For some reasons, this movie seems to out-perform Zero Mission "100%". It's imperfect as the author described, though.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
how to fix whinning monitors (works just as well with whinning sharks):
I guess you just suggest that erokky (and maybe LagDotCom a well) should buy a new one? o_O
I used to have that problem, and now I just use an old monitor instead... Yeah, because I punched/hammered the whinning monitor, and it started to display random black vertical stripes instead... X(
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I think Metroid "any%" falls into the category of "Skipped Games". The two stars can go to the two "100%"s, but...
Since we can have at least two stars for Metroid games, I feel that Metroid Fusion "100%" can compete with Metroid Zero Mission "100%". Although it is slower-paced and not so Metroidish to Metroid fans, the movie is still good for a Metroid-ness, and we can expect that the improved submission by BioSpark will be accepted. It shows the "linar" Metroid with an annoying computer and has better graphics in my opinion (despite the ugly Samus sprite).
BTW, Metroid 2 shouldn't be given a star, because the game's objectives (to kill every single metroid) are very repetitive and thus neither of the movies can be entertaining enough.
Baxter wrote:
Megaman (1 Star)Mega Man 1
Mega Man 2
It's a tough choice. However, I think Mega Man 1 is better because it shows more glitches besides zipping than Mega Man 2, and Mega Man 2 has some waiting time before every zipping.
Baxter wrote:
Zelda (1 Star)Legend of Zelda
A Link to the Past
Links Awakening DX
No comments this time.
Baxter wrote:
Castlevania (2 Stars)Castlevania
Castlevania: HoD
Castlevania: CotM
Super Castlevania IV
Ninja Five-0: Not a perfect choice because of the annoying background music tracks and slow horizontal movements compared to fast vertical movements, which feel very weird and not so good.
Umihara Kawase: Hmm, this game indeed has the most realistical wire physics, but it only has the wire physics and no more. (No, never consider about the "sight seeing" movie, it's has too long waiting time.)
Spiderman 3: The character uses wires more often to pull himself up than to swing. The downside is that it is too frantic and it can be hard for the movie viewer to follow because the direction of spiderman's movement changes every split second and the sound effect forces the viewer to recatch it. I guess this is the most brain-power-comsuming wire TAS.
Bionic Commando: This can have the same problem as Spiderman 3 but not so heavily. It might be worse because one who isn't familiar with this game won't tell why the character is going to and fro those bases on the tactical map.
Which one should be given the star? I'll forward the question to others...
Baxter wrote:
Special concept (2 Stars)MMX+MMX2
Kings Bounty
Nightmare on Elmstreet “4player”
Monopoly
River City Ransom
I haven't watched MMX+MMX2.
King's Bounty is a bad choice because it show actually no more gameplay than just "select to win". This is quite different from HoD "Maxim warped"/Mario 64 "0 stars"/etc that is action-packed from the start to the end. I felt fooled when I watched this movie the first time. So, there's the risk that a new comer may also feel fooled the first time he/she watches this. I suggested it on Page 3 just for sarcasm (you saw my comments in the parentheses).
DrJones wrote:
In addition, I suggest 3-players "Lost Vikings" as an alternative to 4-players "Nightmare on Elmstreet".
Sounds a good idea.
I guess Monopoly may be a little better than King's Bounty, but... I haven't watched it, either.
River City Ransom is debatable. We may need a stared beat-em-up for variety, we may need some alternative goals than "aims for fastest time possible". However, I think the goal of this run is a little arbitrary and most importantly, likely to be acheivable in an unassisted run.
Baxter wrote:
NES games (3 Stars)Ninja Gaiden 2
Darkwing Duck
Mega Man 5
Gimmick!
Super Mario Bros 2
Journey to Silius
Batman
Arkanoid “Warpless”
Battle of Olympus
Legend of Zelda 2
Battletoads “2 player warpless”
Argh, should I refrain again? No, I want to comment anyway this time.
