action game. When I was a kid, I would play this game again and again even after I beat it. I really enjoyed your run.Voted yes. By the way, are you from Japan, by any chance? I also write comments about the run in Japanese. motogiriさん、素晴らしい動画をありがとう。サンドラの大冒険は私が子供の時、何度も何度も繰り返してプレーした、とても大切なゲームです。多分実家には、パスワードをメモしたボロボロになった紙が今でも残っていると思います。あなたの動画は本当に楽しめました。また、次の動画も楽しみにしています。

Posted: 5/1/2007 12:09 PM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

Perhaps, you can skip getting Swallow. I have thought that bigger damage of Confuse is necessity to beat Lavos Core until recently. So, I went all the way to get Swallow spending more than 1 minute and 30 seconds in my run. However, as I wrote above, I found it is not very necessary. Of course, skipping Swallow will make the some form of Shell Lavos and Retinite battle a longer. So I'm not sure if it would work well, but it would be worth considering at least.

Posted: 4/27/2007 4:19 PM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

hero of the day wrote:

Just watched the lavos battle and some of the other boss battles. The strategies are ground breaking. He consistently changes to battle speed gauge setting in order to achieve better enemy attacks, which is something I completely overlooked in my run. I will probably spend the next few weeks slowly studying what he does in his run. From what I have seen so far, there is not much room for improvement in his strategies. This is a truly genius speed run. Great work inichi! Thanks for making this run, and thanks for mentioning my name in the credits.

When I started Trigger run first,　I just tried to keep up with your run for each section.　By doing this, I learned how to avoid fixed encounts, why you used that strategy in any boss battle and finally was able to make somewhat new strategies in some part. So nothing makes me happier than to hear you say that. Hero, you don't have to worry about someone's thoughtless words. Because everyone knows how epoch-making things you did on Trigger run. It's true that I shortend your record by more than 20 minutes. But, as I said before, without borrowing your great strategy in most boss battles until Magus, I could never have achived such a record. So I should be the one thanking you. After all, I'm only standing on the shoulder of giants. Anyway, now that my run is uploaded on SDA, I'd like to be help of your run to optimize it as well as I can. For the time being, I put here some improvment I found after I submitted the run. Segment 26 Exchange a kind of enemies in 5th battle with one in 6th battle. In Chrono Trigger, when you learn a new technique, the more you get TP, the less required TP to learn next technique is.　The enemies I fight in Tylano Lair is two kinds. Some has 18 TP, and the other has 22 TP. Unfortunately, in 5th battle, I fighted one which has less TP, then Ayla learned Tail Spin. That is why Ayla's TP lackd 3 for learning Dino Tail in my run, and I had no choice but to fight 3 Mutants in Lab 16. It would be prevented from happening if I fighted enemies which has more TP in 5th battle.(10 seconds) Segment 28 Use Robo instead of Marle in the Tylano battle. Strategy: Use Twister 2 times, and Azala falls.　After Tylano's defence weakens, use Twister 4 times, then Tylano breath out the fire. Wait until Tylano's defence weakens again, then use Twister 3 times. Perhaps, a few phisical attack will be needed. Less number of attacks would save a time. (10-15 seconds?) Segment 33 Replace some of Crono's confuse with some Ayla's Dino Tail　in the Lavos Core battle. In fact, the insane luck and accurate key responce is needed to reach the Lavos Core battle and the center bit changes the ages in the ideal order. I was so afraid to spoil the best chance that I chose killing the right bit before it revives the center bit as a safe move. But, There are some times between it relives and uses Dreamless. so it can be replaced some of Crono's confuse with some Ayla's Dino Tail. Much less number of attacks will surely save a lot of time. Besides, Crono's second Confuse to the center bit is an unnecessary attack by my mistake. I think it is segment 33 that most improvement could be found in my run. (20-30 seconds?) On a final note, I think you definitely will break my in-game time record though the English version has less text speed than the Japanese one. Considering some improvement being found in Saturn's run even within 10 minutes again and again, It is really natural. If you have any questions about my run, feel free to ask me.

Posted: 4/25/2007 5:43 PM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

Saturn, did you try to equip Crono with Shiva Edge? Shiva Edge does 4 times damage at critical, which is over 2500. It means you don't have to have Marle attacks the left core if you are able to get a critical hit on the first attack of Crono. It surely will save a time. It occurred to me when I read your explanation about the importance of Crono's critical hit. Sorry I'm late to give a suggestion. Thanks for your consideration.

Posted: 4/20/2007 10:02 AM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

Saturn, have you already finished the run? It's awesome. I've never imagined my suggestion could save more than 5 seconds. This time, I wasn't able to find anything to improve in it. I'm glad to have contributed to be a part of your run. I used this trick, which turns Battle Gauge Speed from 1 to 2, in my last run. It makes a sufficient space between Lavos's fatal attacks, which enables even my low level party with few healing items to beat Lavos.

Posted: 4/16/2007 11:06 AM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

This is my first time to come to Workbench forum. So just now I finished watching your video, though a little too late. It's a nice run! I'm ashamed to say, I had assumed that it is necessary to talk to every developer for seeing the ending before I watched this video. Of course, I will vote yes. But, I found a minor improvement in Lavos Battle. If you set Battle Gauge Speed 2, you can use Luminaire twice and kill Lavos's hands before they use sickle attacks. Because the battle takes a bit longer than usual, I'm not sure if it could make whole time faster, though. You may want to try it out.

Posted: 4/1/2007 9:27 PM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

Amazing! Even though this video is short, it reminds me of the excitement I felt when I watched your last run first. I have thought nobody but you could push Chrono Trigger run to the limit. So I'm glad to know you determined to start the new run. I'm really looking forward to see your run. So I will do my best to finish my run for you.

Posted: 3/27/2007 6:22 PM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

I just realized that this new strategy will obtain an ending that will not require any additional input from the controller. This means that the actual real time input will end right at the final hit on lavos, which will save so much real time over the ending that I obtained in my run.

Yes. As you said, any additional input is not required in the ending, "what the prophet seeks". There is Magus's short speech last. But it flows on its own. Ultimagarden, to which I submitted the report about my record, defines the ending as the movie when the ending is over. So, 3:49 was the moment "The End" was shown. If I followed another definition of the ending, my record would be around 3:45.

"what the prophet seeks" is one of the coolest endings in the game, and contains an awesome quote at the end.

I agree. This ending is so cool. I really wanted to use Magus.

Posted: 3/25/2007 6:07 AM
(Edited: 3/25/2007 9:02 AM)

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

I am planning to redo the run, for I found some improvement through the investigation.I assume the new strategy is about 5 minutes faster than the old one under the same conditions. This time, I am going to record my whole run into VHS and send it to SDA.I used a turbo controller in the last run. Since SDA is not allowed to use it, the new record may be almost the same with the old one. But I think publishing my run is more imoprtant than the time.Because I believe the video of my run would be helpful for TAS to make faster video, whether its version will be Japanese or English. I made a new topic at the forum at SDA.If you are intersted in my run, please visit it!

Posted: 3/11/2007 11:06 AM

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inichi

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player (48)

Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan

Hi! I'm inichi, who set up 3:49 in game completion time by using console.I'm very surprised to see that you discuss my record and try to translate my Japanese report into English.Though my English is poor, I'll be pleased to answer any questions you may have about my record and report. To hero of the day Without watching your run, I would never try to challenge Chrono Trigger Time Attack.Without using your beautiful strategy in most Boss battles until Magus, I couldn't set up this record. I appreciate you.

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