Ninja Gaiden 2 isn't very unique among sidescroll platformers. And I think platform shooters are generally better choices than platform slashers due to more versatile movements and more flexible luck manipulation and lag reduction. It should be dropped as a result, and we can choose from some platform shooters if we really want.
Mega Man 5 is similar to Gimmick!, both ride something to travel faster than to walk. Umm, it seems that Mega Man 5 can have a chance due to its versatility, although it's a popular game while Gimmick! isn't.
Arkanoid "Warpless" is very impressive and is better than other TAB (correct?) games like Tetris. This should be stared anyway for variety.
Battle of Olympus doesn't suffer from background refreshing problem while Legend of
Zelda 2 "Warped" does, and we don't lack glitched warps. And the most important thing is that BoO is a less popular game than LoZ2 is. I think BoO can be stared for its typical "left+right" glitch.
Baxter wrote:
SNES games (2 Stars)Super Mario World 2: Yoshi’s Island
Rockman and Forte "100 CDs"
Sparkster
Donkey Kong Country 1 any%
Biker Mice from Mars
The Mask
I suggest Rockman & Forte "100 CD" for its superb zipping and route planning.
The Mask is an extremely fast-paced platform game with annoying clocks and long final boss fight. However, it feels inferior to Sparkster. I think Sparkster is the better choice, although they are not very similar to each other.
I haven't watched Donkey Kong Country 1 "any%", but I doubt if it can be more entertaining than Donkey Kong Country 3 "any%" that is boring.
Biker Mice from Mars is an awesome racing movie that suffers from camera problem. However I doubt without that problem, it might look more confusing. Hmm, I think Excitebike is already good. But if we can afford more stars, Biker Mice from Mars may take one.
Baxter wrote:
Genesis (1 Star)Gunstar Heroes “ 2 player”
Ecco (which run?)
Dynamite headdy
Golden Axe
Comix Zone
I think we need at lest one stared two-player movie, and Gunstar Heroes “ 2 player” seems to be the only good choice so far. Since it's well accepted and enjoyed, I think you can star it.
Ecco? No. People not familiar with the game won't know what is going on for more than half an hour.
Dynamite Headdy is fairly a good game, and the movie is very entertaining. But I think Gunstar Heroes “ 2 player” is better...
Golden Axe is a typical beat-em-up game. But I haven't watched the movie...
Comix Zone is a unique beat-em-up game. But...
Baxter wrote:
N64 (1 Star)Majora’s Mask
Goldeneye
Mischief Makers
Super Mario 64 120 star
Super Mario 64 "120 star" should be dropped for now.
I haven't watched the whole Mischief Makers due to annoying lags, but I think it fails due to its 2D essence, and we need to star a 3D movie...
The rest N64 games are up to you, since I haven't watched them.
EDIT: Ecco & Golden Axe.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I can agree with both (funny?), if adelikat referred to the NES ones.
It is somewhat illogical indeed, although I find it probably illogical for different reasons. At page 3: klmz wrote:
OK:
* Arkanoid (awesome)
** Warpless
* NES Battle of Olympus (better than LoZ2 warped in my opinion)
* NES Castlevania
* NES Legend of Zelda (Can't you believe, huh?)
** Either
* NES Legend of Zelda 2
** Glitched
...
So it is true that you said that you preferred BoO over LoZ2... but you still suggested LoZ2, and you suggested LoZ1. So did you completely change your mind all of a sudden of both NES Zelda movies?
In that post, my "OK" was restricted to mean "acceptable" instead of "with no doubt". And I merely used to think that LoZ2 was acceptable although it felt inferior to BoO, until I realized that we wouldn't need two very similar movies in this category right now. I didn't change my mind of LoZ1 as I thought it was acceptable.
I'm sorry for the confusion.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
Wow. It really rocks.
I have nothing more to say now.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
SMW
If only one star can be given, just make it to the shortest one
You know that just seeing Mario flying all the time can be boring. I forgot to mention that I haven't watched the "small only" movie. Maybe it has less flying.
Baxter wrote:
Some things pretty much everyone agrees on sofar:
- SMB3 any%
Just as I've stated before, the autoscrollers are not entertaining enough to everyone. This item should be replaced with:
- At least 1 Mario 64 run
AKA wrote:
Legend of Zelda: Great example of luck manipulation and health management
adelikat wrote:
Don't Star
any Zelda movies
I can agree with both (funny?), if adelikat referred to the NES ones. Especially, Legend of Zelda 2 is out-performed by Battle of Olympus. I don't want to comment on non-warped ALttP and those N64 ones.
EDIT:
I can agree with both (funny?), if adelikat referred to the NES ones.
I realize this sentence is illogical. So just ignore it.
EDIT 2: Thanks for the advice, Fabian! Not now, though.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
Darkwing Duck: Yet another prime example of what a TAS is. Shows insane luck manipulation, accurate movements and hopping simalar to the SMW run. It also has a clever touch of using the hopping to dance to the music.
What about this as well?
"Journey to Silius: Yet another prime example of what a TAS is. Shows insane luck manipulation, accurate movements* and lag redution with bullets everywhere different from many other runs. It also has a clever touch of using the D-pad to dance to the music." [/biassed :)]
* Note: Critizen needed.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
First of all, most stars are of the popular franchises. Are these really more suitable for TASing, or is this just our familiarity with these games that affects our judgement? Can a game being well known be a reason counted as something positive, and a possible reason for giving it a star, or is this something which counts negative?
I think I can answer the last question. A game being well known can be positive for a star if it is one of the large nominees in a certain category as more stars will be allocated in that category and people will firstly consider which not to give a star to, while negative if it has very few but matched star competitors in the certain category as less stars will be allocated there and people will firstly consider which not to give a star to.
The three Sonic stars
The fact: I haven't watched Sonic 2 yet.
Sonic Advance 2 actually shows the gameplay. Sonic 3 is ballanced and preferred (by me).
The three NES Megaman stars
I can't tell which one is more suited, Mega Man 1 or 2. But I think Mega Man 5 can be dropped because this time we consider which one to be dropped in the first place, and I believe there can be other not-so-well-unknown games can be the more suited nominees.
However, I think "100% CD" Rockman & Forte for SNES shows more and better zipping than either Mega Man 1 or 2.
Super Mario 64
The 0 star run:
Bezman wrote:
It's short, sure, but action-packed from start to finish. From the moment the game starts, incredible tricks are pulled off that I never thought possible. Ricocheting through the levels, the entire movie beggars belief.
I agree to this statement.
The 120 star run just shows less TAS-ness and should be improved. However, the star can be kept.
SMW
If only one star can be given, just make it to the shortest one.
SMW2
IIRC, I've watched it long, long before, while I can't recall anything remarkable in it. No more comments at the moment.
SMB1
Unfortunately, it seems that I have to refrain from making comments on it. :(
SMB2(U)
I refrain again. I could be biased as I disliked the gameplay changes from the original. :(
SMB3
The autoscrollers just weight too much to stay entertaining in the warped run. The "no-warp" run can be OK.
The two Zelda stars
They can be top games to play, but can they also be too games to watch? I have no ideas.
AKA has a good point on LoZ, though.
Excitebike
The fact: I haven't watched Super Mario Kart.
A nice and short run, with a game-breaking glitch noticable to anyone who has ever played the game once. Biker Mice From Mars suffers from the camera problem, but it shows better TAS-ness. I can't tell which one is more suited for a star (if only one can be given to).
Castlevania
I like watching the movie. "Almost all aspects of TAS power are shown in this movie" sounds great for it to keep its star.
Again, it seems that I have to refrain from making comments on the GBA ones due to possible bias. :(
Umihara Kawase
The "sight-seeing" movie is too long. The short one is OK, because this game features really good physics, and the movie utilizes it very well, although it isn't more entertaining than "Channel X" Rockin' Kats in my opinion.
What about Bionic Commando, Ninja Five-0 or Spiderman 3? This is hard to tell.
"any%" MetroidBaxter wrote:
Besides being a very well known game, does it have much going for it? It has some major skips, but are these particularly interesting to watch? Aren't there other Metroid runs that are a lot faster paced and more suitable for a star?
EDIT: I keep this question as-is.
Gradius
We need to show this aspect of TAS. So just keep the star there.
Mega Man X & X2
We need to show this aspect of TAS. We don't have better movie than this as Megaman 3456 can be confusing. So just keep the star there.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
Being a fish actually made up for the time taken to get the Green Crystal! The total savings appears to be roughly 1400 frames over the fish-less test run that I haven't posted here, but stuck with no tail or dorsal fin evolution (which would probably be later replaced anyway).
Hmm, I think you can get as full-powered as an amphibian can be before fighting King Bee.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
No doubts:
* NES Megaman 3+4+5+6 (I haven't watched Megaman X1+X2 yet.)
Unfortunately, people I show that video to will often sit and argue with me that it isn't played with one controller. For this reason I think it would be better to keep X1/X2 on the list and perhaps link to Megaman 3-6 in the movie description. I do think X1/X2 is a good candidate for the list because it is an interesting demonstration even 3 years after creation.
Links have been added now. :)
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
My list (only a few of those I've watched):
No doubts:
* NES Excitebike
* NES Gradius (When you see some boring autoscrollers, watch this instead.)
* NES Megaman (zipping)
* NES Megaman 2 (zipping)
* NES Megaman 3+4+5+6 (I haven't watched Megaman X1+X2 yet.)
* NES Nightmare on Elm Street
** 4 players
* SNES Rockman & Forte (zipping)
** 100% CD
* SNES Super Mario World
* SNES Super Metroid
** 100%
** Whichever shorter
* GEN King's Bounty (Watch this and learn how you are fooled.)
* GEN Sonic 3 & Knuckles (Sonic zipping)
* N64 Mario 64
** 0 star
** 120 stars
OK:
* Arkanoid (awesome)
** Warpless
* NES Battle of Olympus (better than LoZ2 warped in my opinion)
* NES Castlevania
* NES Legend of Zelda (Can't you believe, huh?)
** Either
* NES Legend of Zelda 2
** Glitched
* NES Metroid
** Any%
* NES Super Mario Bros 3 (Can't you believe? Simply due to those long autoscrollers.)
** Warped
* SNES Biker Mice from Mars ("fastest thing next to Harley's Comet")
* SNES Sparkster (with supercharges)
* GBA Castlevania: whatsoever
** Glitched ones
* GBA Sonic Advance 2
Love can save:
* NES Marble Madness
* NES Snake Rattle n Roll (human-impossible maneuver in pseudo-3D world)
* NES Super Mario Bros (People hate this.)
* SNES Mask, The (superspeedy but too obscure)
* SNES Umihara Kawase (I don't think it's better than Rockin' Kats "Channel X" for NES.)
* GBA Metroid: whatsoever (pale compared to other similar movies)
* More skipped-game movies
Not suited, no joke:
* SNES Donkey Kong Country 3 (considerably boring while so long)
Conclusion: Megaman PWNZ LOL!
EDIT: Added more comments and promoted Sparkster.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
So, have we reached the conclusion that this game is not suited for a speed-oriented TAS due to lack of entertainment and no improvements that can be made to help this?
EDIT: However, some less entertaining movies have been accepted before. This one may be given the chance if either judges don't consider accepting those as a mistake, or they just don't care about repeating that.
EDIT 2: Well, this movie is not so bad.
EDIT 3: With my 5.5/9.5 this movie can be considered. lol
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
Uhhh, am I the only one who wonders why the background colours of headings were removed?
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
Yes. However, it's one of the few movies that can be considered "(nearly) perfect", which is TAS-unique.
I think the fact that one can somewhat say that SMB is (nearly) perfect is a good reason not to give it a star. If most of the game is like an autoscroller, and the end of the stages have horrible frame rules, if the game has no lag, and little to no luckmanipulation, then yeah, it might be closer to perfection than other runs... but imo therefore not necessarily more interesting. I would say this could be a reason not to give it a star.
I can see quite a number of people think that SMB is simply super zzz bros, as it is just a simple and pure platform game. Hmm, maybe I was just poisoned with SMB1 in my childhood.
As to luck manipulation, there's a major one: Bullet Bill for the trick in 8-2.
Baxter wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I love your TASes... but I think for instance your Little Samson TAS would be far better suited for a star than SMB1.
Wow, thanks!
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
Jumping attack looks cool, but it's always a waste of frames, even with the killing blow...
I guess you may try jump-killing an opponent when you'll have to spend some frames in manipulating the next opponent.
EDIT: In fact, to waste some frames earlier for variety may help you to save some frames later.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
There are noticeable amounts of TASing in SMB, but the gains are slight; each thing that a viewer might recognize as "hunh, that's kinda weird" is gaining only a couple dozen frames at the very most.
Yes. However, it's one of the few movies that can be considered "(nearly) perfect", which is TAS-unique.
Derakon wrote:
Compare that to the gains in Mario 64 where a level portal is bypassed, humanly impossible paths are used through many levels, and so on, and the difference that TASing makes is quite clear.
Mario 64 deserves a Star, but that doesn't prevent other runs from getting Stars.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
That makes sense, but only for games where tool-assistance is prominent. If we take games like SMB or SMB 3, where most tricks are the same as in the up-to-date unassisted runs of the same games, the factor of tool-assistance is considerably less prominent. If you take an uninitiated person and show them the current SDA efforts, they'll be surprised just the same, because they likely wouldn't immediately see the difference anyway.
Hmm, defending my SMB TAS, I don't think either the flagpole glitch or the long wait in 8-2 can be ignored. Oh, I don't think the current SDA efforts are up-to-date either, as I've discussed with andrewg. :P
TODO: more
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I say give half to xkeeper and half to adelikat and see if we can get awesome creative tension going.
I say we make a reality show of it. Invite Nach, Warp, AngerFist, JXQ, adelikat, Xkeeper and myself to a luxurious mansion on an exotic island and have us fight for it in a number of elaborate competitions, survivor style.
Uh, what if it ends in a draw?
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I guess it's possible to achieve variety without losing a single frame, but I can be wrong.
EDIT: Hmm, 5.5 for Entertainment. It looks repetetive. However it's short enough to avoid being fast-forwarded.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
Hmm, I gave up this project as soon as I thought I wouldn't figure out the optimal evolution strategy in the first two chapters. Wow, great find on the bubble walls in Ocean of Terodus, FatRatKnight!
EDIT: Hmm...
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
You'll have a new job? All right.
Hmm, I don't think that myself can do any of these.
Talking about the site history thing, the current history page isn't complete yet... I guess you'd better complete it yourself, as you know it the best.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I finally had some time to work on dega again... I made a new release fixing a few emulation bugs: a minor one affecting the vertically scrolling stages in Rygar, and a more significant bug that corrupted enemy sprites in Golden Axe Warrior.
The cause?
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
The only significant new thing is that movie screenshots can be annotated with a description, explaining what happens in the screenshot. This will be used as a caption to wherever the screenshot is used to decorate text.
EDIT: Actually, this part I already decided to publish, so editors can start adding descriptions to screenshots… They are shown only at NewMovies.html for now.
How can we add descriptions to existing screenshots? Do we have to replace the old files with new files to add descriptions?
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
An excelent point, by this fellow:
zggzdydp wrote:
"do you want the movie get published" is better than "do you like watching"
Hey! It was my point! I told him that!
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
